G-APSA

G-APSA

Postby tankbuster on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 12:44 pm

e-mail extract courtesy of Peter Brown on the Blackbushe pages


Learned this morning that the beautiful G-APSA will soon be scrapped. Sitting at Coventry, waiting for someone to love her, an ex Blackbushe resident she would have been the perfect "Gate Guard" for Blackbushe into the future..with her story of the past. Any last minute bids???
Trevor C
recent and not so recent pictures here https://trevorc28a.wixsite.com/trevspics
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tankbuster

Re: G-APSA

Postby boff180 on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 12:47 pm

Wow, she was popular on the 2008 display circuit too!
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boff180
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Re: G-APSA

Postby jalfrezi on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 1:15 pm

Can't believe that, as she's still in excellent condition. :facepalm: :sad: :mad:

ImageDouglas DC-6A Cloudmaster - 3 by Nick Jennings, on Flickr
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jalfrezi
UKAR Staff

Re: G-APSA

Postby G-CVIX on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 1:57 pm

That's awful. I only saw it display once, but it was a great sight.

Edit: bit of digging suggests it needs wing spar work at a cost of £200,000+ (that figure was a few years ago, so probably bigger now), so that could be why?
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G-CVIX

Re: G-APSA

Postby keithjs on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 7:24 pm

That's a real shame... :sad:

I was fortunate enough to get a trip from Coventry to Belfast and back in her in 1990. In the original Air Atlantique scheme of course. I believe we were delivering telephone directories if I remember correctly..
...Rad shutters auto.
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keithjs

Re: G-APSA

Postby 106500 on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 9:03 pm

Appalling if true - nothing worse than a preserved airframe cast aside and ending up as razor blades. I recall it's excellent display at Farnborough in 2008 (as I remember). Sickening - where will it end; I fear there will be more as well - has the Twin Pioneer met its end yet? :sad:
106500

Re: G-APSA

Postby Seahornet on Thu 25 Jan 2018, 10:27 am

106500 wrote:...nothing worse than a preserved airframe cast aside and ending up as razor blades...


Totally agree, an aluminium alloy razor blade would be as useful as a chocolate teapot... :wink:
And as the smart ship grew,
In stature, grace and hue,
In shadowy silent distance grew the iceberg too....
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Seahornet

Re: G-APSA

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 25 Jan 2018, 10:50 am

Last CofA/PtoF expired in 2009, so presumably it hasn't flown since then.
Also presume it won't be going anywhere under it's own steam unless a lot of money is spent on it ( on top of the £200k+ already mentioned ) to obtain the required PtoF.
Plenty of aircraft look like they're in excellent condition, don't mean they're in a fit state to ever fly again.

Interestingly, the Owner's address is a PO box number in the Cayman Islands.
Meh !!
Not an enthusiast or a spotter
trollpikken fforwm swyddogol
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Brevet Cable

Re: G-APSA

Postby capercaillie on Thu 25 Jan 2018, 10:53 am

I was under (maybe falsely) that the owners of all the aircraft at Coventry wanted good homes wherever possible?

Could this not be wheeled a few yards down to the Midland air Museum and add to their collection? A free donation or is that too simplistic? :dunno:
"The surrogate voice of st24"
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capercaillie

Re: G-APSA

Postby hunterxf382 on Thu 25 Jan 2018, 11:29 am

Space would be the problem at the Museum site sadly... just not enough room for something this large.
Pete Buckingham
Volunteer in Aviation
Former RAF Engineer
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hunterxf382

Re: G-APSA

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 25 Jan 2018, 11:55 am

Wonder how many of the 8 'shares' they were offering were purchased.....and how impressed anyone who purchased one will be to find they wasted their money ?
Meh !!
Not an enthusiast or a spotter
trollpikken fforwm swyddogol
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Brevet Cable

Re: G-APSA

Postby vulcan558 on Thu 25 Jan 2018, 5:08 pm

Surprised Buffalow have not took an intrest.
vulcan558

Re: G-APSA

Postby Stagger2 on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 1:01 am

Buffalo have moved 'upmarket' to the Electra? In one recent episode Joe visited Coventry to do a Deal on their Electra & spares, as he kept getting outbid on US-based ex- firebomber Electra's. Payload-vs-extra fuel still works out better for the turbo-prop. :wink:
Stagger2

Re: G-APSA

Postby Ryan. on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 10:24 am

The breakup of the Air Atlantique/Classic Air Force has pretty much been a total disaster. A good intent to keep these aircraft airborne has sadly not lead to much.

Prentice, Rapide and the Devon are the only Aircraft, off the top of my head, to have a happy outcome.
Ryan.

Re: G-APSA

Postby The Baron on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 2:49 pm

Ryan. wrote:The breakup of the Air Atlantique/Classic Air Force has pretty much been a total disaster. A good intent to keep these aircraft airborne has sadly not lead to much.

Prentice, Rapide and the Devon are the only Aircraft, off the top of my head, to have a happy outcome.


Anson is still flying. Haven't heard anything about the Pembroke since it was sold, or what's going to happen to the Twin Pioneer.
Loafer for Mr. Da Vinci.
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The Baron

Re: G-APSA

Postby 106500 on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 6:21 pm

The Baron wrote:
Ryan. wrote:The breakup of the Air Atlantique/Classic Air Force has pretty much been a total disaster. A good intent to keep these aircraft airborne has sadly not lead to much.

Prentice, Rapide and the Devon are the only Aircraft, off the top of my head, to have a happy outcome.


Anson is still flying. Haven't heard anything about the Pembroke since it was sold, or what's going to happen to the Twin Pioneer.


As I understand it the Twin Pioneer was due to be scrapped (if it hasn’t already been?). I believe other aircraft remain flyers including some of the jets although some of these have gone abroad. I agree the break up is hugely disappointing - many will recall in particular the wonderful events of 2015 including the visit of XH558 - what a day that was! Sad to think what has happened since then.
106500

Re: G-APSA

Postby Brevet Cable on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 7:03 pm

As I understand it the Twin Pioneer was due to be scrapped (if it hasn’t already been)

Didn't they have two ( one airworthy, one not ) or was that someone else?
Meh !!
Not an enthusiast or a spotter
trollpikken fforwm swyddogol
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Brevet Cable

Re: G-APSA

Postby Domvickery on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 7:44 pm

They do (or did) have a second airframe in their off base storage barn but that had never been to CVT
Inventor of the baguette scale
Domvickery
UKAR Staff

Re: G-APSA

Postby Skymonster on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 8:40 pm

Last I heard (not direct from the horse's mouth, admittedly), three of Sierra Alpha's four engines had siezed and the props could not be moved by hand. If this is true, let alone the cost of the corrosion repairs mentioned by Cameron and the suggested spar work, it points to a lot of money being needed to get her anywhere near to her former glory. Very sadly, with no prospect of there being a viable collection on the airfield at CVT in the future (no criticism of MAM intended), and the prohibitive cost of moving such a large airframe by road, these challenges point to her being on borrowed time at best. I do not blame Mike Collett - he did wonders keeping so many classic aircraft alive in the UK for so long, but at some time he had to hand the mantle on. More the problem is that no one (or collection of individuals, or group) has stepped up to the plate to keep the collection intact. And as always it comes down to the pirrennial challenge - money, and in this case I fear lots of it.

As for the others, I'm particularly disappointed that Primrose remains grounded with her wings clipped, as I flew in her several times and still have a soft spot for her. I hope someone will find the funds to manufacture the new wing struts she badly needs to take to the air again (parts from another airframe failed to solve the problem given that Twin Pins were not manufactured in production jigs), but in reality I fear for her too as she hardly represents a type with far-reaching interest... At least she would be easier to move by road, should a generous benefactor offer her a place as a static exhibit...
Skymonster

Re: G-APSA

Postby neville on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 9:24 pm

What a very sad tale of a grand old machine.

G-APSA was probably the aircraft that first got me hooked on aviation, initially as a spotter and later on as a photographer.

I saw her parked at Elmdon on my birthday, i had asked to be taken up to the airport, as a treat, sometime around 1959/1960.

It was wonderful to see her restored and just down the road from me at Baginton, now really does feel like the end of an era....
neville

Re: G-APSA

Postby wv383 on Sat 27 Jan 2018, 12:40 am

Brevet Cable wrote:
As I understand it the Twin Pioneer was due to be scrapped (if it hasn’t already been)

Didn't they have two ( one airworthy, one not ) or was that someone else?


Yes, you are correct but I don't know what happened to the other airframe. I thought it was originally for use as a spares source but read on as for why that can't happen, particularly for wing spar pins. 'Primrose' - G-APRS - was at the time the world's only airworthy Twin Pioneer. Since the spar problem with that aircraft there are now none airworthy. With the problems of getting the spar fixed due to the fact that the pins are not 'one size fits all' this is the reason that there has been nothing done for years. The problem is getting the parts made as they would be bespoke to one aircraft only. There was a rumour months back - and we know what rumours are like! - that it had been sold to the same owner that bought one of the other CAF aircraft that went to Ireland (off the top of my head I now can't remember which one that was).

What I read in an article on the Twin Pin some years back, although being a production aircraft parts should have been the same for all the production airframes, in fact they weren't. If something was a bit of a tight fit, then they would be filed to fit hence, the pins on every aircraft were a different size. Years ago there was talk of some non-airworthy examples in other other parts of the world so why couldn't they either be robbed for parts for 'Primrose' or at least be measured for sizing purposes but for reasons I have mentioned this couldn't happen.

As for scrapping, it would be a shame if it happened but can it actually be saved. Hopefully so but time must surely be running out.
Simon
wv383

Re: G-APSA

Postby Skymonster on Sat 27 Jan 2018, 8:26 am

wv383 wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:
Yes, you are correct but I don't know what happened to the other airframe. I thought it was originally for use as a spares source but read on as for why that can't happen, particularly for wing spar pins. 'Primrose' - G-APRS - was at the time the world's only airworthy Twin Pioneer. Since the spar problem with that aircraft there are now none airworthy. With the problems of getting the spar fixed due to the fact that the pins are not 'one size fits all' this is the reason that there has been nothing done for years..


The Aussie Twin Pin VH-SYS (ex VH-EVB) is airworthy and has flown recently. Classic Flight did acquire some spare wing struts from another aircraft to install on Primrose, but they didn't fit - hence the need to manufacture new ones at a rather prohibitive cost. They also had G-AZHJ off site - as far as I am aware nothing has happened to it recently.

I suspect neither the Twin Pin nor the DC-6 are sufficiently compelling types to inspire the masses to donate to support their restoration to airworthy status now both have been on the ground for so long.
Skymonster

Re: G-APSA

Postby Beech18Boy on Sat 27 Jan 2018, 7:08 pm

Was at Coventry in November and they offered it for a Pound. It’s a real shame about it being scrapped.

Also the Twin Pin isn’t being scrapped it’s going to Scotland to be a caravan.
Beech18Boy

Re: G-APSA

Postby Georgeconna on Sat 27 Jan 2018, 11:56 pm

Also the Twin Pin isn’t being scrapped it’s going to Scotland to be a caravan. christ :dunno:
Cheers

George

Zero shows for 2018 Giving in a Rest.
Georgeconna

Re: G-APSA

Postby MingtheMerciless on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 7:54 pm

Beech18Boy wrote:Was at Coventry in November and they offered it for a Pound. It’s a real shame about it being scrapped.

.


Can I ask what aircraft was offered for £1 - the DC-6? Also, who were the 'they' that offered it?

Thanks
MingtheMerciless

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