RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

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Unknown74
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Unknown74 »

What do the RAF have against us seeing the F-35? Do they not trust us or something? We’re not even allowed to see an RAF one on Static. I seem to think it’s the MoD.

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CJS
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by CJS »

I very much doubt they have anything against us seeing it. All sorts of reasons they didn't or couldn't or wouldn't send one, none of which we'll ever know 👍🏼
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Unknown74 »

Ok thank you.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by rockfordstone »

wow. what a week that was

some absolutely stunning displays over the course of the weekend, really felt like a proper RIAT. i know some people on various social media outlets are moaning but for me it really was a great show.

now just need to decide whether i want to do FRIAT again next year or just go with normal tickets.

already hyped for next year.

now just to go through a mountain of photos from the 6 days

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by rockfordstone »

jasonT1981 wrote:
Mon 18 Jul 2022, 4:07 pm
vbombers2 wrote:
Mon 18 Jul 2022, 4:01 pm
Have to agree about grandstand etiquette, some frankly obnoxious people there this weekend.
I do feel bad for those who had to hear what I said back to the guy, but at least 3 told me I was right for challenging him over it. I probably looked bad too, to those looking on but didn't get the full jist of it because I was angry. But hey-ho. It's over with and hopefully next year it won't be as bad.
i must admit, it was my first time in FRIAT and i saw a lot of people standing up at various points. also saw a few people getting angry with the people on the gate because we were not getting in fast enough.
i know it was warm but some people needed to check their manners

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Hussar076 »

HeyfordDave111 wrote:
Thu 19 May 2022, 12:35 pm
Now i will get shot down for this (very apt on an aviation forum i guess), but i'm feeling a tad Me-eh!

Lots of props turning and dissapearing in the expance of a Fairford Sky, and i think the show is a little lightweight, compared to previous years.

Now, before anyone says it, yes i am aware that grey is the new camouflage, and that F-35's are the new 'norm', and if you like Helo's then there's a treat or 3 in the mix for you......... but...... is there a real standout display item apart from (TBC) , the black Eagles?

Hoping for greek and turkish phantoms, and spanish F-5's, and Whitmund A4's, but more than likely it will be stuff that's gonna be around for longer than i have left on this planet.

So it's (so far), a M-eh, from me, sorry.
Completely agree, I was a bit disappointed in this year’s show, considering it’s the USAF 75th, big lack of USAF flying, no heavies flying no C17, B52’s cancelled, no Raptors etc etc. As has been mentioned too much small Prop aircraft, frankly it’s boring, we come for unusual fast jet and heavy action. I’ll give it a miss next year and see how it develops

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by cg_341 »

Hussar076 wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 7:41 am
I’ll give it a miss next year and see how it develops
Yes good choice 👍

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by FTS »

This years RIAT was the first time i've done the full 6 days, and the first time i've done FRIAT. I made the decision due to it being the USAF 75th, and after attending the 60th in 2007, i expected a similar level of support, hence me deciding to go all in with a Mach 3 package.

All in all, i did really enjoy the week, but i'm not sure i would feel that way if this was not my first time doing arrivals and departures, etc. I think some of the gems in the static and seeing them in the air, made up for a lot of the disappointment at the lack of USAF support. There were times on Sunday when i took it easy down at the west end and couldn't help but grin at some of the aircraft parked around me.

As for FRIAT, honestly, not sure if i'd do it again. I was helping someone who was wheelchair bound and had the fortune of being able to have a front row seat with room if i wanted it. I tried the grandstand on Friday and didn't really enjoy the experience. The seats are not wide enough for some of the customers who use it... and i was very cramped. I had the wonderful experience of a very arrogant Dutch group sat behind me, one of which chose the sit on my head 5 times and did not give a damn about it or apologise! Manners i found overall in FRIAT to be very disappointing. Wooing like an idiot and clapping like a seal during displays, knowing that people around them were filming. Standing and watching disabled people get stuck on the grass and not offering to help. Selfish idiots standing in front of peoples shots and walking in front of people filming. I expected better considering FRIAT is meant to be a sort of community full of regulars and an etiquette is meant to be in place.

I worked at the show back in 2009 and did some of the departures, and i remember the helicopters would swing by FRIAT, regardless of where they departed from. It was also a lot busier then with constant aircraft leaving, yet this was accommodated. This year, it seemed a lot slower pace yet bar the odd few, most helicopters lifted from the P & V ends and disappeared. I wouldn't normally care about that much about the common types but i would have thought some accommodation would have been made for the more rare types such as the Sea Stallion and Dauphin, the Stallion being one of the aircraft i was looking forward to seeing in the air most during the week. I did appreciate the runway switch though which for whatever reason it was done, placed the sun on the right side for the departures, so bonus.

So overall, i enjoyed the week and would do 6 days again. I would consider a reduced FRIAT package but as its now effectively Mach 3 or nothing, i'm not sure if that's something i want to do.
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JJC
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by JJC »

Hussar076 wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 7:41 am
HeyfordDave111 wrote:
Thu 19 May 2022, 12:35 pm
Now i will get shot down for this (very apt on an aviation forum i guess), but i'm feeling a tad Me-eh!

Lots of props turning and dissapearing in the expance of a Fairford Sky, and i think the show is a little lightweight, compared to previous years.

Now, before anyone says it, yes i am aware that grey is the new camouflage, and that F-35's are the new 'norm', and if you like Helo's then there's a treat or 3 in the mix for you......... but...... is there a real standout display item apart from (TBC) , the black Eagles?

Hoping for greek and turkish phantoms, and spanish F-5's, and Whitmund A4's, but more than likely it will be stuff that's gonna be around for longer than i have left on this planet.

So it's (so far), a M-eh, from me, sorry.
Completely agree, I was a bit disappointed in this year’s show, considering it’s the USAF 75th, big lack of USAF flying, no heavies flying no C17, B52’s cancelled, no Raptors etc etc. As has been mentioned too much small Prop aircraft, frankly it’s boring, we come for unusual fast jet and heavy action. I’ll give it a miss next year and see how it develops
But there were several fast jets on during most of the hourly slots on the schedule…some having appeared only once or twice in the last decade (Hungarian Gripen, Spanish F-18), and some having never appeared before (Austrian Typhoons).

I’m sorry but I do question whether anyone complaining about the props actually watched their routines.

It isn’t all about fast jets, and there were some equally impressive routines from the likes of the Hungarian Hind (where else can you see that?), Slovenian PC-9 (absolutely superb display) and Finnish Hawk (again, a great routine showing how much missed the RAF solo jet trainer displays are)

Re the above:
- Greek Phantoms do not display.
- Turkish Phantoms do not display.
- Wittmund A-4s do not display.
- Spanish F-5s do not display.
- No C-17 has displayed at RIAT since 2010(?) and although there is a US demo, it seems to operate on a limited basis.

We have had them all on static at Fairford in the last couple of years, if they came every single year wouldn’t they also become more of the same old, same old?

We’ve had F-22s display multiple times in the last decade and no doubt it’ll come again in future. Same as the F-35.

Variety is the spice of life.

The lineup was one of the most varied, interesting and diverse we have seen from RIAT in quite some time and showcased what the show is all about - rare and unusual military items coming together from around the world for one weekend a year.

JJC
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by pbeardmore »

I fully realise everyone is entitled to an opinion and I love this forum but sometimes I dispair re the "glass half empty" perspective. Putting together a project the size of RIAT is a huge task. To make the extra effort to get in aircraft that make the difference is huge. I won't go though the list but it's clear that they really did try and succced in bringing in "special" highlights. I get the feeling that, for some, there will always be a list of what wasn't there rather than enjoy what was. This is a philosophy that goes beyond airshows and extends into life itself (especially post COVID) - let's be grateful and enjoy what we have and be grateful for those who make it happen. End of mini-rant.
Last edited by pbeardmore on Tue 19 Jul 2022, 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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roger
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by roger »

FTS wrote:
Mon 18 Jul 2022, 8:58 pm
FGR2 wrote:
Mon 18 Jul 2022, 8:32 pm
Kip Casper wrote:
Mon 18 Jul 2022, 8:16 pm
When did the F86 depart? Didn’t see it today.

Sore point :( They had switched from 09 to 27, so I sat at P&V West for ages waiting for it, only to see it join at the northern intersection and take off on 09.

I am guessing about 2pm.
I had similar disappointment sat in FRIAT, watching the Sea Stallion lift from the west end and disappear into the distance. At least I got it arriving.
I also didn't see the Sea Stallion depart - maybe that's because there wasn't a Sea Stallion at the show!

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by roger »

Unknown74 wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 5:29 am
What do the RAF have against us seeing the F-35? Do they not trust us or something? We’re not even allowed to see an RAF one on Static. I seem to think it’s the MoD.
I wonder if there is something very specific about the F-35B rear-end that is still a bit "sensitive", perhaps to do with the rotating nozzle, and that they want to avoid detailed close-up photos. The US Marine Corps F-35Bs in the static at Yuma show in 2019 were parked so that no-one could see their rear-ends. Perhaps there isn't the same "issue" with the F-35A?

Just a thought.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Domvickery »

roger wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 9:26 am
Unknown74 wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 5:29 am
What do the RAF have against us seeing the F-35? Do they not trust us or something? We’re not even allowed to see an RAF one on Static. I seem to think it’s the MoD.
I wonder if there is something very specific about the F-35B rear-end that is still a bit "sensitive", perhaps to do with the rotating nozzle, and that they want to avoid detailed close-up photos. The US Marine Corps F-35Bs in the static at Yuma show in 2019 were parked so that no-one could see their rear-ends. Perhaps there isn't the same "issue" with the F-35A?

Just a thought.
They were on static in 2016, granted they were US version under armed guard but they were there
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by verreli »

cg_341 wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 8:24 am
Hussar076 wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 7:41 am
I’ll give it a miss next year and see how it develops
Yes good choice 👍
I've bought my 2023 ticket(s). Horses for courses.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by CJS »

cg_341 wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 8:24 am
Hussar076 wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 7:41 am
I’ll give it a miss next year and see how it develops
Yes good choice 👍
:joy:

My thoughts on the Sunday show this year:

Highlights - many and varied. In the flying I thought The Black Eagles and Frecce were the standout display teams.

The RJF were as tight as anything and I enjoyed seeing the Mustang pair as we were leaving. The Slovenian display was good too.

My overall favourite flying display though was the Italian Spartan, hands down - good to see it back its ridiculous best.

The RAFAT: I'll be honest I had no expectations after what others had said so maybe that's why I still enjoyed them (commentary was a bit flat of course but even that I felt did have a bit of enthusiasm).

Me and my son both really enjoyed the RAF Typhoon and I actually think it was the best solo fast jet display that I saw.

However, 2 individual moments stuck out:

The Chinook's final 'leap' off the runway when it had finished taxiing backwards - seemed much more dramatic than previous years and there were quite a few 'wows' where we were sitting (whole display was great actually).

The Austrian QRA Scramble take off is one of the single most impressive sights I've ever seen at an airshow - completely awesome.

Static display: there were some completely ridiculous gems in there. I don't need to list them because you all know what I am talking about, but that loop at the green end had to be the most varied static display you'll see anywhere this year. Massive congratulations to DBH for securing what they did.

Down points: none really, other than the B-52 cancellations but nothing anyone from DBH could do about that. I (we) had a thoroughly brilliant day out.

This year I had a very different RIAT and spent much more time in 'the gadget tent' as my son called the Techno Zone, and you know what - it was brilliant. If there are UKARians on here who don't venture in while they are at RIAT I heartily recommend it.

Thanks DBH and everyone involved in this year's show. You nailed it, you really did. See ya next year.
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by roger »

Domvickery wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 9:37 am
roger wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 9:26 am
Unknown74 wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 5:29 am
What do the RAF have against us seeing the F-35? Do they not trust us or something? We’re not even allowed to see an RAF one on Static. I seem to think it’s the MoD.
I wonder if there is something very specific about the F-35B rear-end that is still a bit "sensitive", perhaps to do with the rotating nozzle, and that they want to avoid detailed close-up photos. The US Marine Corps F-35Bs in the static at Yuma show in 2019 were parked so that no-one could see their rear-ends. Perhaps there isn't the same "issue" with the F-35A?

Just a thought.
They were on static in 2016, granted they were US version under armed guard but they were there
Good point - I had forgotten that two USMC F-35B were there, as well as USAF F-35A.

But, were the USMC examples on static? It's six years ago, and my check-list has long since been recycled (as has half my brain, it seems), but wasn't one in the flying display and hence weren't both on the operational apron and parked nose-on to the crowd? All the photos I can find of them on the ground on-line show them nose or side on (but then, rear-end shots are not the most photo-genic!) and either on the flight-line or runway.

Anyone still have the official 2016 checklist which would confirm if they were static or on the flight-lines?

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by RIAT ATC »

Just a quick response to the ‘helicopter departing away from the airfield’ issue.

As anyone who has flown recently on holiday or business, there are a significant number of flow regulations in various airspace sectors around Europe (caused by the situation in Ukraine, ATC staff shortages and other reasons). There were many CTOTs (calculated take off times) for our IFR GAT (General Air Traffic - those using the civilian ATC/airways systems) departures yesterday. A few missed their CTOTs and some had over an hour delay once a new CTOT was issued. I’ve never seen so many CTOTs for RIAT departures.

There were also quite a few flight plan issues causing delays to aircraft that otherwise could have departed and some of these were taxiing out when the problems surfaced.

A significant number of departures had temperature issues, and had told us (or had told Flight Ops and they told us via phone) that they only had x minutes once engines running to depart.

Others had operational tastings that afternoon/evening so needed to be away quickly.

In this heat, when there are those pressures, added to some aircraft aborting take off or cancelling taxi out due to technical problems (thereby blocking in other aircraft who are actually ready to go and possibly already engines running), to use up another one or two minutes to fly a helicopter down the runway sadly isn’t our priority. We do understand the desire (as we’ve said many of us are keen photographers), but we have to have to think of all the other aircraft waiting to go, especially in this heat, who would be watching their departures being delayed when the helicopter could get airborne and depart away from the airfield very quickly.
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by AndyJohn68 »

Hussar076 wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 7:41 am
HeyfordDave111 wrote:
Thu 19 May 2022, 12:35 pm
Now i will get shot down for this (very apt on an aviation forum i guess), but i'm feeling a tad Me-eh!

Lots of props turning and dissapearing in the expance of a Fairford Sky, and i think the show is a little lightweight, compared to previous years.

Now, before anyone says it, yes i am aware that grey is the new camouflage, and that F-35's are the new 'norm', and if you like Helo's then there's a treat or 3 in the mix for you......... but...... is there a real standout display item apart from (TBC) , the black Eagles?

Hoping for greek and turkish phantoms, and spanish F-5's, and Whitmund A4's, but more than likely it will be stuff that's gonna be around for longer than i have left on this planet.

So it's (so far), a M-eh, from me, sorry.
Completely agree, I was a bit disappointed in this year’s show, considering it’s the USAF 75th, big lack of USAF flying, no heavies flying no C17, B52’s cancelled, no Raptors etc etc. As has been mentioned too much small Prop aircraft, frankly it’s boring, we come for unusual fast jet and heavy action. I’ll give it a miss next year and see how it develops
Each to their own, but personally I found the variety excellent this year. I love the excitement of a fast jet, but also enjoy watching a serene and beautifully choregraphed display by the likes of the Swiss PC-7 team. Unfortunately, not many FRIAT members seem to agree as the stand was not very populated for the Swiss and Silver Swallows. I hope next year they go back to changing the programme around a bit so that a display team doesn't have 2 days of displaying to a small crowd.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by rockfordstone »

FTS wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 8:56 am
As for FRIAT, honestly, not sure if i'd do it again. I was helping someone who was wheelchair bound and had the fortune of being able to have a front row seat with room if i wanted it. I tried the grandstand on Friday and didn't really enjoy the experience. The seats are not wide enough for some of the customers who use it... and i was very cramped. I had the wonderful experience of a very arrogant Dutch group sat behind me, one of which chose the sit on my head 5 times and did not give a damn about it or apologise! Manners i found overall in FRIAT to be very disappointing. Wooing like an idiot and clapping like a seal during displays, knowing that people around them were filming. Standing and watching disabled people get stuck on the grass and not offering to help. Selfish idiots standing in front of peoples shots and walking in front of people filming. I expected better considering FRIAT is meant to be a sort of community full of regulars and an etiquette is meant to be in place

So overall, i enjoyed the week and would do 6 days again. I would consider a reduced FRIAT package but as its now effectively Mach 3 or nothing, i'm not sure if that's something i want to do.
this is where my current thought process is. i loved the flexibility having a FRIAT ticket gave me, the free programme, the daily flying lists (apart from friday for some reason). Whilst it got me some great angles for photography, I found the grandstand thoroughly unenjoyable, and that was even taking to account that the seats next to me were never used. i spent thursday, some of friday and saturday out with my friends and it was much more enjoyable.

i don't know whether i had too high expectations of FRIAT, but at this point im seriously considering just doing all 6 days out in the general public. I'm not sure the perks justify the price increase for next year

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by capercaillie »

AndyJohn68 wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 10:20 am
Each to their own, but personally I found the variety excellent this year. I love the excitement of a fast jet, but also enjoy watching a serene and beautifully choregraphed display by the likes of the Swiss PC-7 team. Unfortunately, not many FRIAT members seem to agree as the stand was not very populated for the Swiss and Silver Swallows. I hope next year they go back to changing the programme around a bit so that a display team doesn't have 2 days of displaying to a small crowd.
I think it was perhaps balance needed. Reds and Frecce both on relatively early, Koreans mid afternoon. Leaving the French, Irish and Swiss prop teams to fill the last hour and a half seemed a little unweighted, and a big ask for many to sit out in the sun and watch.

Personally I'd have swapped the Swiss and Italians around on Sunday at least.
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by mavvymoo »

roger wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 9:21 am
FTS wrote:
Mon 18 Jul 2022, 8:58 pm
FGR2 wrote:
Mon 18 Jul 2022, 8:32 pm
Kip Casper wrote:
Mon 18 Jul 2022, 8:16 pm
When did the F86 depart? Didn’t see it today.

Sore point :( They had switched from 09 to 27, so I sat at P&V West for ages waiting for it, only to see it join at the northern intersection and take off on 09.

I am guessing about 2pm.
I had similar disappointment sat in FRIAT, watching the Sea Stallion lift from the west end and disappear into the distance. At least I got it arriving.
I also didn't see the Sea Stallion depart - maybe that's because there wasn't a Sea Stallion at the show!
That big helicopter just to the left of the blue gate as you walked in was definitely calling itself a Sea Stallion - or at least the big information board in front of it did 👍🏼
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by 81TFW »

That was a cracking RIAT. I've been going since the Greenham Common IATs in the 70s and I thought that one was a classic. We're never going to see 25 of a type lined up in a row again, but the sheer variety in the static particularly was amazing. You wanted rarities? How rare is an E-4B? Or an A-4? Or even an An-30? And that was just the west end! The flying had variety, the Black Eagles may have been the star attraction but in my opinion the Frecce were better, and the Austrian QRA demo was fantastic. Hinds, Hip and Hoplite in the flying display - pretty unusual, no?

Air forces are smaller, have fewer types of aircraft, and are pretty committed at the moment. Yet still we had plenty of variety. Well done to all concerned.

On a different note, I still tend to think of the F-16 as a new type, I'm somewhat surprised they've been around for 40+ years and are being replaced, I must be getting old!

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by roger »

mavvymoo wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 11:15 am
roger wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 9:21 am
FTS wrote:
Mon 18 Jul 2022, 8:58 pm
FGR2 wrote:
Mon 18 Jul 2022, 8:32 pm
Kip Casper wrote:
Mon 18 Jul 2022, 8:16 pm
When did the F86 depart? Didn’t see it today.

Sore point :( They had switched from 09 to 27, so I sat at P&V West for ages waiting for it, only to see it join at the northern intersection and take off on 09.

I am guessing about 2pm.
I had similar disappointment sat in FRIAT, watching the Sea Stallion lift from the west end and disappear into the distance. At least I got it arriving.
I also didn't see the Sea Stallion depart - maybe that's because there wasn't a Sea Stallion at the show!
That big helicopter just to the left of the blue gate as you walked in was definitely calling itself a Sea Stallion - or at least the big information board in front of it did 👍🏼
Thanks - good to learn something new every day. I always thought only the USMC ones were "Sea Stallions".

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by mavvymoo »

roger wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 11:27 am
mavvymoo wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 11:15 am
roger wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 9:21 am
FTS wrote:
Mon 18 Jul 2022, 8:58 pm
FGR2 wrote:
Mon 18 Jul 2022, 8:32 pm
Kip Casper wrote:
Mon 18 Jul 2022, 8:16 pm
When did the F86 depart? Didn’t see it today.

Sore point :( They had switched from 09 to 27, so I sat at P&V West for ages waiting for it, only to see it join at the northern intersection and take off on 09.

I am guessing about 2pm.
I had similar disappointment sat in FRIAT, watching the Sea Stallion lift from the west end and disappear into the distance. At least I got it arriving.
I also didn't see the Sea Stallion depart - maybe that's because there wasn't a Sea Stallion at the show!
That big helicopter just to the left of the blue gate as you walked in was definitely calling itself a Sea Stallion - or at least the big information board in front of it did 👍🏼
Thanks - good to learn something new every day. I always thought only the USMC ones were "Sea Stallions".
No. Thank you! I didn’t realise they were named differently by various arms 👍🏼
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by HeyfordDave111 »

is going to sound a bit against the tide, but i do think the RAF typhoon, not only looked awful, but showed just how bad it is display wise when compared to what the RAF should be doing with a front liner (courtesy of the Austrian Display)....add a second one.

The Austrian display was simply devine.... great noise, lots of speed, and what the RAF do every week and thats intercept an 'errant' aircraft.

We should be doing that as a flag waver, how cool would that be?
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