Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

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pbeardmore
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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by pbeardmore »

some very unhappy campers regarding today's events if the facebook comments are anything to go by

Complete disaster of an event, weather aside. Poor organization, no one from Daks over Normandy staff on site to talk to or get an update from (aside from a few “ticket sellers” who just kept shrugging their shoulders), no announcements or update on program change and weather conditions, no trash bins, planes far away behind fence, etc., etc. A huge disappointment and one of the most poorly organized events I have ever been to. As stated above, what is the procedure to apply for a refund, as event was very falsely advertised and amateurishly executed?
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The Baron
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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by The Baron »

pbeardmore wrote:some very unhappy campers regarding today's events if the facebook comments are anything to go by

Complete disaster of an event, weather aside. Poor organization, no one from Daks over Normandy staff on site to talk to or get an update from (aside from a few “ticket sellers” who just kept shrugging their shoulders), no announcements or update on program change and weather conditions, no trash bins, planes far away behind fence, etc., etc. A huge disappointment and one of the most poorly organized events I have ever been to. As stated above, what is the procedure to apply for a refund, as event was very falsely advertised and amateurishly executed?


Well as someone who was there I can comment with a little knowledge on the situation at Caen. Traffic management was non existent. There was not one person to be seen. I eventually found a place to abandon, yes that's right, abandon, the car at the airport and joined the queue for entry which some people obviously thought didn't apply to them. Entry though was relatively quick and straight forward. Once inside there was limited on site catering and facilities but the aircraft were parked whereby I came away happy with the photos I got. They were parked in two rows, the closest facing away and the furthest facing towards. The only niggle was the red and white tape about a foot off the ground behind the nearest aircraft.
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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by Blackbird »

Andover wrote: Also, how many of those actually took part in D-Day?


There's a good deal of info here:
http://ddaysquadron.org/the-mighty-fifteen-the-american-contingent-flying-to-normandy/

Andy :smile:

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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by Tom105 »

RAF4EVER wrote:
Tom105 wrote:Yep they defiantly jumped yesterday


A question,how do you jump defiantly,is that without a parachute? :smile: :smile:

Yeh my bad! :biggrin:
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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by Skyflash »

pbeardmore wrote:some very unhappy campers regarding today's events if the facebook comments are anything to go by

Complete disaster of an event, weather aside. Poor organization, no one from Daks over Normandy staff on site to talk to or get an update from (aside from a few “ticket sellers” who just kept shrugging their shoulders), no announcements or update on program change and weather conditions, no trash bins, planes far away behind fence, etc., etc. A huge disappointment and one of the most poorly organized events I have ever been to. As stated above, what is the procedure to apply for a refund, as event was very falsely advertised and amateurishly executed?


It was an absolute disgrace - quite the worst organised aviation event I have ever been to. ‘Shambles’ doesn’t even begin to cover it. I mean come on... 9 (yes, nine) toilets and two catering outlets for - what? - ten thousand people!? :mad: :lmao:

And that’s before we even get to the nonsense of entering the venue. When I arrived at just after 8am there was absolutely no-one around who was aware that a supposedly major event was about to take place. Yes, Carpiquet is a functioning municipal airport with its own daily ops to think about, but DoN should have been visible and active in advance of the crowds arriving. Instead, people seem to have been pretty much left to their own devices.

I fully expect them to be inundated with refund requests from those unfortunate enough to have been there today. I suspect tomorrow will be slightly better, but is 24 hours long enough to enact the kind of sweeping changes required to bring the event up to anything resembling an acceptable standard?

Don’t worry - I’ll no’ be hitting the wall when I write my review.
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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by mark_aviation »

According to some Facebook comments, tonight’s nightshoot has also been cancelled. Very similar comments as this morning about public transport (they were told to get number 3 bus, but waited 50 minutes and nothing showed up).

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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by SEMAE »

I was there at Caen airport as well. I completely agee with all the previous comments.

As it was a wet morning, I did not arrive until 1pm. I ended up parking outside the airfield as there was no shuttle buses and no sign posts at the designated parking area in the Pompidou boulevard.

All that happened yesterday was that a Dakota went up a few times with passengers and two Mustangs with passengers.

I do not know the actual reasons for the cancellations but it was a windy day and by the time the night shoot was due to happen, it was tipping down with rain and very very, windy. I think any tripods would have been blown over.

I am here again today just about to get out of my car and walk in to the airfield. I have my own flight in a Dakota today. Tomorrow it is La Ferte Alais for me.
Last edited by SEMAE on Sat 08 Jun 2019, 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by SEMAE »

Hi

I did not go in to the airfield immediately after my last post on here. I checked the Daks over Normandy page on Facebook and all scenic flights had been cancelled due to strong cross winds and the weather in the area but I will get a refund for my cancelled Dakota flight.

After an hour, I did go in but came out again at about 3.20 pm French time as there was a whole load of people coming out. It looks like all display flying was cancelled for the day.

However, two more Daks arrived after I had left.

I saw a Canadian WW2 cemetery earlier not far from Falaise so I went there afterwoods.

Martin Eames

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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by cg_341 »

If anyone has a spare five minute they may find this interesting.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/628505980994699/

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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by Tom105 »

cg_341 wrote:If anyone has a spare five minute they may find this interesting.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/628505980994699/

Very interesting read appears we were lucky at Duxford to have there infrastructure.
Thomas

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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by JJC »

What’s happened with the event over in France, then?
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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by mark_aviation »

JJC wrote:What’s happened with the event over in France, then?


Long story :grin: Have a look on the Daks over Normandy Facebook page and look through their posts over the last week and read the comments.

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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by pbeardmore »

I see two of the three directors resigned on the 5th June. Interesting. Plus registered office moved from Dorset (where the 2 formaer directors were based) to Bolton on the 10th

PS can someone point me towards where you would find the NOTAMS for the Daks Duxford event? thanks
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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by andygolfer »

mark_aviation wrote:
JJC wrote:What’s happened with the event over in France, then?


Long story :grin: Have a look on the Daks over Normandy Facebook page and look through their posts over the last week and read the comments.



and this FB group has numerous interesting comments including discussions re the NoTAMs for Duxford parachute drop (which according to the group didn't exist) https://www.facebook.com/groups/628505980994699/

I went to Duxford both days and having spent almost 2 hours getting in on Wednesday and well over an hour on Tuesday I felt that it didn't really live up to what was advertised.
The parachute (or is that parachutists) drop on Tuesday didn't happen but that was put down to weather - reading the above it seems the NoTAM wasn't in place so it couldn't have happened but the weather gave a useful reason not to drop.
The departure on Wednesday wasn't how it was portrayed - it gave the impression that the formation would assemble and do a formation fly through at Duxford before heading to France, that appears not to have been the case but it was worded to suggest it would. It probably referred to the 6 aircraft fly around in the morning
The flightline walk was 5 aircraft on Tuesday and 4 on Wednesday, the others were not accessible close up - I expected a few more really. It wasn't obvious where it was unless you walked to the Airspace end so that probably explains why some said they didn't find it.
I always felt to figure of 40 Daks which was the original intention was optimistic and an aspiration rather than fact but I was surprised it was only just more than half of that figure. some of those listed realistically had no chance of flying let alone getting to Duxford
I put some of the changes / omissions down to the weather or other operational issues but it appears that wasn't entirely the case.

Having said that I still enjoyed the event and even on the ground all those Daks were a wonderful sight but in hindsight I would have seen just as much if I'd only gone one day instead of two and compared to what happened to people at the French event any disappointment I felt was minimal in comparison.
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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by pbeardmore »

The facebook group make fascinating reading with some serious claims being made alongside so sily bitching but the wheat does need sorting from the chaff (ie tittle tattle from hard evidence_. The NOTAMs claim is very serious IMHO as, if proved, either shows they were going to jump with no NOTAMs or never actually planned to jump (in which case, a clear fruad),

hence my earlier posting re getting access to the NOTAMs for that day. Can anyone help on that?

People also seem unclear as to the relationship between DON and IWM with many assuming that IWM were the organisers. Thats not the impression I got. IWM use the word "partnership" on the website but what does that actually mean in legal terms. We all know of the established firms that IWM usually work with. I think they will be asking themselves why they decided to work with DON as there will be "reputational damage" on the horizon. Especially as, I fear, DON will disapear within a week or so, leaving IWM still holding the baby.

The situation re directors of DON resigning on the 5th and the change in registered office on the 10th makes the whole thing stink but it needs proper investigation rather than a Facebook group.
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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by DangerM »

pbeardmore wrote:The NOTAMs claim is very serious IMHO as, if proved, either shows they were going to jump with no NOTAMs or never actually planned to jump (in which case, a clear fruad),


The CAA issued an aic that mentions mass parachute jumps and restricted airspace, is a NOTAM needed with an aic detailing airspace and activities?

https://www.aurora.nats.co.uk/htmlAIP/P ... en-GB.html

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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by Mike »

I'm told that the drops were briefed at the Duxford pilots briefing, so the Dak crews were certainly expecting them to happen (subject, of course, to weather)

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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by PirateTrickster »

Frankly, reading the 'Scammed Over Normandy' FB page, it's a wonder we got so many Daks in the first place! Much Kudos to the US outfits for bringing the Dakotas over. The goings in on France sound a little farcical, the most alarming of which are the aerial near misses described by some of the participants.

Hopefully the Dakota crews know how much they were appreciated - even people in my office (Herts) were coming up to me saying they'd seen them flying over and how great they looked.

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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by duxfordhawk »

Firstly I still think the event was really special and seeing so many Dc-3's/C-47's in one place is something I will never forget. I attended the event as a way to pay tribute to both of my Grandfathers and their generation who served on D-day/World War II, not in Dakota's, but this event seemed appropriate as a way to remember them.
I do not know the truth about the rumours mentioned here and although I do know some things about the past of some of the directors of DAM, I am trying not to let that cloud my judgment. But I do feel it's a great shame that something that should have been remembering heroes is now tainted by these allegations.

I did think the line-up aircraft was fanciful as many were clearly not available and some had not flown in some time, but I had assumed this was because they were invited rather than confirmed and I could forgive that, however, if the NOTAM story is true that is not forgivable as that can be seen as deliberate misleading. I had also expected a flypast of all the Dakotas on Wednesday which was not the case, I accepted this at the time, but now I do feel the advertising was actually potentially misleading.

Having seen some of the posts on Facebook it does make interesting reading and poses more questions than it answers and this needs investigating by the proper authorities officially.
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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by Mike »

On the Monday a 'departure for France' was practiced by 11 aircraft, which consisted of them taking off, then running back in from the Royston end individually in trail. I can only assume this was abandoned on the Wednesday due to the delays in the schedule for the drops in France and they wanted to get across there ASAP.

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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by pbeardmore »

Considering it was largely based there, you wonder why IWM did not cut out the middle man and organise the event themselves rather than trust a firm set up in 2017 with assets of a few hundred quid? Pretty remarkable,
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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by Mike »

They did organise most of it. They provided the venue, staff and facilities, the ground handling and fuel, the commentator, presumably booked the non-DC-3 flying acts and obtained the necessary permits from the CAA , sold the tickets and did much of the advertising. D-Day Squadron provided the majority of the aircraft, and briefed and organised most of the DC-3 flying. It seems that Daks over Normandy did little or nothing at the Duxford end other than organising the (ultimately cancelled) jumps.

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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by pbeardmore »

On the DOM website next to their donate button:

Without your support we will not be able to organize Daks over Normandy in June 2019. Thank you very much for considering supporting this event. Your donation however large or small will be gratefully received and put towards the high costs of organising and running this unique and once in a lifetime commemorative event.
Think of the large amount fuel, crew accommodations, insurances, landing fees, PR & Marketing, administration, personnel hire, etc. etc.
Thank you!


You can see the confusion when DON are asking for donations to cover all these costs.
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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by Mike »

That is for the whole Daks over Normandy event, including the Caen end. Daks over Duxford (the UK end) was primarily an IWM event.

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Re: Daks Over Normandy - June 2019

Post by Ryan. »

andygolfer wrote:
mark_aviation wrote:
JJC wrote:What’s happened with the event over in France, then?


Long story :grin: Have a look on the Daks over Normandy Facebook page and look through their posts over the last week and read the comments.



and this FB group has numerous interesting comments including discussions re the NoTAMs for Duxford parachute drop (which according to the group didn't exist) https://www.facebook.com/groups/628505980994699/

I went to Duxford both days and having spent almost 2 hours getting in on Wednesday and well over an hour on Tuesday I felt that it didn't really live up to what was advertised.
The parachute (or is that parachutists) drop on Tuesday didn't happen but that was put down to weather - reading the above it seems the NoTAM wasn't in place so it couldn't have happened but the weather gave a useful reason not to drop.
The departure on Wednesday wasn't how it was portrayed - it gave the impression that the formation would assemble and do a formation fly through at Duxford before heading to France, that appears not to have been the case but it was worded to suggest it would. It probably referred to the 6 aircraft fly around in the morning
The flightline walk was 5 aircraft on Tuesday and 4 on Wednesday, the others were not accessible close up - I expected a few more really. It wasn't obvious where it was unless you walked to the Airspace end so that probably explains why some said they didn't find it.
I always felt to figure of 40 Daks which was the original intention was optimistic and an aspiration rather than fact but I was surprised it was only just more than half of that figure. some of those listed realistically had no chance of flying let alone getting to Duxford
I put some of the changes / omissions down to the weather or other operational issues but it appears that wasn't entirely the case.

Having said that I still enjoyed the event and even on the ground all those Daks were a wonderful sight but in hindsight I would have seen just as much if I'd only gone one day instead of two and compared to what happened to people at the French event any disappointment I felt was minimal in comparison.


There isn't any hard evidence that the paratroopering drop wouldn't have taken place. I think it's quite absurd to assume so, unless there is clear and frank evidence that is the case. There may well have been other procedures in place to allow it happen had the weather played ball.

Can I ask where the impression came from that the departures on Wednesday would feature a mass flypast at Duxford? I read the timetable and didn't notice anything saying that might be the case. Indeed, many of the pilots that came over, don't hold formation licences as a lot of the aircraft are not particularly active in the US airshow scene, mainly used for passenger flights and the like.
Last edited by Ryan. on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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