Scampton Airshow 2018

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby CJS on Wed 16 May 2018, 6:08 am

Well you can't all be right. Maybe the quote from the article is referring to an original expectation, which was then adjusted when the planning had got further down the line or something? Either way, DBH have no reason to actually lie or make up excuses, that wouldn't help then in any way would it.

Harkins: discalculia is the mathematical (or at least numerical) equivalent of dyslexia. It's only relatively recently that it's become better recognised.
"Forewarned is forearmed"
How do you know I didn't?
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CJS

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby harkins on Wed 16 May 2018, 8:51 am

CJS wrote:Maybe the quote from the article is referring to an original expectation, which was then adjusted when the planning had got further down the line or something?


That's possibly true given the interview was published in November 2016 - a full 10 months prior to the show. This is the interview with Airshow Director Paul Sall. It should also be noted that the quote as published states; "developing the airfield's infrastructure so that it can support the arrival of more than 25,000 people, as well as aircraft of all shapes and sizes." More than could ultimately be anything.

Thanks for the dyscalculia info. Have to admit that in truth with me it's more just a case of not being either that good or interested in math and suffering that common condition of panicking and grabbing for the nearest calculator when faced with some mathmatics in public.
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harkins

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby XP282 on Wed 16 May 2018, 12:31 pm

All I can say is that we were talking about those ‘restricted’ ticked sales for year 1 a lot closer to the event than 10months.

It would be intersting to see when the annual accounts are made available just how big the loss was.
XP282

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby RIAT Air Ops on Wed 16 May 2018, 7:59 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Scampton was too expensive for what was a seaside line-up with knobs on.

At worst it was a cynical, lazy, tossed-off-in-their-tea-break-from-RIAT, it'll-do effort which failed to hoodwink those with the intelligence to see it for exactly what it was.


With that quote Dan you have spectacularly insulted a huge number of people who worked their backsides off to deliver the event. I'm not going to debate the pros and cons of it on here with you as you clearly feel you are best placed to make judgement, you're not.

For the record that is my view not that of RAFCTE/RIAT/Scampton Airshow.
RIAT Air Ops

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby XP282 on Wed 16 May 2018, 10:01 pm

RIAT Air Ops. Interesting to see that you still read the Scampton thread.

Can you please answer a couple of questions?

How many tickets were you really hoping to sell over the course of the weekend?

Is there any realistic prospect of the show returning in 2019

Many thanks
XP282

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby RIAT Air Ops on Thu 17 May 2018, 11:39 am

XP282 wrote:RIAT Air Ops. Interesting to see that you still read the Scampton thread.

Can you please answer a couple of questions?

How many tickets were you really hoping to sell over the course of the weekend?

Is there any realistic prospect of the show returning in 2019

Many thanks


I dip into it when time allows.

The UKAR team asked those questions, suggest the answers are within the recent piece.
RIAT Air Ops

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby XP282 on Thu 17 May 2018, 11:57 am

RIAT Air Ops wrote:
XP282 wrote:RIAT Air Ops. Interesting to see that you still read the Scampton thread.

Can you please answer a couple of questions?

How many tickets were you really hoping to sell over the course of the weekend?

Is there any realistic prospect of the show returning in 2019

Many thanks


I dip into it when time allows.

The UKAR team asked those questions, suggest the answers are within the recent piece.


With respect, if the answers were written in the piece then I wouldn't have asked the question!

If I asked you today can you guarantee that RIAT 2019 will go ahead, you would have to say no.... Nothing is guaranteed. So of course you cant make any guarantees over Scampton 2019 either. That is a very different question to mine... What I was asking is, 'Is there any realistic prospect of the show returning in 2019'?

Secondly, I was just hoping you would be able to clarify the figures re tickets. There are clearly mixed messages out there over how many you expected to sell. Residents etc were being told it was a maximum of 50,000. Were they given wrong information?

Sorry, there noting underhand in the questions and if they had been answered in the article then I wouldn't have asked them.
XP282

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby RIAT Air Ops on Thu 17 May 2018, 12:17 pm

XP282 wrote:
RIAT Air Ops wrote:
XP282 wrote:RIAT Air Ops. Interesting to see that you still read the Scampton thread.

Can you please answer a couple of questions?

How many tickets were you really hoping to sell over the course of the weekend?

Is there any realistic prospect of the show returning in 2019

Many thanks


I dip into it when time allows.

The UKAR team asked those questions, suggest the answers are within the recent piece.


With respect, if the answers were written in the piece then I wouldn't have asked the question!

If I asked you today can you guarantee that RIAT 2019 will go ahead, you would have to say no.... Nothing is guaranteed. So of course you cant make any guarantees over Scampton 2019 either. That is a very different question to mine... What I was asking is, 'Is there any realistic prospect of the show returning in 2019'?

Secondly, I was just hoping you would be able to clarify the figures re tickets. There are clearly mixed messages out there over how many you expected to sell. Residents etc were being told it was a maximum of 50,000. Were they given wrong information?

Sorry, there noting underhand in the questions and if they had been answered in the article then I wouldn't have asked them.


Understood and with respect to you tickets and the associated messages are not my area so that's something for our marketing people. 2019? There's a whole raft of considerations before anyone can say its a realistic prospect.

I'm not being evasive here, I'm being honest. I know that's not what you want to hear but I'm not going to come onto a forum and say yes, it's realistic. It's as Andy said in the interview.
RIAT Air Ops

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby disgruntled on Fri 18 May 2018, 8:45 am

RIAT Air Ops wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:Scampton was too expensive for what was a seaside line-up with knobs on.

At worst it was a cynical, lazy, tossed-off-in-their-tea-break-from-RIAT, it'll-do effort which failed to hoodwink those with the intelligence to see it for exactly what it was.


With that quote Dan you have spectacularly insulted a huge number of people who worked their backsides off to deliver the event. I'm not going to debate the pros and cons of it on here with you as you clearly feel you are best placed to make judgement, you're not.

For the record that is my view not that of RAFCTE/RIAT/Scampton Airshow.


Yet again the "professional" journalist sinks to his standard gutter press language with comments that wouldn't look out of place in any of the publications that he so ritually lambasts. Really Dan, it is about time that you learnt the old adage, "If you have nothing constructive to say, say nothing at all". Constructively criticize by all means. Add thoughts for debate certainly. However; with almost every post, you bully, sensationalize and very often contradict your views from other posts. It's almost as if you have some sort of narcissistic need to post deliberately inflammatory or sensationalist comments just to create faux outrage.
disgruntled

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby BossMann on Fri 18 May 2018, 2:16 pm

RIAT Air Ops wrote:
XP282 wrote:
RIAT Air Ops wrote:
XP282 wrote:RIAT Air Ops. Interesting to see that you still read the Scampton thread.

Can you please answer a couple of questions?

How many tickets were you really hoping to sell over the course of the weekend?

Is there any realistic prospect of the show returning in 2019

Many thanks


I dip into it when time allows.

The UKAR team asked those questions, suggest the answers are within the recent piece.


With respect, if the answers were written in the piece then I wouldn't have asked the question!

If I asked you today can you guarantee that RIAT 2019 will go ahead, you would have to say no.... Nothing is guaranteed. So of course you cant make any guarantees over Scampton 2019 either. That is a very different question to mine... What I was asking is, 'Is there any realistic prospect of the show returning in 2019'?

Secondly, I was just hoping you would be able to clarify the figures re tickets. There are clearly mixed messages out there over how many you expected to sell. Residents etc were being told it was a maximum of 50,000. Were they given wrong information?

Sorry, there noting underhand in the questions and if they had been answered in the article then I wouldn't have asked them.


Understood and with respect to you tickets and the associated messages are not my area so that's something for our marketing people. 2019? There's a whole raft of considerations before anyone can say its a realistic prospect.

I'm not being evasive here, I'm being honest. I know that's not what you want to hear but I'm not going to come onto a forum and say yes, it's realistic. It's as Andy said in the interview.



Firstly RIAT AirOps and all the team at DBH/ RAFCTE

Thank you for delivering a new airshow for the UK last year. Hopefully after the dust settles from the RAF100 RIAT you will consider staging another show at Scampton next year for the Red Arrows 55th Anniversary - you could target Red Arrows 'friends' and attract foreign aerobatic teams - a 'meet' of international aerobatic teams mixing it with the top foreign solo/ duo/ heli displays - a proper military airshow at an iconic RAF base.

So it would different to RIAT but still unique - similar to the recent shows held to celebrate the european display teams birthdays. You could even change the name so that it can be differentiated from the Scampton Airshow 2017 if you wanted, a bit like starting from scratch..

Could you go back to Waddington or is that still not possible?

I am keeping my fingers crossed for 2019 - we already know that Sanicole have moved their show a week later than in 2017 leaving that weekend open for Scampton/ Waddington/ wherever....
BossMann

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby MiG_Eater on Fri 18 May 2018, 2:35 pm

BossMann, your idea is so obviously a good one it's just the kind of thing that might just get dismissed out of hand!

P.S. I think £39.00 for any airshow is good value for money...
MiG_Eater

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby andrewn on Wed 30 May 2018, 7:07 pm

Undoubtedly ticket pricing WAS an issue and will have been the prime reason many stayed away. The family fun day theme just doesnt cut it when you are being asked to fork out £80 just to get through the door, knowing full well that said family will probably spend at least another £50 on programme, overpriced food and drink,etc. £100+ IS a lot for a family fun day and RIAT either need to change the offering or the pricing.

Regards the offering, some good ideas in posts above about how the show could be made more appealing to both enthusiasts and general public alike, which I think RIAT would be well advised to consider.

Of course, what would help massively would be if our own MoD could dip their hands into the till and provide significantly more support, both in terms of content and direct financial help. Unlikely, of course, but it has to be said!

Just for the record I did attend the show and enjoyed it, but in future would expect either a truly international show, or a reduction in entry price.

Just my opinion, as always.
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andrewn

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby andrewn on Wed 30 May 2018, 7:21 pm

harkins wrote:
CJS wrote:Maybe the quote from the article is referring to an original expectation, which was then adjusted when the planning had got further down the line or something?


That's possibly true given the interview was published in November 2016 - a full 10 months prior to the show. This is the interview with Airshow Director Paul Sall. It should also be noted that the quote as published states; "developing the airfield's infrastructure so that it can support the arrival of more than 25,000 people, as well as aircraft of all shapes and sizes." More than could ultimately be anything.

Thanks for the dyscalculia info. Have to admit that in truth with me it's more just a case of not being either that good or interested in math and suffering that common condition of panicking and grabbing for the nearest calculator when faced with some mathmatics in public.


My recollection is that 25k per day was the self imposed year 1 "cap", which I thought at the time seemed incredibly low, so the fact they appear to have subsequently revised that upwards does not surprise me. The cynic in me thinks the original 25k/day cap was probably more of a marketing tool to stimulate demand than anything else :)
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andrewn

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby BossMann on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 9:24 am

Excellent RAF Cosford Airshow this year with Excellent Foreign participation with Polish MIG 29, French Rafale, Belgian F16, RNZAF 757, Red Bull Bo105 & Sycamore in the flying.

SOLD OUT due to excellent flying line up plus ground/ static displays

60,000 spectators in 1 day. Tickets £29pp plus under 16s free. (Scampton 50,000 spectators over 2 days, £39 pp under 16s free )

RAF Scampton is a bigger airfield than RAF Cosford so could it accommodate 50/60,000 spectators on each day??

Maybe RAFCTE/ Scampton Airshow organisers can learn from the RAF Cosford Airshow organisers and adopt their model rather than the RIAT model to make any future show a success?

RAF Cosford model + RIAT 'style' flying display with foreign participation = potential success?
BossMann

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby boff180 on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 2:44 pm

You do know that RAFCTE assist the RAF Cosford team?
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boff180
UKAR Staff

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby BossMann on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 4:37 pm

boff180 wrote:You do know that RAFCTE assist the RAF Cosford team?


Yes but I wasn't sure on their actual level of involvement.

Hopefully they will have had a look at how RAF Cosford do things as part of their evaluation of next years possible return to RAF Scampton. Fairford model vs Cosford model including prices etc....

Hopefully seeing RAF Cosford stage a sold out successful event with 60,000 spectators will encourage RAFCTE to try again at RAF Scampton.

RAFCTE will need to decide by September for 2019 right? Is it end of September when they have to send out the invites for foreign participation/ RAF assets for 2019??
BossMann

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby andrewn on Sun 17 Jun 2018, 7:40 pm

It is an interesting parallel being drawn, and adds weight to the argument that the airshow going public are not stupid. Put something good on, at a reasonable price and people will come. Put something mediocre on at an unreasonable price and people wont come. Not exactly rocket science in my opinion
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andrewn

Re: Scampton Airshow 2018

Postby BossMann on Tue 19 Jun 2018, 3:23 pm

andrewn wrote:It is an interesting parallel being drawn, and adds weight to the argument that the airshow going public are not stupid. Put something good on, at a reasonable price and people will come. Put something mediocre on at an unreasonable price and people wont come. Not exactly rocket science in my opinion


Agree 100%

Maybe with the show being in September the main focus could be the Red Arrows anniversaries at their home base, plus the Battle of Britain anniversary with a 'Biggin Hill' type airfield attack and spitfire scramble set piece with pyrotechnics as the centre-piece with RIAT continuing to do all the other anniversaries ( RAF, NATO, USAF etc...). Having the Battle of Britain theme could hopefully attract the other countries that also participated in the Battle of Britain ( e.g. Polish/ Slovak/ Czech/ French/ Belgian/ Canadian/ South African/ New Zealand/ US Airforces ).

Perhaps they could use farmers fields for parking rather than the Lincolnshire showground if it was so expensive?

Also another thought on RAFCTE organising the show at Scampton - If the RAFCTE feel that it is too much to organise RIAT plus another show at RAF Scampton because they want to focus on RIAT and its too close and they don't want to drain too much of their resources on the RAF Scampton show, which is fair enough, could they 'hand over' the RAF Scampton show to another organisation? Could the RAF Cosford team run the event instead? Could the 'old' RAF Waddington International Airshow team reform and run the event and bring the Waddington airshow to Scampton?

Or does the RAF Scampton show have to be run exclusively by RAFCTE??
BossMann

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