Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Discuss airshows and other aviation events at the Imperial War Museum
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Dragon Rapide
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by Dragon Rapide »

Tim N - you have put your finger on it. They are volunteers. That means you take the rough with the smooth not that I can recollect an instance of bad communication with the public. Quite the reverse. So it is a problem it's one I have not been aware of.

And I'm not sure why advance ticketing is a fiasco. It's advance ticketing just as it is for countless other events nationwide, weekly. The washout on Saturday was a rare occurrence but it seems to be colouring the adverse reaction. If there had been two sunny days we wouldn't have heard a word about it. A degree of objectivity needs to be applied.

A question to which I don't know the answer - was RIAT advance ticketing in its wash out year -2008 I think?
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cg_341
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by cg_341 »

Dragon Rapide wrote:A question to which I don't know the answer - was RIAT advance ticketing in its wash out year -2008 I think?

If I remember correct, it was advance ticketing but you could also still buy on the gate. They also refunded the advance ticket costs I think? Since then, however, it's been advance tickets only with no chance of a refund if it's cancelled for any reason.

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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by Dragon Rapide »

Thanks, HA. Maybe I've missed it but I don't recall a lengthy discussion about the pros and cons of advance ticketing for RIAT.
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Thoughtful_Flyer
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

Dragon Rapide wrote:Tim N - you have put your finger on it. They are volunteers. That means you take the rough with the smooth not that I can recollect an instance of bad communication with the public. Quite the reverse. So it is a problem it's one I have not been aware of.

And I'm not sure why advance ticketing is a fiasco. It's advance ticketing just as it is for countless other events nationwide, weekly. The washout on Saturday was a rare occurrence but it seems to be colouring the adverse reaction. If there had been two sunny days we wouldn't have heard a word about it. A degree of objectivity needs to be applied.

A question to which I don't know the answer - was RIAT advance ticketing in its wash out year -2008 I think?


Most large weather dependant sporting events e.g Wimbledon (but not Centre Court now it has a roof!), Lords Test Match and one day internationals etc have a money back guarantee if there is less than two hours play.

Obviously though for some people the ticket itself is only a small part of the cost of their day out. No such guarantee will help with travel costs etc.

However, like all insurance, it has to be paid for and is built in to the already expensive ticket which would make a Duxford airshow seem a real bargain!

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sithrity
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by sithrity »

Dragon Rapide wrote:Thanks, HA. Maybe I've missed it but I don't recall a lengthy discussion about the pros and cons of advance ticketing for RIAT.



Yes I thought about that when I was having my moan. Duxford and RIAT are the only two shows I bother with normally.

The main potential difference between the two are if Fairford gets 3 hours of rain and low cloud, we still get a longer days flying than Duxford offers.

I have had similar feelings at RIAT, like on the Saturday in 2011. :mad: :lol:
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stuart n
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by stuart n »

Pat Murphy wrote:Oh and thanks to Stuart? from Colchester for the chat after my mate H had to bug out early.




:wave: :whistle:

The only negative I have is that there was a Christmas tree in the Airspace hangar :mad:

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ted633
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by ted633 »

I personally don't really see the huge issue with the advance ticket only. You can still buy the ticket online at midnight the day before. Surely if you were going to buy on the door you would have made your mind up by then anyway and just buy a ticket the night before? Weather forecasts are very rarely that wrong. I could fully understand people being upset (as I would be) if, for example, the ticket sales closed the week before (No reliability whatsoever in the weather forecast).

Dragon Rapide
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by Dragon Rapide »

Well exactly. If there was no advance booking you'd decide you were going and then nearer the date pick
your day and then buy on the gate. Buying before midnight the previous day makes little or no difference.
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paullangford
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by paullangford »

30% discount for those of us that got wet, thx Duxford for listening :up:

Bosberg
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by Bosberg »

Just received the email from IWM offering 30% off tickets for the May show next year for those that attended on Saturday. A nice gesture and I for one will be there. Accommodation already booked and the weather gods have been asked nicely.

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sithrity
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by sithrity »

That is very honorable, thank you Duxford.
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by Dragon Rapide »

Good call. Will be well appreciated.
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st24
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by st24 »

Nice gesture.. but car parking will be £25..... :smile:
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The Baron
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by The Baron »

Excellent gesture. Can't fault IWM for this.
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by timuss »

Haven't had an email from them all i've had is the one with a survey on.
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strangelookingalien
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by strangelookingalien »

Me too.

Duxford handled the weather excellently on Saturday - with the taxying jets being an excellent addition. They have nothing to compensate for in regards to weather as its a risk we all take with outdoor events.

I would, however, welcome compensation for yet another terrible piece of traffic management at the end of Sunday's show. I can only imagine they were relieved to have the excuse of an accident to blame on the chaos - despite the fact it is regularly just as bad. Year on year I complain to Duxford about this on deaf ears and all it does is make me more inclined to watch from outside. I decided to buy tickets to support the airshow this year because they booked the Sea Vixen. Unfortunately on Sunday, while I really enjoyed the flying, Duxford failed yet again in so many small ways revealing that the management care about selling you tickets - but very little else.

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sithrity
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by sithrity »

timuss wrote:Haven't had an email from them all i've had is the one with a survey on.


Yeah, I'm still waiting. The better half booked the tickets, so she could be telling porkies. She keeps saying she's never going again. :wat:
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cuban8
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by cuban8 »

The only suggestion that might make a difference is a temporary closure of the westbound A505 (no traffic from the M11 roundabout) from say 1630 to 1830. At least cars exiting DX (only allowed to turn left, of course, from the main site) will be unhindered by traffic control during peak movement of exiting cars. Won't be popular with the locals, but if it was well advertised beforehand, then people will be able to make arrangements to avoid or whatever.
We never rush away after the show, and on Sunday we wandered back to the car near the American Museum at 1900 and were out on the A505 within 10 minutes. We were staying in Cambridge, so the journey to our accomodation via the back-roads was no problem, although if we had to travel south via the M11, it would have been a different story, given the state of the London-bound traffic that remained at a stand-still when we looked at 1830.
Thought the show on Sunday was excellent (we gave up at 1530 on Saturday) and enjoyed the FoD enclosure's facilities as usual - many thanks again to the volunteers, who in my experience, do a top job and often have to deal with some awkward members.
It's been a time of upheaval for the DX airshows, but I think things are, in general, going in the right direction. I believe their management are learning lessons (in some areas) and hope they continue to take on board the concerns of their customers and act accordingly wherever they can.
We all want to see DX succeed, and whilst it'll be an impossible job to please everyone, a reasonable balance of tastes can be achieved and the majority will feel they've had value for money, and will keep coming back for more. The recent big 'Duxford spectaculars' that have led to chaos will have to be reconsidered and their viability on the site as it stands should be questioned.
Ignore the very concerns that have been expressed here and elsewhere, or make the cost of airshows at DX beyond what the ordinary punters and families regard as affordable for them......... and we're in for trouble.

Thoughtful_Flyer
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

strangelookingalien wrote:Me too.

Duxford handled the weather excellently on Saturday - with the taxying jets being an excellent addition. They have nothing to compensate for in regards to weather as its a risk we all take with outdoor events.

I would, however, welcome compensation for yet another terrible piece of traffic management at the end of Sunday's show. I can only imagine they were relieved to have the excuse of an accident to blame on the chaos - despite the fact it is regularly just as bad. Year on year I complain to Duxford about this on deaf ears and all it does is make me more inclined to watch from outside. I decided to buy tickets to support the airshow this year because they booked the Sea Vixen. Unfortunately on Sunday, while I really enjoyed the flying, Duxford failed yet again in so many small ways revealing that the management care about selling you tickets - but very little else.


It is easy to moan about the traffic "chaos" but I have seen very few positive and viable suggestions. Ultimately all of the exits are onto a busy single carriage way A road.

The east end is very close to the M11 junction and that is a mixed blessing as if the motorway backs up for any reason it gridlocks the exit.

The west car park exits are sensibly restricted to a left turn only. Unfortunately selfish people try their best to get round that by doing U turns in every farm entrance and side road which impedes the traffic flow.

Duxford do all they can to limit cars by charging for parking (which seems to wind people up on here out of all proportion) and providing reasonably effective free shuttle buses from stations and park and ride sites.

It seems to me the biggest single improvement would not be to have the star attractions on at the end of the show. A significant number of people would then drift away during the last hour or so.

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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by Slappywag »

Thoughtful_Flyer wrote:
strangelookingalien wrote:Me too.

Duxford handled the weather excellently on Saturday - with the taxying jets being an excellent addition. They have nothing to compensate for in regards to weather as its a risk we all take with outdoor events.

I would, however, welcome compensation for yet another terrible piece of traffic management at the end of Sunday's show. I can only imagine they were relieved to have the excuse of an accident to blame on the chaos - despite the fact it is regularly just as bad. Year on year I complain to Duxford about this on deaf ears and all it does is make me more inclined to watch from outside. I decided to buy tickets to support the airshow this year because they booked the Sea Vixen. Unfortunately on Sunday, while I really enjoyed the flying, Duxford failed yet again in so many small ways revealing that the management care about selling you tickets - but very little else.


It seems to me the biggest single improvement would not be to have the star attractions on at the end of the show. A significant number of people would then drift away during the last hour or so.

Got to have a star item in the first place...

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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by Dragon Rapide »

Thoughtful_Flyer wrote:

It seems to me the biggest single improvement would not be to have the star attractions on at the end of the show. A significant number of people would then drift away during the last hour or so.


I would agree with most of your post but I am not sure the Balbo would work half way through the Legends afternoon! Added to the fact that I guess most airshows are told when the stars can perform whatever they request, as a whole days transiting and displaying at different venues has to be scheduled.
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

Dragon Rapide wrote:
Thoughtful_Flyer wrote:

It seems to me the biggest single improvement would not be to have the star attractions on at the end of the show. A significant number of people would then drift away during the last hour or so.


I would agree with most of your post but I am not sure the Balbo would work half way through the Legends afternoon! Added to the fact that I guess most airshows are told when the stars can perform whatever they request, as a whole days transiting and displaying at different venues has to be scheduled.


If that is the only alternative to a couple of hours of gridlock I would regard that as working!

Sunday's show may not have had any choice about the Red Arrow's timing but the 14 Spitfire formations could have been much earlier. Although the Red's were the big crowd puller there are a significant number of enthusiasts who have seen them many times and will give them a miss for the sake of an easy getaway. However, give that they would have waited until the Spitfires landed, with the Reds following directly on it was tempting to stay and watch.
Last edited by Thoughtful_Flyer on Fri 16 Sep 2016, 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

Slappywag wrote:Got to have a star item in the first place...


Fourteen Spitfires followed directly by the Red Arrows were, in most people's eyes, two star items.
Last edited by Thoughtful_Flyer on Fri 16 Sep 2016, 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by Mooshie1956 »

Thoughtful_Flyer wrote:
The west car park exits are sensibly restricted to a left turn only. Unfortunately selfish people try their best to get round that by doing U turns in every farm entrance and side road which impedes the traffic flow.



While I understand what you are saying, I am one of those selfish people that do a U turn but not at a farm entrance but the first side road I come to. As I come down to Duxford from Manchester, being honest I don't really want a 20 mile detour and adding about an hour onto my travelling time home. First time and only time I did that I asked how to get back to the M11 as I wanted to head north to Manchester, follow the signs I was told, I went as far as Royston I think then followed the signs all the way back to the Duxford motorway turn off.
Saying all that what I do nowadays is have something to eat a cup of tea or whatever I can get to drink, loo stop etc, before leaving and the roads are usually clear, usually allowing me to go right straight from the car park.
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Re: Duxford September Airshow 2016- 10th and 11th September

Post by aviodromefriend »

aknott68 wrote:The fact is that it is head on and I'd rather here suggestions from people as to how to deal with it other than just take pictures on one half of the airfield - ie pointing at the eastern end.
I remember Hesja wrote a lengthy article about that in the lead up to Radom last year, but apparently it has been removed since then. Pity, as a lot of tricks could also work at other fields that have this sun-problem.
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