Craig wrote:RRconway wrote:Craig wrote:AlexC wrote:I'm with DanO where over-powerful unions and shoddy goods are concerned, Morris Marina anyone?! We still have one or two dinosaurs out there running rings around us however, and Bob Crow is perhaps the most successful. I was amazed to learn that he had won the London underground train drivers around 55K salaries and other benefits for basically as far as I can see pushing a lever forward to go when a green light shows, and pulling it back to stop when a red light comes on. I stand to be corrected just exactly how the lever works however! The sooner we have driverless trains (like the DLR for instance) on the underground the better.
And Google the Paris Metro crash to see what happens when you get it wrong. Not saying the salary is not high, but we're constantly told pay is linked to responsibility. If you can trouser multi million pound bonuses for handling large sums of money it stands to reason a job where multiple deaths are probable if you mess up wages will be high. Besides LU's turnover is massive, they're hardly a struggling company. Doesn't seem unreasonable those that work there get a share of it.
I'm sorry, responsibility?
Maybe but its relative.
They don't have to steer the train, all they have to do is make it go forward,(in response to a light that tells them when to go and stop and slow down), and not trap people in the doors!!!!
As an A licenced aircraft engineer holding ratings on 3 of BAs types, I have to work outside in all weathers, all year round, at all hours of the 24 available.
I certify the routine aircraft inspections on a daily basis including airframe, engine and all internals with no one required to check after me.
I work for one of the UKs industry leaders with the benefit of one of the better wage structures, and if you take out my shift pay (which is payed for anti-social hours not responsibility), I do not see 33k a year.
There are engs with cheaper carriers earning less and with more responsibility.
Our B licence holders don't earn 55k.
Train drivers and responsibility, it doesn't add up.
The salary may well be too high, I didn't disagree with that, and other jobs may well be underpaid and undervalued for what they do, I don't disagree with that either but that's a different issue. LU drivers may bwell be overpaid that's a matter of interpretation but to say the job doesn't carry large responsibility is just not true. If a driver messes up, he will go to prison. This has been demonstrated on many occasions and as for train driving being easy it's far from it, it's a very skilled profession. I can't speak for LU directly as it's not my area, but my Grandad worked for BR for 45 years at a time when pay was less than sparkling. He had to know every route, gradient, wheelslip point, signal location etc as overrunning a signal once would lose him his job at best and kill people at worst. It's not a car. You don't just put the brakes on and it stops it needs to be calculated exactly. Leave it too late and you're in trouble. Simple on paper, but stopping distance of approx 1 mile on the main line railway, with a heavy train, poor visibility and wet rails? And you don't see any responsibility in that?
To clarify,my last line "it doesn't add up", I am refering to the fact that whatever responsibility a train driver has, I don't believe that the weight of that responsibility is so much greater to other professions mentioned here, that it translates into the huge difference in pay compared to others who have the same or greater amount of responsibility.
I didn't say I don't see any responsibility, I said its relative.
FYI, if an aircraft engineer messes up he will go to prison also.
The fact remains that if you look at most other professions who put their own lives on the line, or are responsible for the lives of countless others I think you will find that 55K is not proportional to those other jobs, for example, health care professionals, firefighters, police officers, soldiers, bus drivers, and, yes, aircraft engineers and cabin crew.
Even flight crew pay is slowly being reduced. In some smaller operators it is far less than I earn. The big carriers are unfortunately the exception to this generalisation....doh.
Why do you say that the fact that other jobs may be underpaid or undervalued is a different issue. I didn't say either of those things. Maybe it is because it is easier to say other professions are underpaid, than to substantially justify the overpayment of the train drivers.
One more thing, I'm sure your grandfather lost out really. When he started driving it was certainly far more dangerous than it is today, he didn't have all the modern safety features that adorn the trains of today.
Development means that rail transport has become safer over the years so why then should the drivers be compensated for the reduction in risk that I'm sure your grandfather experienced? I'm sure that many of the issues that you have said your grandfather had to deal with, are today monitored my myriad of electronic devices, if not controlled completely by them in an emergency or quality lapse.
I hope that clarifys my point.