Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Discuss airshows and other aviation events at the Imperial War Museum
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funkygib
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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by funkygib »

So I didn't bail at J11 ignoring the signs asking me to do so but at 8 in the morning why would I? that's just ridiculous.
I'm over the traffic issues now anyway, I have sought therapy and have moved on :clap:

I just want to touch on the freeloader subject though.
We are in the whole enthusiasts of aircraft and over time like many others I am sure, people enjoy the thrill of the chase more so than the day out.
That's why we climb mountains and drive hundreds of miles and spend hundreds of pounds on equipment.
If you could guarantee a decent unhindered vantage point and easy access to the site there would be no issues personally but people have different criteria and expectations.
So what if a minority seek to go and find a different vantage point off site, should they be forced to pay or is it a free country?
I am indifferent to this problem and resent the use of the term freeloader as it makes people saying it sound very superior and righteous.
Not everybody has an endless budget and equally their viewing requirement will be different.
The fact that a lot of folk paid £6 to walk the line is great for the museum but to charge for kids too is a real liberty, I think Duxford got it wrong this time and that they should have a word with themselves if they think otherwise.
The real winners last weekend were those in the naughty fields :worship:
I for one have had more of a thrill planning my photography and executing a trip into a non show area than when I have endured the ridiculous and costly exercise of visiting the showground on display day.
That said, I do like to mooch through the stalls and see whats on static but statics aren't what they used to be either.
I will be selective in my days out in future favoring the venues that work with the enthusiast, these are few but priceless in my mind.
"If you build it, they will come...."
The show dates are dwindling as we have seen and the content is worsening but I doubt it is solely due to the freeloaders robbing the shows of their revenue and suspect it is more to do with poor quality content and p### poor organisation.
The show scene needs a revival in my view.
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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by pbeardmore »

Tommy, you are spot on, some shows are more popular then others but when they have something really special, that clearly creates more demand and Duxford have to be much more flexible re their pricing policy. Of course the problem there is (I am now arguing against myself) is that if you charge a higher price and the star item(s) does not show, the poo has hit the fan!
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LN Strike Eagle
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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by LN Strike Eagle »

All this talk of ticket prices and traffic jams skirts around the real issue of last weekend's show, which is the decision not to book both Lancasters for both days. The disparity between each day's flying programme caused the sellout on Sunday, and the traffic jams etc are all a knock-on from that.

Having seen how other shows had sold out and struggled to cope with the volumes of people, why would Duxford consciously make a decision to lump that all on one day, and not spread it across both?

They were also offered the aircraft to land at the venue, or so it was said on here. The reason given for not taking them up on that offer was parking arrangements and the empty space if they'd been unable to attend - OK, I get that it's a risk, but it's a risk they'll not have another chance of, and is it really any riskier than shipping aircraft across in containers for Legends, only to have them grounded by crosswinds?
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Talldan76
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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by Talldan76 »

Maisie wrote:Going back to the payment of the flightline, does that get busy? I never did it when I went in 2011 but looking back I should have just for the photos.


It was busy on Sunday, for pretty much the entire time it was open (between 9 & 12). I paid and went out on it, but it only took about 40 mins to walk the entire line, taking the photos I wanted etc.

I can't believe that the people that were still on the line when it closed were some of the same people that were on it at 09:00... but maybe I am wrong.

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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by jayne_morris »

funkygib wrote:I just want to touch on the freeloader subject though.

We are in the whole enthusiasts of aircraft and over time like many others I am sure, people enjoy the thrill of the chase more so than the day out.
That's why we climb mountains and drive hundreds of miles and spend hundreds of pounds on equipment.
If you could guarantee a decent unhindered vantage point and easy access to the site there would be no issues personally but people have different criteria and expectations.
So what if a minority seek to go and find a different vantage point off site, should they be forced to pay or is it a free country?
I am indifferent to this problem and resent the use of the term freeloader as it makes people saying it sound very superior and righteous.
Not everybody has an endless budget and equally their viewing requirement will be different.
The fact that a lot of folk paid £6 to walk the line is great for the museum but to charge for kids too is a real liberty, I think Duxford got it wrong this time and that they should have a word with themselves if they think otherwise.
The real winners last weekend were those in the naughty fields :worship:


why do you have a problem with the term freeloader?

as far as i am aware the dictionary definition of a freeloader is, One who does not contribute or pay appropriately, or one who gets a free ride without paying their fair share

as soon as you choose to go to the fields on the south side at duxford you become a freeloader because you are enjoying the show that is organised and paid for by others at no cost to yourself

your comments come across as arrogant, as you are basically saying stuff duxford they are not having a penny of my hard earned but i am still going to take full advantage of the show that you spent time and money organising, says it all really :loser:

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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by FarnboroJohn »

I usually turn up and buy on the day at Duxford. When I realised that wasn't going to be an option I considered going South side. What decided me against that was my estimate of the anticipated traffic.

However, as a regular paying visitor frustrated simply by the early demand, I wouldn't have considered going to the show for free as freeloading (though when I do it as an absolute alternative e.g. as a resident of Farnborough, clearly I am!)

As it was I did Goodwood both days. Saturday turned into an epic stakeout but was great when they did turn up. The haze on Sunday was awful and I should have gone to Hurn instead. Too late now. I did get two doses of two Lancasters thundering around together, and mighty fine it was too.

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pbeardmore
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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by pbeardmore »

Rule Number 1 - all threads about Duxford must eventually end up discussing the naughty field and freeloaders
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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by hmeasures »

All the calls for a longer display, which way would you push it... Starting earlier will be even worse for photography, and probably push more people over into the fields if anything?

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tommo999
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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by tommo999 »

hmeasures wrote:All the calls for a longer display, which way would you push it... Starting earlier will be even worse for photography, and probably push more people over into the fields if anything?


To be fair, the September Show a few years back over-ran until 6:15, so probably that way! Doesn't solve the issue of having ages to wait around however...

May ease outbound traffic flow too!

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Lee606
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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by Lee606 »

Well.... I went both days,one in and one out,Call me a freeloader if you like but i still paid 27.50 x2 on saturday,but on sunday i went straight to the school for the very first time after trying saturday to get tickets for sunday,only to be told,sorry youll have to park over the other side of the road and take your chances.yea..whatever.school on sunday it was!|

Saturday,my alarm went off at 4am and i hit the road,got to Duxford and my car was second from the front,Great! First in ment last out and after hanging around for a bit after the show it still took me 90 mins to get out the car park! didnt get home until nearly 10pm.
Sunday,Left home at the same time,Junction 10 of the M11 slip road was a bit crappy,but thankfully my older car with an overheating tendancy made it to the roundabout and into the school quite easily,I left as the red arrows were displaying and made it straight out and on to the M11 heading for home in about 8mins.

Inside on saturday it was quite full,couldnt get no-where near the fence to get any half decent pics of ground stuff.so just watched from my car instead of squashed in with the rest.
Sunday i had a walk over into the fields and got a Cracking view of the display!

Food...Saturday,small cup of coffee..£2.40!!!!! Bacon roll £3.80!!!!! x2 for both of those.Bacon roll was so over done it was like trying to swallow nails.
Sunday at the school, 2 FREE BIG cups of tea then 50p per cup thereafter.A big fat burger..£2.50!

£27.50 per person on saturday.
£8 for my car and its occupants on sunday at the school.

Additional £6 for the flightwalk,Duxford can shove that.Been a few times before,wasnt paying £12!

well,Ive been to countless airshows at Duxford since 1999 and always paid through the nose everytime.theres my pros and cons,Guess where ill be in future!

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Lee606
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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by Lee606 »

Also to add i was respectful of the farmers crops,I understand hes trying to make a living and i wouldnt want somebody trashing my stuff so i stuck to the grass at the edges of his fields all the way to where i watched the show from,which was also on grass,So no harm done,I wasnt stupid enough to stand under the flightpath either!

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Rampvan
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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by Rampvan »

jayne_morris wrote:why do you have a problem with the term freeloader?

as far as i am aware the dictionary definition of a freeloader is, One who does not contribute or pay appropriately, or one who gets a free ride without paying their fair share

as soon as you choose to go to the fields on the south side at duxford you become a freeloader because you are enjoying the show that is organised and paid for by others at no cost to yourself

your comments come across as arrogant, as you are basically saying stuff duxford they are not having a penny of my hard earned but i am still going to take full advantage of the show that you spent time and money organising, says it all really :loser:


The only way round the freeloading is for the aircraft to be roaded in and out of the event then fly a lot lower than they do now during the display :whistle: :biggrin:

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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

jayne_morris wrote:
why do you have a problem with the term freeloader?

as far as i am aware the dictionary definition of a freeloader is, One who does not contribute or pay appropriately, or one who gets a free ride without paying their fair share

as soon as you choose to go to the fields on the south side at duxford you become a freeloader because you are enjoying the show that is organised and paid for by others at no cost to yourself

your comments come across as arrogant, as you are basically saying stuff duxford they are not having a penny of my hard earned but i am still going to take full advantage of the show that you spent time and money organising, says it all really :loser:


Given that Duxford was full to capacity on Sunday (overfull in my opinion but that is another matter) they didn't lose a penny as a result of people watching from outside!

The very nature of an airshow means that it can be watched from outside the venue. You, I and everybody else have a perfect right to be in any public place we choose. If from there we can see the flying adequately (or in this case better) than those inside then there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it. All the show organiser can do is to make the other aspects of the show sufficiently appealing that enough people are willing to pay to make it viable.

I would be the first to condemn those that go onto private land without permission, especially if that causes damage. It might be that the law is not adequate in deterring this or allowing the removal of "offenders" but that is a much wider issue than just airshows. However I'm cynical about the way the "safety card" is being used here. If it really is not safe to fly then Duxford needs to reach an agreement with the landowners not to use the fields themselves and effectively fence them off. The can't have it both ways.

Finally, having worked within a mile of Duxford for thirty years I am very much aware of how much of a nuisance some of its activities, particularly the airshows, are to the local community. To me this is another strong argument for restricting the capacity down to the attendance at an average show when the traffic management just about copes.

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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by jayne_morris »

Thoughtful_Flyer wrote:Given that Duxford was full to capacity on Sunday (overfull in my opinion but that is another matter) they didn't lose a penny as a result of people watching from outside!

The very nature of an airshow means that it can be watched from outside the venue. You, I and everybody else have a perfect right to be in any public place we choose. If from there we can see the flying adequately (or in this case better) than those inside then there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it. All the show organiser can do is to make the other aspects of the show sufficiently appealing that enough people are willing to pay to make it viable.

I would be the first to condemn those that go onto private land without permission, especially if that causes damage. It might be that the law is not adequate in deterring this or allowing the removal of "offenders" but that is a much wider issue than just airshows. However I'm cynical about the way the "safety card" is being used here. If it really is not safe to fly then Duxford needs to reach an agreement with the landowners not to use the fields themselves and effectively fence them off. The can't have it both ways.

Finally, having worked within a mile of Duxford for thirty years I am very much aware of how much of a nuisance some of its activities, particularly the airshows, are to the local community. To me this is another strong argument for restricting the capacity down to the attendance at an average show when the traffic management just about copes.


I fully understand that Duxford was packed to the rafters on sunday as we were there for about 12 hours and had to suffer the massive queue to use certain toilets and it wasnt just the women that had to queue either, there were some toilets that were quiet but they had no water to flush them so were pretty much unusable

we didnt queue for food as we had food with us so cant comment on price or quality or how long people had to wait

the thing that really annoys me about this board is comments like this

Just use the fields in future, you get a much better view, its free, you don't have to wake up early, the aircraft actually seem to display for you, its better for photography, its closer to the action
Duxford take the piss having to pay to walk around the statics after paying to enter the event, I don't see anywhere like RIAT doing that
Duxford have a thing or two to learn from other events, and until they do so I refuse to pay to go watch an airshow there


The real winners last weekend were those in the naughty fields :worship:
I for one have had more of a thrill planning my photography and executing a trip into a non show area than when I have endured the ridiculous and costly exercise of visiting the showground on display day.
That said, I do like to mooch through the stalls and see whats on static but statics aren't what they used to be either.
I will be selective in my days out in future favoring the venues that work with the enthusiast, these are few but priceless in my mind.
"If you build it, they will come...."
The show dates are dwindling as we have seen and the content is worsening but I doubt it is solely due to the freeloaders robbing the shows of their revenue and suspect it is more to do with poor quality content and p### poor organisation.
The show scene needs a revival in my view.


comments like that are a fingers up to the show organisers saying we are coming to your show but we are going to freeload

I have every sympathy with lee606 who was at the show on saturday and couldn't get tickets for the sunday and decided to go to duxford school rather than take a chance of a walk up ticket on the day, he made an effort to get a ticket but failed he didnt like some say stuff the show i am going to freeload

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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by Domvickery »

jayne_morris wrote:
comments like that are a fingers up to the show organisers saying we are coming to your show but we are going to freeload


Or maybe its a give us a better show with better VFM and people will go back inside, I personally wont pay more than a waddo ticket for a 3.5hr show, give me more and entice me to & I'll gladly pay to go inside
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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by Mictheslik »

An idea to combat the traffic issues from a carless airshow attendee over the last few years.

Encourage more people to use the bus, and put more of them on. Duxford have actually got public transport sorted a lot better than most airshows, but if they were to increase capacity and perhaps offer a discounted entry price for bus users it might take some more of the strain off the car parks.

As a secondary effect it would get rid of some of those windbreak/chair fortresses as you can't carry them on the bus :lol:

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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by WG655 »

Duxford have seriously shot themselves in the foot here. The first issue is booking such a massive crowd-puller (the Lancasters) for just one day of a two-day show. I'm sure attendance wise that would be a big problem even at a show like Fairford or Waddington, so for a smaller show like Duxford to do this is frankly ludicrous. Imagine if Sywell or Little Gransden had been two-day shows and done the same? Either get them for both or don't get them at all. The whole show organisation stinks of greed right now; they are prepared to up the price of tickets, up the price of the flightline walk and fob off the Friends who are faithful to the museum (though I am aware this is being resolved.) They are also prepared to drop the Autumn airshow seemingly permanently yet the three, now two-day events fail to reflect this loss. The flying programme is still the same short length, and the number of participating aircraft and amount of support infrastructure remains the same despite the increased crowds a two-day show generates. The attitude to freeloaders too is ridiculous. A half-arsed 'we don't recommend you freeload' statement fails to combat the problem. Either implement full closures, bans and patrols if it is that serious a problem or adopt an approach similar to Fairford and other shows and simply don't give people who freeload the time of day. It cannot be a coincidence that the only show which sends out 'please don't but we can't stop you' messages in the weeks leading up to the show gets huge crowds outside and dangerous scenes of people instead choosing to view from motorways.

Rant over!

I'm currently a disgruntled Duxford supporter who has supported the museum for a long while now and I'm beginning to feel like I'm losing out more and more. I was unable to attend the show this weekend due to family illness yet hearing of this chaos which seems to have ensued suggests the venue is rapidly going downhill.

Reckon it'll be Old Warden who gets my money next year!

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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by funkygib »

Oh dear Jayne_Morris I have upset you haven't I?
I did actually say I would not return so yes "Stuff Duxford" I left feeling wronged and exploited, not the day out we had planned in our minds.
Duxford simply failed to meet the service levels required.

The man on the wrong side of the fence is clearly pond life in your eyes so where do you stand with train spotters?
Should train spotters be chastised and banned from viewing trains next

As an enthusiast of aircraft these people are my kind of people, I support aviation in general whichever side of the fence it falls and where I choose to spend my money is of nobody's business but mine.
You seem to think you have the right to insist that everybody buys into the show and it's merits.
Have you ever watched someone else's fireworks from your bedroom window? Shame on you if you did :lmao:
You can have an opinion on these matters and we can all discuss them openly, but don't label the person you know nothing about as that might come across to some as conceited.

That's it really. :wave:
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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by jayne_morris »

Funkygib

They say women moan a lot but looking at some of the members on here all you ever read is moan moan moan, there has hardly been a positive post about the weekend show but i for one loved it and for us the weekend went well, we were in the land warfare carpark around 7.30 on both days and yes it was a bit slow getting out both day but it is what it is and due to the volume of people you have to expect and accept some delays

as for the freeloading thing, every year we go to RIAT and we stay at totterdown but we always buy tickets for the two show days, but we do dare to watch the arrivals departures and some of the validation displays from the campsite, I would never go to Fairford and spend all weekend viewing from one of the campsites as many do

shame you have to resort to childish digs about fireworks to try and make yourself look big but if it makes you feel good then hey ho

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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by AlexC »

In all the trips to Duxford Airshows (I didn't go to this one luckily!) that I've been to over the years, I've never had the problems getting in or out that are being discribed here. I'm assuming that it was caused by the Lancaster effect?
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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

Interesting photos in this tread..............
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=63020

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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by funkygib »

It's not all moan moan moan at all, there's often praise for great shows and thanks to organisers, but if you equally have a bad experience, where else is better to advise the rest of the community and organisers than Airshow Review :ninja:

I hope the hard shoulder brigade got tickets, what on earth were they thinking?
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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by Maisie »

WG655 wrote:Duxford have seriously shot themselves in the foot here. The first issue is booking such a massive crowd-puller (the Lancasters) for just one day of a two-day show. I'm sure attendance wise that would be a big problem even at a show like Fairford or Waddington, so for a smaller show like Duxford to do this is frankly ludicrous. Imagine if Sywell or Little Gransden had been two-day shows and done the same? Either get them for both or don't get them at all.



They never shot themselves in the foot, they couldn't book for the two days, end of. :roll:
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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by Vigorous Dragon »

Thoughtful_Flyer wrote:Given that Duxford was full to capacity on Sunday (overfull in my opinion but that is another matter) they didn't lose a penny as a result of people watching from outside!

The very nature of an airshow means that it can be watched from outside the venue. You, I and everybody else have a perfect right to be in any public place we choose. If from there we can see the flying adequately (or in this case better) than those inside then there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it. All the show organiser can do is to make the other aspects of the show sufficiently appealing that enough people are willing to pay to make it viable.

I would be the first to condemn those that go onto private land without permission, especially if that causes damage. It might be that the law is not adequate in deterring this or allowing the removal of "offenders" but that is a much wider issue than just airshows. However I'm cynical about the way the "safety card" is being used here. If it really is not safe to fly then Duxford needs to reach an agreement with the landowners not to use the fields themselves and effectively fence them off. The can't have it both ways.

Finally, having worked within a mile of Duxford for thirty years I am very much aware of how much of a nuisance some of its activities, particularly the airshows, are to the local community. To me this is another strong argument for restricting the capacity down to the attendance at an average show when the traffic management just about copes.



:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Very well said! First point particularly is spot on, I always pay to get into airshows, apart from anything else I love being there, so I feel I'd be missing out if I was just sat outside the show. Long journey or not, overpriced or not, weather good, bad or indifferent, I go to airshows because it makes me happy and I'll continue to do so for the rest of my days. Having said that, I didnt get up at 3am on Sunday and drove for 3 hours for nothing, so if I hadn't been able to get a ticket I would have found somewhere outside the base to watch from. I wasn't going to mak a 320 mile round trip for nothing!

But like you say, Duxford didnt lose out at all on Sunday as it was a total sell out. They were turning people away from what I hear so there was no way of avoiding people watching from outside, of which there were probably a lot more than normal anyway.
Last edited by Vigorous Dragon on Thu 18 Sep 2014, 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Duxford sucked - Sunday Airshow

Post by jayne_morris »

Vigorous Dragon wrote:Very well said! First point particularly is spot on, I always pay to get into airshows, apart from anything else I love being there, so I feel I'd be missing out if I was just sat outside the show. Long journey or not, overpriced or not, weather good, bad or indifferent, I go to airshows because it makes me happy and I'll continue to do so for the rest of my days. Having said that, I didnt get up at 3am on Sunday and drove for 3 hours for nothing, so if I hadn't been able to get a ticket I would have found somewhere outside the base to watch from. I wasn't going to mak a 170 mile round trip for nothing!

But like you say, Duxford didnt lose out at all on Sunday as it was a total sell out. They were turning people away from what I hear so there was no way of avoiding people watching from outside, of which there were probably a lot more than normal anyway.


you went to the airshow with the intention of purchasing a ticket and going into the show, if you were unfortunate and did not get a ticket then that is not really your fault but you tried, in that circumstance we would have done exactly what you suggested, we made the effort to get in but couldn't so lets find somewhere else to watch the show from

It is the people that say no way am i going into the show as it is a rip off, the show is to short, and the content is poor, but they still travel half way across the country to watch the show for free from the outside

I fully expect the september show next year to be busy and we will be buying tickets well in advance and as this year we will get there early and stay late and make the most of what is on offer throughout the day