RIAT 2018 discussion

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby CJS on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 11:13 am

As had been said again and again, there's plenty of unobstructed crowdline to be had.

Anyway, I tend to find that the flying is mostly above the height of the corporate tents :-P
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby speedbird2639 on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 11:32 am

CJS wrote:As had been said again and again, there's plenty of unobstructed crowdline to be had.


Not if you like to take take off/ landing shots there isn't - the red sector crowdline is packed out about 30 mins after the gates open. Blue sector is taken up with all the chalets and corporate 'stools' and if you were to attempt it from the Green sector you would need a 600mm lens with a 1.4x AND a 2.0x converter on it! Modern fighters can turn so tightly if you are in Red or Green you won't see much of a fast jet display.

Anyway, I tend to find that the flying is mostly above the height of the corporate tents


True - but the tent is right in front of you and the aircraft is half a mile away so if you were to be behind the tents/ chalets a good % of the display WILL be blocked by the obstruction in front of you (I had exactly that problem when I was directed to park behind the Cosford Club at Cosford this year where I would've preferred to have been able to stay close to the car due to the poor weather). And all the space behind the chalets etc is fenced off for the storage of their 'support equipment' which stays there untouched all weekend.

Not.....going.......to.......happen.......


Yes - I know I'm basically "tilting at windmills" with all of this as DBH are in conspiracy with the 'blue blazer'/ LinkedIn crowd. But it won't stop me from feeling frustrated that RIAT has gone so far out of their way in an attempt to ruin what was previously a great experience. It won't be long before the best chance of an unobstructed view will to be had from Kempsford camping rather than on the showground - you can see why the likes of Totterdown are so popular.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Jakub.Zurek on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 12:50 pm

speedbird2639 wrote:
CJS wrote:As had been said again and again, there's plenty of unobstructed crowdline to be had.


Not if you like to take take off/ landing shots there isn't - the red sector crowdline is packed out about 30 mins after the gates open. Blue sector is taken up with all the chalets and corporate 'stools' and if you were to attempt it from the Green sector you would need a 600mm lens with a 1.4x AND a 2.0x converter on it! Modern fighters can turn so tightly if you are in Red or Green you won't see much of a fast jet display.



Let's not blow things out of proportion. I went to RIAT on Friday and Saturday this year, and on both days I managed to take pictures of take-offs and landings from the blue zone. Yes, there is not much space in the blue zone for normal admission tickets, and I can see why a lot of people are unhappy with the corporate stuff. But still there is some space between FRIAT and viewing village, and I'm not going to let a couple of tents get in the way of my enjoyment of the show.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby jalfrezi on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 1:25 pm

I was in the green zone this year and it wasn't a great experience, everything seemed so far away. But as they say, if you can't beat them, join them - so I've gone Mach2 next year....
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 1:35 pm

Don't forget, though, that those in the Green & Red zones get to see things that those in the Blue zone - especially those in FRIAT & the other central enclosures - don't.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby jalfrezi on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 2:06 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:Don't forget, though, that those in the Green & Red zones get to see things that those in the Blue zone - especially those in FRIAT & the other central enclosures - don't.


Of course, you can get some nice taxi shots in green, and landing/takeoff shots in red, but the bulk of the display is performed for the airshow centre datum in blue.

I'll probably not spend my entire time in FRIAT anyway, it'll just be nice to be in blue for a change!
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby RIAT Air Ops on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 9:38 am

The Baron wrote:
RIAT Air Ops wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:By way of comparison, clubs in the Bundesliga produce A4-sized programmes not unlike RIAT's in terms of number of pages. I think Bayern Munich's is under €2 this season, and the same sort of price at Dortmund and Schalke. They might get discounts for producing them for 17 home games a year as opposed to RIAT's annual order, but there is no way on Earth a £15 magazine can be justified, especially when the content is wafer-thin and heavily subsidised.

When UKAR next cosy up to Armstrong, perhaps the programme rip-off can be addressed.


Merry Christmas Dan. Rather than quoting costs for Germany why not quote the costs for an equivalent Premier League game in England?

Tom


Tom,
Could you at least ask the question to your peers at DBH as to why the programme costs are so high?


Certainly, will do once back at work.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 10:39 am

RIAT Air Ops wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:By way of comparison, clubs in the Bundesliga produce A4-sized programmes not unlike RIAT's in terms of number of pages. I think Bayern Munich's is under €2 this season, and the same sort of price at Dortmund and Schalke. They might get discounts for producing them for 17 home games a year as opposed to RIAT's annual order, but there is no way on Earth a £15 magazine can be justified, especially when the content is wafer-thin and heavily subsidised.

When UKAR next cosy up to Armstrong, perhaps the programme rip-off can be addressed.


Merry Christmas Dan. Rather than quoting costs for Germany why not quote the costs for an equivalent Premier League game in England?

Tom


Sure thing Tom. A Premier League programme is £3.50-£4 at most clubs. So not quite £15.

The comparison with Germany was that theirs are similar to the DBH book of adverts in terms of size and number of pages. Premier League programmes tend to be A5 and thinner.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby davidjones533 on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 11:06 am

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
RIAT Air Ops wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:By way of comparison, clubs in the Bundesliga produce A4-sized programmes not unlike RIAT's in terms of number of pages. I think Bayern Munich's is under €2 this season, and the same sort of price at Dortmund and Schalke. They might get discounts for producing them for 17 home games a year as opposed to RIAT's annual order, but there is no way on Earth a £15 magazine can be justified, especially when the content is wafer-thin and heavily subsidised.

When UKAR next cosy up to Armstrong, perhaps the programme rip-off can be addressed.


Merry Christmas Dan. Rather than quoting costs for Germany why not quote the costs for an equivalent Premier League game in England?

Tom


Sure thing Tom. A Premier League programme is £3.50-£4 at most clubs. So not quite £15.

The comparison with Germany was that theirs are similar to the DBH book of adverts in terms of size and number of pages. Premier League programmes tend to be A5 and thinner.


And how many home games per season are there? I.e. how many opportunities to make money from programmes compared to an annual event. Let’s not forget that RIAT are trying to raise funds for charity, whereas football clubs are under pressure to keep costs low for fans given their other, quite disgusting, levels of income from other sources.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby tankbuster81 on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 11:46 am

speedbird2639 wrote:@airshowhammer

:clap: :yahoo: :clap: :yahoo: :clap:

Finally - someone who gets it!!

Agreed - move the corporate tents and the chalets etc* South of the static and leave crowdline free of clutter.

(*) I'm prepared to make an exception for the FRIAT grandstand but even that should be moved back from the front of the crowdline so the rear of the grandstand is on the Northern edge of the taxiway where the static is parked and the area in front of the grandstand opened up to the general public.

Regarding the retail outlets well that is just DBH proving they will take £ from anyone as long as the cheque clears. Not sure why people buy non aviation specific tat at air shows when these days you will almost certainly get a better selection and more competitive price online - just wait til you get home!


Second this in spades!!!! It needs a massive overhaul, but like everything these days its all down to how much money can we rinse out of folk. All the corporate clots could visit on pre- show days like Farnborough, with the chalet for said people at one end of the crowdline, or better still behind the static.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby tankbuster81 on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 11:51 am

jalfrezi wrote:I was in the green zone this year and it wasn't a great experience, everything seemed so far away. But as they say, if you can't beat them, join them - so I've gone Mach2 next year....


I see why you are doing this , but in essence your forced to pay a lot more money just to get a better view.It isn't right, the admission ticket alone is not a cheap deal, and if you buy a programme (I'm not jumping on to that thread) by the time you enter the showground proper, your almost £60 in the red.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby CJS on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 12:45 pm

Again, the phrase "better view" is entirely subjective. I've little interest in the aircraft on the ground, whether taxiing taking off or landing, so for me the view is perfect as long as I don't choose to stand right behind a grandstand (or one of the machine gun photographers with the 3 foot lenses ;-) ). Which would obviously be stupid so I don't do it.

You have a choice to by a FRIAT package. Quite clearly no-one is making anyone do it, and there is - there just is - plenty of crowdline to be had as long as you are prepared to get there early.

You may not like the chalets and the grandstands, but move them, lessen the view from them or remove them altogether and it's not difficult to see what will end up happening.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Go4Long on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 3:22 pm

tankbuster81 wrote:
jalfrezi wrote:I was in the green zone this year and it wasn't a great experience, everything seemed so far away. But as they say, if you can't beat them, join them - so I've gone Mach2 next year....


I see why you are doing this , but in essence your forced to pay a lot more money just to get a better view.It isn't right, the admission ticket alone is not a cheap deal, and if you buy a programme (I'm not jumping on to that thread) by the time you enter the showground proper, your almost £60 in the red.


You're forced to pay more money for a better view...and this for some reason seems unfair to you? What about concerts...unfair that the better tickets cost more? Football? Flights? Is it unfair that business class costs more than economy?

No matter where you go, or what it is you're doing, better seats cost more. FRIAT is actually a bargain when you consider all the little perks that come with it (including the much maligned 15 pound program). I know that people think that it should all be the same regardless of one's ability to pay, but that just doesn't translate in to reality anywhere.

FRIAT are the best seats. They're also among the most expensive. If you don't like it you can pay less and get a subjectively "worse" view. Once again, that's just reality.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Airshowhammer on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 3:34 pm

CJS wrote:Again, the phrase "better view" is entirely subjective. I've little interest in the aircraft on the ground, whether taxiing taking off or landing, so for me the view is perfect as long as I don't choose to stand right behind a grandstand (or one of the machine gun photographers with the 3 foot lenses ;-) ). Which would obviously be stupid so I don't do it.

You have a choice to by a FRIAT package. Quite clearly no-one is making anyone do it, and there is - there just is - plenty of crowdline to be had as long as you are prepared to get there early.

You may not like the chalets and the grandstands, but move them, lessen the view from them or remove them altogether and it's not difficult to see what will end up happening.


‘Theres plenty of crowdline to be had’ yes, to the left and right of the chalets and grandstand not directly central. This is where the issue commences. Why can it not be like Biggin Hill? Clear space throughout the whole crowdline which you are able to choose where you want to position yourself. When i’m standing in the east i get an eyeful to the west of chalets and flags. If i’m in blue in the west looking to my east and i’m not right af the front i can’t see whats taking off and i remember thats because the some of the grandstand is in the way and some of the enclosures. Its becoming more and more like Farnborough.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby aviodromefriend on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 3:40 pm

davidjones533 wrote:And how many home games per season are there? I.e. how many opportunities to make money from programmes compared to an annual event. Let’s not forget that RIAT are trying to raise funds for charity, whereas football clubs are under pressure to keep costs low for fans given their other, quite disgusting, levels of income from other sources.
Let's not forget that we don't know what kind of deals we're talking about when bringing in the Bundesliga. As Dan told us, Bayern, BVB und Schalke are about the same price. Makes me wonder if there isn't a deal between the DFB (German equivalent of the FA) and a printing company, bringing programs for ALL Bundesliga games under one contract. You might get more of a discount if you put those all under one deal. If that is a wrong assumption, maybe the clubs have contracts covering more than their football-programs, but also the programs for the other sports they participate in?
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby RIAT Air Ops on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 10:04 am

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
RIAT Air Ops wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:By way of comparison, clubs in the Bundesliga produce A4-sized programmes not unlike RIAT's in terms of number of pages. I think Bayern Munich's is under €2 this season, and the same sort of price at Dortmund and Schalke. They might get discounts for producing them for 17 home games a year as opposed to RIAT's annual order, but there is no way on Earth a £15 magazine can be justified, especially when the content is wafer-thin and heavily subsidised.

When UKAR next cosy up to Armstrong, perhaps the programme rip-off can be addressed.


Merry Christmas Dan. Rather than quoting costs for Germany why not quote the costs for an equivalent Premier League game in England?

Tom


Sure thing Tom. A Premier League programme is £3.50-£4 at most clubs. So not quite £15.

The comparison with Germany was that theirs are similar to the DBH book of adverts in terms of size and number of pages. Premier League programmes tend to be A5 and thinner.


Thank you. As I don't frequent football matches I have no idea of costs for their programmes.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby iainpeden on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 9:59 pm

Yesterday I was taken to Anfield where, thankfully, Liverpool beat Leicester ( I follow Liverpool, my wife is a Foxes fan).

It was my 60th birthday present from my wife and as we,re not members of either club the only way to get tickets was to have a hospitality package.

For £180 per ticket we had a decent seat, access to the lounge at a nearby pub, a 2 course roast lunch and sandwiches and soup after wards and a programme. I also got to chat to Chris Lawler - one of the great players under Shankley and an England international.

A good day out but I get 4 days in a stand at Fairford for much the same money.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Go4Long on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 2:38 pm

On topic...for a change.

Do we assume that the weekly announcements are due to start this Thursday?
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby TijnvandeBeld on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 10:22 pm

Go4Long wrote:On topic...for a change.

Do we assume that the weekly announcements are due to start this Thursday?


No, I think the next update will be somewhere at the end of February, judging by last year’s announcements...
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby aviodromefriend on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 10:24 am

Go4Long wrote:On topic...for a change.

Do we assume that the weekly announcements are due to start this Thursday?
Isn't DBH on leave until the end of the week?
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby RIAT Air Ops on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 11:07 am

aviodromefriend wrote:
Go4Long wrote:On topic...for a change.

Do we assume that the weekly announcements are due to start this Thursday?
Isn't DBH on leave until the end of the week?


Some folks are in whilst some will return to work on Monday (me included).
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Go4Long on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 2:20 pm

TijnvandeBeld wrote:
Go4Long wrote:On topic...for a change.

Do we assume that the weekly announcements are due to start this Thursday?


No, I think the next update will be somewhere at the end of February, judging by last year’s announcements...


Last year's first announcement was in December...but yes, first regular participant announcement was Feb 16th...but this year is "special"
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby CJS on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 8:40 pm

This year's first announcements were in, what, October? November?

As gets repeated ad infinitum on here every year, nothing is confirmed by DBH until all is are dotted and ts crossed. Some other shows don't follow this and get caught out as a result.

The show - special or not - isn't until July. I don't see why weekly announcements would start earlier than they usually do.

Let's not forget that we've already had confirmation of F-35 and Canadian Hornet displays. Hardly a shabby start.

Aaaand...breathe (sorry, first day of term :-P )
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby sithrity on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 10:01 pm

CJS wrote:This year's first announcements were in, what, October? November?

As gets repeated ad infinitum on here every year, nothing is confirmed by DBH until all is are dotted and ts crossed. Some other shows don't follow this and get caught out as a result.

The show - special or not - isn't until July. I don't see why weekly announcements would start earlier than they usually do.

Let's not forget that we've already had confirmation of F-35 and Canadian Hornet displays. Hardly a shabby start.

Aaaand...breathe (sorry, first day of term :-P )



I've seen the confirmation of the Canadian Hornet display. I'm just wondering where the information on the F-35 is, do you have a link?

Sorry for my ignorance and thanks in advance.

Simon.

Edit: Found it.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby boff180 on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 12:26 pm

Invited countries are up
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