Alan Davies - is he right?

[DerekF]

Alan Davies has made some comments relating to Liverpool not playing on 15th April. Does he have a point?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/10/alan-davies-liverpool-hillsborough-disaster


It was an awful disaster but surely the thing to do now is move on.

[aviodromefriend]

Ah, the self-proclamed top sport athletes in football can't play a match after three days since their last match.

Maybe they should take a look at the schedules in the mayor US sports, sometimes up to two matches a day in MLB, and coping with jetlag too. After that they should just be ashamed of themselves.

BTW in two legs the chances for Chelsea against Barcelona are close to 0 anyway. Even if these were the only games for Chelsea in a year.

[Wes_Howes]

In a word yes.

However, the tone in which he made the point has to be looked at. It is still a very sensitive matter on Merseyside and the way he went about making the point wasn't the best.

Although, as has been pointed out, Manchester United don't refuse to play on the date of the Munich Air Crash and plenty of other clubs play on dates which are remembered for the wrong reasons in their respective histories.

[PhilW]

..Manchester United don't refuse to play on the date of the Munich Air Crash and plenty of other clubs play on dates which are remembered for the wrong reasons in their respective histories.

It's a unique situation though. Nearly 100 Liverpool fans were murdered, in effect, by police action, with evidence attempted to be covered up. The club are acting to prove to the fans that their losses and the crimes against them will never be forgotten.

[jingernut]

..Manchester United don't refuse to play on the date of the Munich Air Crash and plenty of other clubs play on dates which are remembered for the wrong reasons in their respective histories.

It's a unique situation though. Nearly 100 Liverpool fans were murdered, in effect, by police action, with evidence attempted to be covered up. The club are acting to prove to the fans that their losses and the crimes against them will never be forgotten.

Murdered is a bit strong don't you think? I very much doubt that the police set out with any intent to kill anyone.

[Mooshie1956]

..Manchester United don't refuse to play on the date of the Munich Air Crash and plenty of other clubs play on dates which are remembered for the wrong reasons in their respective histories.

It's a unique situation though. Nearly 100 Liverpool fans were murdered, in effect, by police action, with evidence attempted to be covered up. The club are acting to prove to the fans that their losses and the crimes against them will never be forgotten.

So it was drunken policemen that ran through the gate that got opened ?
I've never heard such a stupid statement as that and I don't even think that the Liverpool fans would say that. It came about by some bad decisions made on the day, that had terrible consequence's. The police should never have opened that gates, but on the same score fans without tickets shouldn't of tried to gain access to the match.
IMO Liverpool FC and there fans think themselves as something special and no they should have to play. What happened, happened it was a terrible loss of life but life goes on, what would happen if people in everyday life refused to work on certain days because of some personal loss.

edit for double words.

[nigelblake]

I think Alan has a point, and surely playing the game that the fans who perished on that dreadful day were such ardent supporters of would be a more fitting tribute to them!

[PhilW]

Murdered is a bit strong don't you think? I very much doubt that the police set out with any intent to kill anyone.

Hence 'in effect'. Sending large numbers of people into a confined space causes fatalities. A fact known by anyone involved in crowd control. A decision was made to send a large number of people into a confined space.....

[Ruislip Rustler]

Nearly 100 Liverpool fans were murdered, in effect, by police action, with evidence attempted to be covered up.

Ouch!!

100 Liverpool fans were, in effect, murdered by other Liverpool fans carrying out a tactic frequently used by away fans of many teams at the time - arrive as late as possible, rush the gate and overwhelm the police/stewards to obtain free access to the ground. The police acted wrongly by failing to close access through the central tunnel to the stand thus forcing the late arrivals to enter via the left and right access tunnels into areas where there was room to absorb the influx. There would not have the crush in the central area and the number of serious injuries and fatalities would have been greatly reduced.

I lived in Hillsborough at the time and witnessed the Liverpool fans leaving pubs at the last possible minute to go to the ground. If they had not acted in this way, then there would not have been a problem at the other end.

[PhilW]

I lived in Hillsborough at the time and witnessed the Liverpool fans leaving pubs at the last possible minute to go to the ground. If they had not acted in this way, then there would not have been a problem at the other end.

An individual within a crowd - or wider situation within which they are a part - has no control or knowledge of what is going on around them. The controlling overseeing body does.

[MikeH]

Sending large numbers of people into a confined space causes fatalities.

They weren't forced there against their will though, were they? There's no real point in apportioning blame after the event but every reason to learn from what happened to prevent a similar situation ever happening again.

[DerekF]

Anyway, apart from the arguments as to who was to blame, should Liverpool play on the 15th April? Is it not time to let it go? If not, when is it? 2, 5 10 years time if ever?
No other disasters I can think of seem to be so sensitive.
I wonder if Juventus play on 29th May?

[PhilW]

Sending large numbers of people into a confined space causes fatalities.

They weren't forced there against their will though, were they?

It's a crowd situation Mike. It could have been little kids being allowed to rush for the stage at a teeny pop concert. A fatal error by those whose job it is to control it.

[jingernut]

Sending large numbers of people into a confined space causes fatalities.

They weren't forced there against their will though, were they?

It's a crowd situation Mike. It could have been little kids being allowed to rush for the stage at a teeny pop concert. A fatal error by those whose job it is to control it.

A fatal error that caused a terrible accident. Using the word "murdered" whether you say "in effect" or not, is not right in my eyes.

[pbeardmore]

To try and stay on topic, yes.

Re the other comment, there is not one shred of evidence that the Liverpool Police set out deliberately in advance to kill anyone. Murder is a dreadful word to use and it should be used with great care, If you genuinely mean it, then point us to the evidence. If not, you may want to reconsider and even withdraw the comment.

[PhilW]

Call it 'knowingly endanger lives' or however you'd like to phrase taking action that creates a situation where 96 people are no longer with us.

[DerekF]

To try and stay on topic, yes.

Oh well. At least you tried.....

[King Cobra]

Of course Liverpool should play on the 15th. Man Utd., Bradford City and Glasgow Rangers (to name but three) have all been involved in footballing tragedies yet they play on the anniversaries of them. On the other hand, nobody plays the victim quite like a scouser.

[Warton GR4]

If someone drinks, and then drives, and kills someone, they've broken the law and should be punished. If you enter a football ground, without a ticket, and someone dies because of it, you've broken the law and should be punished. It doesn't matter which gates were open, when people arrived or where the people went. If you don't have a ticket, don’t go to the game. When hooligans decide to break the law, on mass, people get hurt just look at the riots last year. Just because a shop front has been smashed in doesn’t mean you can help yourself to a new TV and likewise, just because the gate to the stadium is open, doesn’t mean you can see the match for free.
Out of interest, did any Liverpool fans ever get locked up for it?
Mark

[PhilW]

As has been mentioned, the activities outside the ground are not unusual for a big event. That's why you have crowd control. That's why you have tickets. Take that away and you have anarchy.

[Wes_Howes]

Murder is too strong a word. By the law, murder is killing someone with the intent to do it. I think manslaughter might be a more appropriate term in this case, as I think even the families of the victims would be hard pressed to say it was intentional

[Dragon Rapide]

It never ceases to amaze me that almost anything to do with football engenders such emotion and such irrational comment from every point of view. Yet again we see an example of a "celebrity entertainer" making stupid remarks on a social network which he later retracts. Before the current surge in the desire to share our every waking moment with a legion of excitable followers those thoughts would have never seen the light of day. Whether or not a football game is played on a "special" day matters little to me but to be arguing about those tragic events still years later seems extraordinary.

[DerekF]

That's exactly the point though. Alan Davies or anyone else is allowed to have an opinion. Being a relatively famous person, his opinion becomes public. Nothing wrong with that. He was never disrespectful in his comments but what is not acceptable are the death threats he has received for having that opinion.
Are the culprits to be arrested and charged like the drunk who was jailed for comments about Fabrice Muamba? I doubt it.
Personally I am disappointed that Alan Davies apologized. He is right and should have stuck to his guns.
Apparently it is about respect. Is that the same "respect" shown by Liverpool fans when they chant about Munich?
Are Rangers being disrespectful when the play on Jan 2nd or Bradford when they play on May 11th. Of course not, so why is it different for Liverpool?

[Dragon Rapide]

It became public because he publicised it. Are these respectful words?

""Liverpool and the 15th, that gets on my tits that shit," said Davies on his football podcast, The Tuesday Club. "What are you talking about, 'We won't play on the day'? Why can't they? My mum died on 22 August. I don't stay in all day on 22 August. Do they play on the date of the Heysel Stadium disaster? How many dates do they not play on? Do Man United play on the date of Munich? Do Rangers play on the date when all their fans died in that disaster whatever year that was – 1971?"

He mocked the Liverpool manager, Kenny Dalglish. "Every interview he's given this season he looks like he wants to headbutt the interviewer," he said. "This tight-mouthed, furious, frowning, leaning-forward, bitter Glaswegian ranting: 'Liverpool FC do not play on April 15th.'" Davies admitted that his impression of the Scot was "terrible", adding: "I can't do him because I hate him."

The comedian, an Arsenal supporter, suggested that the match between Chelsea and his own club, which falls between the two legs of their Champions League semi-final, should be postponed. "Hillsborough is the most awful thing that's happened in my life, in terms of football," he said. "It's one of the worst tragedies in English peacetime history. But it's ridiculous that they refuse to play on that day any more."

More like the spleen from a guttersnipe. And, sad to say, typifies so much of the public face of this once fine game. And of course he then had to apologise for any offence caused and wrote ""the tone I took on the podcast was inappropriate for this subject".

Indeed it was.

[DerekF]

As I said, he wasn't disrespectful to the fans at all, if anything quite the reverse. His rant was against Kenny Dalglish and the club.
Everyone else gets over tragic events, many much more tragic events. Why can't Liverpool?