When does a jet become 'Classic'?

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CJS
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Re: When does a jet become 'Classic'?

Post by CJS »

FarnboroJohn wrote:My feeling is that this is entirely subjective, and I wouldn't make a distinction between flying and non-flying, or in/out of service, but my two penn'orth (non-comprehensive lists):

Classic: Me-262, Meteor, Vampire, Sabre, MiG 15, 21 and 25; Canberra, Gnat, EE Lightning, F4 Phantom II, Harrier, B-52, Vulcan, Starfighter, Mirage III, F-14 Tomcat

Not Classic: JP (sorry Chris), MiG 23, Jaguar, A6 Intruder, CF-100, Alpha Jet, Javelin, Su 22 and 25, Etendard, Valiant.

Mostly arguable either way in both lists. Great material for interminable pub discussions!


So why would a Jaguar not be, but a Phantom would (for example)? Just based on your opinion or do you use any criteria?

It's turned out to be more interesting than I expected!!
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ErrolC
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Re: When does a jet become 'Classic'?

Post by ErrolC »

CJS wrote:...

Probably a very small grey area as I can't actually think of any other examples of this, where one country has an example flying privately, whilst others still use them operationally, but just thought it was interesting. In fact, wasn't the US Phantom flying privately at the same time as there still being US examples in active service?

...


There are A-4 Skyhawks flying in private US hands (plus the Draken ones), and it is still in service for e.g. Malaysia.
And a whole bunch of L-39s.

Steve p
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Re: When does a jet become 'Classic'?

Post by Steve p »

Not sure why an example has to be still flying or all withdrawn from service to be called a classic. Classic is not a description of age or current status but a general discripton either personally or from a wider audience of a particular thing, something remembered or thought of in high regard or for other reasons.

FarnboroJohn
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Re: When does a jet become 'Classic'?

Post by FarnboroJohn »

CJS wrote:
FarnboroJohn wrote:My feeling is that this is entirely subjective, and I wouldn't make a distinction between flying and non-flying, or in/out of service, but my two penn'orth (non-comprehensive lists):

Classic: Me-262, Meteor, Vampire, Sabre, MiG 15, 21 and 25; Canberra, Gnat, EE Lightning, F4 Phantom II, Harrier, B-52, Vulcan, Starfighter, Mirage III, F-14 Tomcat

Not Classic: JP (sorry Chris), MiG 23, Jaguar, A6 Intruder, CF-100, Alpha Jet, Javelin, Su 22 and 25, Etendard, Valiant.

Mostly arguable either way in both lists. Great material for interminable pub discussions!


So why would a Jaguar not be, but a Phantom would (for example)? Just based on your opinion or do you use any criteria?

It's turned out to be more interesting than I expected!!


For me the Jag will always be that somewhat underpowered, not very manoeuvrable, short-legged bomb truck, with the Phantom being a multi-role aircraft with proven success in all its roles. That said, by the time it was chopped the Jaguar had upgraded systems that made it a highly effective short-range bomb-truck: as I said it's subjective but the Jag doesn't seem to make it even though I have happy memories and some old small-image photos of them over Llyn Ogwen, well below me on Tryfan's lower slopes.

Spiny Norman
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Re: When does a jet become 'Classic'?

Post by Spiny Norman »

Looking at criteria for what defines a classic car, there is nothing definite, although I like this description used in an article in the Daily Telegraph: "a post-WWII, pre-1980 model of technical or nostalgic merit”.

For aircraft this might mean the Buccaneer would be included but say the Jaguar might not.

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Cole
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Re: When does a jet become 'Classic'?

Post by Cole »

Any Jet that is retired from military use..
Oh wait isn't the MiG 21 still in service in some countries :grin: :grin:
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vulcan558
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Re: When does a jet become 'Classic'?

Post by vulcan558 »

Would say vintage is a good description,
Too old to be considered modern, but not old enough to be considered antique.

Steve p
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Re: When does a jet become 'Classic'?

Post by Steve p »

FarnboroJohn wrote:
CJS wrote:
FarnboroJohn wrote:My feeling is that this is entirely subjective, and I wouldn't make a distinction between flying and non-flying, or in/out of service, but my two penn'orth (non-comprehensive lists):

Classic: Me-262, Meteor, Vampire, Sabre, MiG 15, 21 and 25; Canberra, Gnat, EE Lightning, F4 Phantom II, Harrier, B-52, Vulcan, Starfighter, Mirage III, F-14 Tomcat

Not Classic: JP (sorry Chris), MiG 23, Jaguar, A6 Intruder, CF-100, Alpha Jet, Javelin, Su 22 and 25, Etendard, Valiant.

Mostly arguable either way in both lists. Great material for interminable pub discussions!


So why would a Jaguar not be, but a Phantom would (for example)? Just based on your opinion or do you use any criteria?

It's turned out to be more interesting than I expected!!


For me the Jag will always be that somewhat underpowered, not very manoeuvrable, short-legged bomb truck, with the Phantom being a multi-role aircraft with proven success in all its roles. That said, by the time it was chopped the Jaguar had upgraded systems that made it a highly effective short-range bomb-truck: as I said it's subjective but the Jag doesn't seem to make it even though I have happy memories and some old small-image photos of them over Llyn Ogwen, well below me on Tryfan's lower slopes.


Not sure about that jags was designed from the outset for the short/medium range attack role during the cold war, it served both the French and us very well for over 30 years and the Indian air force still use them 45 years after there into service date. Jaguars have also been used successfully in a number of conflicts so if that don't qualify for CLASSIC status i am not sure what does.

AARDVARK
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Re: When does a jet become 'Classic'?

Post by AARDVARK »

A jet become classic...when it can no longer fly :cool:

borismorris
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Re: When does a jet become 'Classic'?

Post by borismorris »

AARDVARK wrote:A jet become classic...when it can no longer fly :cool:


So British Harriers and Jaguars are though other countries flying examples are not?

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Tmyers123
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Re: When does a jet become 'Classic'?

Post by Tmyers123 »

AARDVARK wrote:A jet become classic...when it can no longer fly :cool:


I see what you mean, but that would mean the entirety of the SwAFHF are not classic, or the Norwegian Vampires, MiG-15 or F-104.

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Re: When does a jet become 'Classic'?

Post by AARDVARK »

I was kinda being sarcastic (lowest form of Witt I know),it just seems like most of the classic aircraft,or at least the ones that spring to mind for myself Lightning,Vulcan,Aardvark lol, are no longer flying,it was also a sad reflection of the current classic jet scene in the U.K. where not to many years back you could see Hunters,Canberra,Sea Vixen,Vulcan,Meteors and alike all regular airshow “civilian”acts,now sadly since post Shoreham consigned to the history books!
But it’s not all doom and gloom ,we have F104 now back on the European scene ,plus Vamps,Gnats,all the Swedish stuff and of course the Harrier/Phantom/Tomcat still going strong with other air-arms,but I divulge.

Alanko
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Re: When does a jet become 'Classic'?

Post by Alanko »

I don't think all jets become classics. Look at the US Century Series. The F-104 Starfighter is a classic! Right? What about the F-101 Voodoo? Errr..... nowhere near as loved.

AARDVARK wrote:...now sadly since post Shoreham consigned to the history books!


No, that is too simplistic a view on things. Classic jet operations on the airshow scene had been winding down slowly in the UK prior to Shoreham. We had already lost the RNHF Sea Hawk, any Canberra representation, and (from memory) any Meteors as well. You're simply dealing with byzantine, idiosyncratic 1950s technology, that didn't exactly have a blemish-free record in military service, kept 'alive' well beyond any sort of intended shelf life. This is a very expensive business, with a fair chunk of problem solving thrown in. The loss of the RNHF Sea Vixen is another nail in the coffin. The repair bill will be massive, and all the time that it isn't in the air and in front of the public it is slowly being forgotten.

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Skylinerworld
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Re: When does a jet become 'Classic'?

Post by Skylinerworld »

Is there no plan to bring the Hawker Sea Hawk back to flying condition again or is it not known?
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Jakub.Zurek
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Re: When does a jet become 'Classic'?

Post by Jakub.Zurek »

Skylinerworld wrote:Is there no plan to bring the Hawker Sea Hawk back to flying condition again or is it not known?


This is what the Navy Wings website says:

RNHF efforts are currently, with limited resources, focused on the Swordfish and then the return to flight of the Sea Fury FB11. Once these goals are achieved the Sea Hawk will be reviewed to establish the work and financial commitment required to return her to flight.


With their focus on also repairing the Sea Vixen (albeit one small piece at a time) I'd say it's very unlikely to see it at all in the foreseeable future :sad:

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Skylinerworld
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Re: When does a jet become 'Classic'?

Post by Skylinerworld »

Thanks for the info, hopefully one day then...
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