BossMann wrote: what are our hopes and aspirations for the show in 2018?
BossMann wrote:so why can the flying display not be of equal standard?
BossMann wrote:and the dates set for 2018 to be 8/9th September, clashing with the Belgian Air Days at Kleine Brogel and the 100th anniversary of Czechoslovak air force at the Czech International Air Fest
n0143773 wrote:BossMann wrote:so why can the flying display not be of equal standard?
You answered that earlier in your own post:BossMann wrote:and the dates set for 2018 to be 8/9th September, clashing with the Belgian Air Days at Kleine Brogel and the 100th anniversary of Czechoslovak air force at the Czech International Air Fest
Maybe someone can set a calendar of the short period of the year in which airshows tend to take place, taking in all airshows in Western and Central Europe, leaving any less congested weekends? Well, maybe you'll find the RIAT weekend is less congested, but that is because every other show tries to not conflict with that one. Anyone thinking DBH will organise their two flying events on the same dates?Finningley Boy wrote:A lack lustre show remains just that, many here have pointed out the problem with clashing with aa much as a fly in over on the continent. But we'll clash again, seems to be the logic, because we can't schedule the air show for a less congested weekend because we need the student beds.
Finningley Boy wrote:Andy,
I for one am only thinking out loud on here, if that's permissible. When I say sinister, I don't mean something like a secret sect conspiracy, what I mean is if one reads between the particular lines about wanting this to be a 'family show' well why does it need stating? A family show as oppose to what? And yes it might although not necessarily mean the organisers are making in effort to accommodate... well, young families who as many would interpret are probably happy with anything. That said fellah, yes I imagine that if they could have increased military participation I'm sure they would. However, as I've said, the claim, probably genuine, about depending upon the University of Lincoln to accommodate participants and staff was used in the very same manner by the Waddington air show organisers? Its never been used elsewhere. How do the Biggin Hill organisers manage? I f it is the case that if the event can't be scheduled on dates which don't clash with events which suck up every military participant and given the RAF for various reasons can't do any better than the Red Arrows, Typhoon, BBMF, Falcons and a rousing publicity machine then you can understand surely that all criticisms are valid, although I'll grant the comments about Red 5 were wholly unjustified and silly! But unless the organisers have a plan to avoid the same pedestrian event, then no matter how hard those involved work and whatever they sacrifice. A lack lustre show remains just that, many here have pointed out the problem with clashing with aa much as a fly in over on the continent. But we'll clash again, seems to be the logic, because we can't schedule the air show for a less congested weekend because we need the student beds. Another thing, I've already mentioned about the state of the infrastructure at Royal Air Force Station Scampton, its a Bloody disgrace, and an MOD one. A serving RAF station presented like that! That sir is unbelievable. They cannot be serious!![]()
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Finningley Boy wrote:XX752,
I know the history behind the closure but everywhere you turn now its the same, no money being spent. When the station made it onto the Government's list of military establishments to close in 1994 just what kind of state was the officers' Mess in for example, or any other Buildings? As for the cost of renovation being beyond any reasonable price I think that's because typically today those who should know better find things far more naff to waste money on. Its true what Capt Mainwaring said; 'built for show, not for blow', however, there has to be a balance and my understanding in that while it is run by RAFCTE, the Scampton air show in all regards otherwise is supposed to be the resumption of the Waddington air show, at a location which doesn't give the powers that be sleepless nights wondering if a mad jafadi, or whatever, might get into the Air Warfare Centre or the bit where the droners are. A most unlikely scenario I'd have thought given just the routine security on these points on the base at Waddington. But still, to all intents and purpose, Scampton is the new Finningley! Again, looking at the state of Scampton and what it has come to represent says a lot about not just the RAF, but the whole rotten British Government who preside over such decay in one of the finest military institutions which is apparently going to celebrate its Centenary next year!!!!!!!!!! Well Happy Birthday when it comes, Boys and Girls!![]()
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Finningley Boy wrote:XX752,
How utterly depressing. I can see the logic in what you're saying though. The one thing which puzzles here, the air show? Its already been hailed a success and another planned for next year, despite the comments made here on UKAR, by folk like myself no less. However, should the air show really take off, pardon the pun, next year, at what juncture, imagining the RAFAT get their T2s or whatever (I've heard F-16s in some quarters!) would the RAF look to abandon the place otherwise. I'd have thought they'd have been as well doing so.. well now. What's to stop them? They'd be able to off load, perhaps to more Army units yet to return from Germany, or is it just about the money? In other words, are the MOD hell bent on giving Scampton up to become an Industrial Park? But such planning would be in motion now surely. Back to the air show, and we know that such a thing if organised by the RAF directly wouldn't save it. But its organised by RAFCTE, and if it does become the RIAT of the North before the Treasury axe swings again, wither goest the event ? If its a money maker, RAFCTE certainly and the MOD perhaps begrudgingly, would probably have to plan its move in advance as well? Not back to Waddington me thinks, unless they can claim a lessening of physical security concerns by then, say for example ISIS are run to earth in the meantime!? Or would Leeming, Coningsby... that's really it, be able to accommodate?
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Finningley Boy wrote:XX752,
How utterly depressing. I can see the logic in what you're saying though. The one thing which puzzles here, the air show? Its already been hailed a success and another planned for next year, despite the comments made here on UKAR, by folk like myself no less. However, should the air show really take off, pardon the pun, next year, at what juncture, imagining the RAFAT get their T2s or whatever (I've heard F-16s in some quarters!) would the RAF look to abandon the place otherwise. I'd have thought they'd have been as well doing so.. well now. What's to stop them? They'd be able to off load, perhaps to more Army units yet to return from Germany, or is it just about the money? In other words, are the MOD hell bent on giving Scampton up to become an Industrial Park? But such planning would be in motion now surely. Back to the air show, and we know that such a thing if organised by the RAF directly wouldn't save it. But its organised by RAFCTE, and if it does become the RIAT of the North before the Treasury axe swings again, wither goest the event ? If its a money maker, RAFCTE certainly and the MOD perhaps begrudgingly, would probably have to plan its move in advance as well? Not back to Waddington me thinks, unless they can claim a lessening of physical security concerns by then, say for example ISIS are run to earth in the meantime!? Or would Leeming, Coningsby... that's really it, be able to accommodate?
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and BossMann withI would like to hope that the organisers; DBH/RIAT air ops, have simply dropped the Scampton Ball this year and have their finger out from here on in.
So I guess I am hoping that if DBH/ RIAT Air Ops don't 'forget' about the Scampton Airshow 2018 like they did this year,
RIAT Air Ops wrote:I'm not about to go into forensic detail re: Scampton 2017, I'll leave that for others who feel they are better placed. What I do find comical are comments such as FB withand BossMann withI would like to hope that the organisers; DBH/RIAT air ops, have simply dropped the Scampton Ball this year and have their finger out from here on in.So I guess I am hoping that if DBH/ RIAT Air Ops don't 'forget' about the Scampton Airshow 2018 like they did this year,
A couple of assumptions that are just so far from the truth they are laughable but there you go. The Scampton 2017 show was pitched at air arms late last year in the same manner as we do with RIAT and when national decisions were made as to what was going where Scampton was only allocated the Belgians and French in the flying display. No "dropping the ball" or "forgetting about Scampton" whatsoever. Hence RCAF CF-18, Dutch F-16 pair, German Typhoon, ANG KC-135R and the SWHF who, regarding the flying display, were victims of external factors. We worked to contact some of the participants that were scheduled to be at Lens via Air Staffs and Attaches to see what was possible for Scampton. None deigned to respond to our enquiries.
Enjoy your weekend.
RIAT Air Ops wrote:I'm not about to go into forensic detail re: Scampton 2017, I'll leave that for others who feel they are better placed. What I do find comical are comments such as FB withand BossMann withI would like to hope that the organisers; DBH/RIAT air ops, have simply dropped the Scampton Ball this year and have their finger out from here on in.So I guess I am hoping that if DBH/ RIAT Air Ops don't 'forget' about the Scampton Airshow 2018 like they did this year,
A couple of assumptions that are just so far from the truth they are laughable but there you go. The Scampton 2017 show was pitched at air arms late last year in the same manner as we do with RIAT and when national decisions were made as to what was going where Scampton was only allocated the Belgians and French in the flying display. No "dropping the ball" or "forgetting about Scampton" whatsoever. Hence RCAF CF-18, Dutch F-16 pair, German Typhoon, ANG KC-135R and the SWHF who, regarding the flying display, were victims of external factors. We worked to contact some of the participants that were scheduled to be at Lens via Air Staffs and Attaches to see what was possible for Scampton. None deigned to respond to our enquiries.
Enjoy your weekend.
n0143773 wrote:Can't believe all the discussion. Simple summary of 2017:
1. Ticket prices were too high, in so far as they did not offer value for money when comparing the flying display to other alternatives;
2. The quality of the flying display was poor. This had nothing to do with a lack of effort from DBH - it was purely down to other nations simply prioritising other shows, or seeing little benefit in attending, some having already made the effort to attend others in the UK throughout the year.
Let's move on and see how 2018 compares (point 1 can be resolved, chances are point 2 won't be).
RIAT Air Ops wrote:n0143773 wrote:Can't believe all the discussion. Simple summary of 2017:
1. Ticket prices were too high, in so far as they did not offer value for money when comparing the flying display to other alternatives;
2. The quality of the flying display was poor. This had nothing to do with a lack of effort from DBH - it was purely down to other nations simply prioritising other shows, or seeing little benefit in attending, some having already made the effort to attend others in the UK throughout the year.
Let's move on and see how 2018 compares (point 1 can be resolved, chances are point 2 won't be).
I've disagreed with your views in the past but this time Point 1. Subjective if only looking at it from a flying display perspective. Point 2. nail/head - done.![]()
Wonder how many folks complaining about ticket prices (not necessarily folks on here) were happily stumping up to have a ride in the Pleasure Flying helicopters?
XX752 wrote:RIAT Air Ops wrote:n0143773 wrote:Can't believe all the discussion. Simple summary of 2017:
1. Ticket prices were too high, in so far as they did not offer value for money when comparing the flying display to other alternatives;
2. The quality of the flying display was poor. This had nothing to do with a lack of effort from DBH - it was purely down to other nations simply prioritising other shows, or seeing little benefit in attending, some having already made the effort to attend others in the UK throughout the year.
Let's move on and see how 2018 compares (point 1 can be resolved, chances are point 2 won't be).
I've disagreed with your views in the past but this time Point 1. Subjective if only looking at it from a flying display perspective. Point 2. nail/head - done.![]()
Wonder how many folks complaining about ticket prices (not necessarily folks on here) were happily stumping up to have a ride in the Pleasure Flying helicopters?
If your views are representative of the organisers then it is clear you think you know best. All I can say is you are extremely fortunate that the area is bereft of airshows. If Cosford, Biggin Hill etc were closer then I think this venue would struggle for what is offered for the cost.
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