RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby King Cobra on Thu 26 Apr 2012, 5:38 pm

pbeardmore wrote:We all know that there are areas within the UK where if that airframe was left accessable to the public, it would be stripped down and then torched before you can say "Jeremy Kyle", so I dont think that a UK based forum (or individual members) has any right to imply that it is any more unsafe in the middle of an arabian desert.


Agreed but equally there are remote places in the UK where it could have survived untouched for years just as there are populous areas in the Middle East where it would have disappeared years ago.
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby retrobloke on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 4:41 am

The people over at Vintage Wings of Canada think they have identified the aircraft as HS-B from 260 Squadron.

http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/357/language/en-CA/Original-Kittyhawk-HS-B-Discovered.aspx

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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby pbeardmore on Thu 03 May 2012, 11:03 am

King Cobra wrote:
pbeardmore wrote:We all know that there are areas within the UK where if that airframe was left accessable to the public, it would be stripped down and then torched before you can say "Jeremy Kyle", so I dont think that a UK based forum (or individual members) has any right to imply that it is any more unsafe in the middle of an arabian desert.


Agreed but equally there are remote places in the UK where it could have survived untouched for years just as there are populous areas in the Middle East where it would have disappeared years ago.


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Re: P 40 in the desert

Postby Dragon Rapide on Fri 11 May 2012, 8:06 am

Do we know anything more....? Reading the article it seems that it is a great deal more than a mirage. Andy Saunders seems to reckon it might be the real thing and the RAF Museum is interested so perhaps the earlier topic was prematurely dismissive.
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby Timc on Fri 11 May 2012, 9:06 am

It's definitely the real deal! However, the concern is now that bit's seem to be disappearing from the airframe at a great rate of knots.

Only to be expected I suppose no matter what part of the world it was found.
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby Maisie on Fri 11 May 2012, 10:18 am

As much as it would be good to see it over here in any condition, Those that found it probably have no clue on how rare it is, and just excited that they found a wrecked plane from a war. What ever happens to it, happens. I'd imagine if a collector or someone who could do something good with it would be trying there hardest to get it.
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby Mooshie1956 on Fri 11 May 2012, 5:42 pm

ITV carrying a story about it, due on in the next couple of minutes.


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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby AMB on Fri 11 May 2012, 11:29 pm

A relation of the pilot has come forward and just posted this on the Daily Mail's website:


Flt sgt Dennis Copping was my great, great uncle, and a much loved youngest brother to my grandmother edna, and auntie lily. We are astounded that his resting place has been found 70yrs later, and hopefully the possible discovery of his remains, god bless, we are so proud of you, your family xxxxx
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby craig.mason on Sat 12 May 2012, 7:32 am

be nice if it was was brought back to the uk and restored to flying condition
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby timuss on Sat 12 May 2012, 7:55 pm

craig.mason wrote:be nice if it was was brought back to the uk and restored to flying condition
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18038650


I think it would be better to be preserved as found, in this instance in my opinion.
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby Tommy on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 11:00 am

Massive thread-revival, but it *seems* this P-40 has resurfaced at the El Alamein Museum after a restoration of sorts.



Can’t see it in this thread, but did the RAFM not trade a Spitfire for this? The old Science Museum example?
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 11:17 am

There's a side-on view doing the rounds on Facebook which looks even worse.

Looks like the RAFM have been shafted well and truly by the Egyptians. A disgusting story which needs telling in its entirety.

From the evidence, it appears the "restorers" previous experience was limited to lump hammers, Airfix kits and Humbrol enamel.
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby Hammy on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 11:34 am

Tommy wrote:Can’t see it in this thread, but did the RAFM not trade a Spitfire for this? The old Science Museum example?


As I recall, the RAF Museum entered an agreement with Kennet Aviation where Spitfire Mk.XXII PK664 (the one once displayed at the Science Museum) was traded in exchange for the recovery of Kittyhawk III ET574 from the Sahara. I'm not sure what has happened since then, but with Kennet having received PK664 before the Kittyhawk recovery was due to take place and the unstable political situation in Egypt at the time, it does appear that RAFM have given away a Spitfire. That being said, could it be on loan from RAFM to the museum at El Alamein?
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby Pringles on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 11:39 am

So an aircraft that should have been excellently preserved by the RAFM "as found" has been thrown together by some Egyptian Airfix hobbyists and presumably Spitfire PK664 has also been lost? I recall the salvage was being carried out by Kennet Aviation, anyone near North Weald able to ask some questions of that side of the operation?
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby The Baron on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 5:17 pm

That is truly horrifying if that is the case. A real shame to have lost such a historic airframe.
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby Tommy on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 10:21 pm

Just stumbled across a FB post which seems to contain more shots of the (tragic) "restoration":

The actual post wont copy across here (I could just be a bit thick - I've had a long day), but it's found here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/5991177 ... nref=story






"original condition"

:-X :-X :-X

Might just move this thread to the "Modelling" sub-forum...
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby ArabJazzie on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 10:34 pm

Tommy wrote:Just stumbled across a FB post which seems to contain more shots of the (tragic) "restoration":



Might just move this thread to the "Modelling" sub-forum...


Is that what you really think of us! :mad: :grin:

I think at least 2 of us in the modelling section would have a good crack at getting a nice flyer out of that one!
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby Tommy on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 10:41 pm

ArabJazzie wrote:
Tommy wrote:Just stumbled across a FB post which seems to contain more shots of the (tragic) "restoration":



Might just move this thread to the "Modelling" sub-forum...


Is that what you really think of us! :mad: :grin:


Profuse apologies - I'll have to move it to the "Modelling" sub-forum and entitle the thread "how *not* to do it - a guide for beginners".
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 1:47 am

Tommy wrote:Just stumbled across a FB post which seems to contain more shots of the (tragic) "restoration":

The actual post wont copy across here (I could just be a bit thick - I've had a long day), but it's found here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/5991177 ... nref=story






"original condition"

:-X :-X :-X

Might just move this thread to the "Modelling" sub-forum...


That's the picture I saw. It is nothing short of a monstrosity. Putting the utterly horrific markings to one side, just look at the state of the landing gear. The tailwheel looks straight off a family hatchback.

There've been some crimes against historic airframes in the past, (many of which the RAFM have been complicit in - the destruction of both their Beverley at Hendon and the last remaining Vulcan B.1 at Cosford to name a couple), but this defiling of a unique time-capsule airframe by ham-fisted amateurs perhaps tops the lot. And if indeed a Spitfire has gone missing as part of the grubby deal, then those responsible need bringing to account.
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby Brevet Cable on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 4:23 am

Whinge about the airframe as much as you want, but the greatest offence is that from the photos featured there appears to be no mention whatsoever about the pilot or his fate.
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby Wissam24 on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 9:55 am

I agree with brevet. It's a bad restoration, but they've given it a prominent positions and it evidently has had a lot of work put into it at a time when I expect they don't have a whole lot of cash. But that there's no context given is a real shame
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby keithjs on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 11:10 am

What an absolute disgrace..! :sad: At least they could have finished it with the correct markings... It can't be that difficult surely? :dunno: Such a shame... :down:
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby HeyfordDave111 on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 12:50 pm

Totally agree with the above ......but........ what about the spitfire?
You can’t just ‘lose’ one.

Where is it now? Who is responsible? What’s happening with it?

Anyone?
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Re: RAF P-40 found in the Sahara???

Postby GertrudetheMerciless on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 6:58 pm

HeyfordDave111 wrote:Totally agree with the above ......but........ what about the spitfire?
You can’t just ‘lose’ one.

Where is it now? Who is responsible? What’s happening with it?

Anyone?


It must be with Kennet. It's not lost, just isn't "our" property anymore.

As for the "restoration" - never let me near any Egyptian Air Force aircraft then. :shock:
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