Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby effects on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 9:15 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:What this needs is the UKAR Staff team to properly investigate the situation and get face-to-face reaction from the organisers and thoroughly grill them on all aspects of the show - the pricing, the halls shutting and star items disappearing before the weekend, the airspace restrictions, the wafer thin seaside line-ups, the woeful RAF support in their centenary year and above all else the public reaction and perception of the Farnborough brand, and whether the public show has a viable future.

I'd suggest the Staff team should be on this as a matter of urgency while the issue is still "live". Could be an excellent and indeed important article, if UKAR is indeed to be seen as the voice of the paying punter on the crowd line. Hold their feet to the fire.

You are spot on there.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby UKTopgun on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 9:38 pm

There was an RAF Tonka there, they put it out of the way near the BAE Systems prawn sandwich munchers enclosure. Nice send off for the old girl, eh?
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby lynothehammer on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 10:03 pm

UKTopgun wrote:There was an RAF Tonka there, they put it out of the way near the BAE Systems prawn sandwich munchers enclosure. Nice send off for the old girl, eh?


Totally agree, plenty of space down the front where the departed trade show aircraft had departed. Perhaps they didn't have permission from the RAF to move it.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby DerekF on Tue 24 Jul 2018, 3:15 pm

I went on Wednesday and Thursday and would never go on a public day. Fortunately this year my company paid for my visit (first time in 21 Farnboroughs)

Anyway a quick precis of my experience.

Good
- the security at the car park and bus straight to hall 4 - good idea (see bad though)
- being at the Textron enclosure when the A380 landed
- the standard of what did fly
- great viewing on the barrier
- lots more food outlets than previously
- the weather - not raining

Bad
- the bus on the way out on Wednesday - absolutely rammed with no clear idea if we were on the right bus.
- the barrier cul-de sacs. Caught out several times.
- the price of food. £2 for a bottle of water :mad:
- the weather - scorching both days
- static useless for photography - as always
- the pathetically short flying display.
- Only one fast fast jet on Wednesday and that was a 40 year old one. None on Thursday at all.
- No UK built aircraft in the flying display. Precious few in the static. A sign of the times.
- the invisible Harriers


I can understand those that feel short-changed in visiting Farnborough but the show has very definitely turned into a trade only show and I suspect the only result of complaint will be the closure of the show to the public completely. We will all lose out then. 2018 will not go down as classic Farnborough - not even close. Those days are in the past but as a trade show it is still worth visiting.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby parsley on Tue 24 Jul 2018, 8:22 pm

effects wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:What this needs is the UKAR Staff team to properly investigate the situation and get face-to-face reaction from the organisers and thoroughly grill them on all aspects of the show - the pricing, the halls shutting and star items disappearing before the weekend, the airspace restrictions, the wafer thin seaside line-ups, the woeful RAF support in their centenary year and above all else the public reaction and perception of the Farnborough brand, and whether the public show has a viable future.

I'd suggest the Staff team should be on this as a matter of urgency while the issue is still "live". Could be an excellent and indeed important article, if UKAR is indeed to be seen as the voice of the paying punter on the crowd line. Hold their feet to the fire.

You are spot on there.


The reality is it's been primarily a trade show only for at least the last decade with a bone thrown in for the public at the end of the week.I can remember static/flying items departing before the public days for at least 20 years so there's nothing new there.

Put simply as others have said a plane on the ground isn't earning anything (This year the first static item to depart was the Air Baltic A220-300 on the Tuesday evening and on arriving back in Riga later that evening it then operated a scheduled revenue flight to Larnaca !) and Joe Public is hardly likely to bang an order in on the Friday for a new airliner (if they could find the trade stand/chalet still open that is because to put it bluntly the public days are a wipe out for a lot of the exhibitors and so they'll have their staff doing something they think is more productive for the company or indeed travelling back to base for the following week.)

Airspace restrictions seem fairly obvious based on where Farnborough is located.....the F16 display on Wednesday was delayed because he needed a maximum height altitude of 7000ft and the airspace wasn't available at the planned display time.

As other posters have also stated residential housing is creeping nearer and nearer to the airfield fence as the MOD continues it's sell sell sell policy with it's land in the area (Aldershot might still be touted as home of the Army but a lot of the Army have left home) and I can probably see in a number of years time that while there might still be a trade show,there won't be any "display" flying as such,maybe just some sedate flypasts because the encroachment of built areas around the airfield will be such that aerobatic displays will not be possible.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby effects on Thu 26 Jul 2018, 3:29 pm

Spoke to a work mate today he went in on the Saturday with his wife and kids, thoroughly enjoyed the day, highlights, driving experience, jet man, A350 and F16, would go back in a heartbeat. That perfectly illustrates why FIA do what they do.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby farnboroughrob on Thu 26 Jul 2018, 7:47 pm

Local paper has picked up on the negative comments https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/hampsh ... g-14949812 . From what I read on FB it was about 90% negative about the public show.However that is the nature of social media.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby pbeardmore on Fri 27 Jul 2018, 10:43 am

"We host a diverse visitor base, from avid plane enthusiasts to young families, and a lot of work goes into ensuring there is the right mix of attractions and exhibitions to entertain all those visitors.

“Whilst we have also had positive feedback and comments, it is disappointing to hear that this year’s show fell short of some people’s expectations.

"There are aspects of the show that are beyond our control but we understand that expectations of Farnborough are high, so we will be listening to customers' feedback and ensuring we shape the 2020 Airshow to try and address them.”
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Fri 27 Jul 2018, 12:18 pm

pbeardmore wrote:"We host a diverse visitor base, from avid plane enthusiasts to young families, and a lot of work goes into ensuring there is the right mix of attractions and exhibitions to entertain all those visitors.

“Whilst we have also had positive feedback and comments, it is disappointing to hear that this year’s show fell short of some people’s expectations.

"There are aspects of the show that are beyond our control but we understand that expectations of Farnborough are high, so we will be listening to customers' feedback and ensuring we shape the 2020 Airshow to try and address them.”


Nothing but PR guff. Have UKAR arranged a sit-down interview with the organisers yet - NOT with a spokesperson from the PR office?
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby parsley on Fri 27 Jul 2018, 7:43 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
pbeardmore wrote:"We host a diverse visitor base, from avid plane enthusiasts to young families, and a lot of work goes into ensuring there is the right mix of attractions and exhibitions to entertain all those visitors.

“Whilst we have also had positive feedback and comments, it is disappointing to hear that this year’s show fell short of some people’s expectations.

"There are aspects of the show that are beyond our control but we understand that expectations of Farnborough are high, so we will be listening to customers' feedback and ensuring we shape the 2020 Airshow to try and address them.”


Nothing but PR guff. Have UKAR arranged a sit-down interview with the organisers yet - NOT with a spokesperson from the PR office?


Thing is Dan on 3 of the items you mentioned - the halls shutting and star items disappearing before the weekend,and the airspace restrictions...what do you expect FIA to do ? dictate to the exhibitors (their customers) when their aircraft and the staff manning stands can leave ?....and are you suggesting FIA should be telling NATS how to run the airspace ?......fair play to you for wanting to start another crusade though
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby Gonzo230 on Sat 28 Jul 2018, 9:30 pm

parsley wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:
pbeardmore wrote:"We host a diverse visitor base, from avid plane enthusiasts to young families, and a lot of work goes into ensuring there is the right mix of attractions and exhibitions to entertain all those visitors.

“Whilst we have also had positive feedback and comments, it is disappointing to hear that this year’s show fell short of some people’s expectations.

"There are aspects of the show that are beyond our control but we understand that expectations of Farnborough are high, so we will be listening to customers' feedback and ensuring we shape the 2020 Airshow to try and address them.”


Nothing but PR guff. Have UKAR arranged a sit-down interview with the organisers yet - NOT with a spokesperson from the PR office?


Thing is Dan on 3 of the items you mentioned - the halls shutting and star items disappearing before the weekend,and the airspace restrictions...what do you expect FIA to do ? dictate to the exhibitors (their customers) when their aircraft and the staff manning stands can leave ?....and are you suggesting FIA should be telling NATS how to run the airspace ?......fair play to you for wanting to start another crusade though


In terms of airspace we already divert some aircraft off their noise preferential routes during air displays at Farnborough, which in this day and age of anti-aviation/anti-PBN protest is amazing in and of itself.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby farnboroughrob on Sun 29 Jul 2018, 8:31 am

There is radical way of getting a good public show and a shorter trade show. Have public Sat sun, then Mon-Wed trade days. That way all aircraft have to arrive by Friday the public get first look then the trade get their time? Of course you would have to move the date away from RIAT but as there is very little aircraft over lap (2 this year) it may not have much effect? Move it to June so exactly one year after Paris.Just a thought :tumbleweed: .
farnboroughrob

Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby parsley on Sun 29 Jul 2018, 3:22 pm

farnboroughrob wrote:There is radical way of getting a good public show and a shorter trade show. Have public Sat sun, then Mon-Wed trade days. That way all aircraft have to arrive by Friday the public get first look then the trade get their time? Of course you would have to move the date away from RIAT but as there is very little aircraft over lap (2 this year) it may not have much effect? Move it to June so exactly one year after Paris.Just a thought :tumbleweed: .


It's a good idea Rob but I can also possibly see a negative side to it with some manufacturers dropping Farnborough altogether aircraft wise (Paris operates the same as the current set-up - trade first,public later) or turning up as day trips only on the trade days .....a bit of an elephant in the room as well is that until things start going in to play next year no one has any idea if there will be a Brexit effect on the show either.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby UK Airshow Review on Mon 13 Aug 2018, 7:25 pm

  • "Duff Trade" - Jakub Zurek travelled to the Farnborough International Airshow to report for UKAR.

    Image Image Image Image Image
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby Tom105 on Mon 13 Aug 2018, 7:33 pm

Fair review I think, embarrassing that Farnborough would not respond to the view of the public!
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby Stagger2 on Wed 15 Aug 2018, 12:22 am

A fair report on the double-serving of mediocrity I think! From the Report "it would be a sad shame to see this airshow go," Not so, I would suggest? It limps along as a shadow of its former Glory-days & much like a wounded animal should be put out of its misery. With the restrictions now placed on the event due to the over-developed surroundings of Farnborough, this venue is untenable on several levels but primarily that the Trade can't see their future purchase fly anywhere close to its max' performance. Some might ask if this is relevant as 'Grockles per Kg fuel -vs- distance' is the decider these days. Then logically question why have a trade-show at Farnborough then, when Berlin & Paris are better locations, even before Brexit? It's not even that they're trying to sell uniquely British aircraft as we no longer build anything Customers want.
Turning to the Public-days OR the Air-show that never was! How they can fill an air-show with vintage aircraft & continue calling themselves "the world's best air-show" repeatedly? Allowing for the development of the only reheat capable display by the F-16 (twice!) it should be remembered its debut was 40 years ago at Farnborough, 'nothing new to see folks!' IIRC only the A350-1000, Red Bull Racers & possibly the 'Blades' a/c were made this Millennium. Even 'Joe Public was asking where are the big airliners, F-35 & Red Arrows displays. The tempo of activity allied to the many extended gaps between displays led to several families leaving early especially in the vicious cocktail of bored children, overheating, dehydration, & the sombre feeling they'd been mugged when the 'Reds' took-off & went home. Add to that the fact that the flying display was only one click above a free seaside display completed in half the time of the FIA charade.
Most surprisingly is that, insofar as I know, there is no Group Litigation* by the Public commenced against FIA for misleading information, spurious & misleading claims, maybe bordering on possible fraud?
(* term used in the UK to describe what are called Class Action or Collective Redress Actions in other legal jurisdictions.)
Stagger2

Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby Finningley Boy on Wed 15 Aug 2018, 7:27 am

:cuppa: Stagger 2,

I've suggested to the organisers, admittedly through a jolly sounding PR Lady, that given the current predicament relating to display flying restrictions, the most likely airfield to move the air show to, I'd have thought, would be Boscombe Down down the road!? :biggrin: Doubtless there'll be some insurmountable reason why this can't be so. However, as matters stand the SBAC show organisers should, for the sake of restoring the event to anything like its halcyon days, or even the standard of 20 to 30 years ago when the first week of September was the regular schedule, then they are going to have to look for another more suitable venue. Either that or flatten all the infrastructure which has gone up in the last 20 or more years! :clap:

FB
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby farnboroughrob on Thu 16 Aug 2018, 6:13 pm

There will be no venue change end off. They have just spent many millions on a brand new hall one. This will allow permanent year round exhibitions not just a event every two years. I have predicted for many years that this will end up as a 3/4 day trade only event with no flying display. Look at EBACE and NBAA, massive executive jet trade shows, no need for a flying display. Remember 95%+ of the farnborough exhibitors do not make aircraft, they make parts and provide services so they have no product to fly. There will always be a need for trade shows for networking and corporate hospitality. Just as it was said 15 years ago that video conferencing would be the big thing there is still a need for face to face meetings. The public show's days are numbered but I think the trade show will still be at farnborough in 20 years.
farnboroughrob

Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby Amp on Thu 16 Aug 2018, 7:50 pm

Farnboroughrob I would tend to agree. Anyone looking for the halcyon days when the UK had a leading aircraft manufacturing business should be at Bruntingthorpe this weekend seeing 1950's classic jets. Things change. This is positive, we now have many weekends to see aircraft from multiple decades all across the country.
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