Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Discuss airshows and other aviation events at the Imperial War Museum
jl151080
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by jl151080 »

pbeardmore wrote:
Tue 25 Aug 2020, 11:21 am
The IWM press realease is 100% spin. If they do run a similar style of show, I cant see them having the same connections and influence regarding getting special guests in in the way that FL has done over the years. "The glory days are over" is a tempting reaction and...actually , I fear it's true. Many of the IWM shows have been bland and FL , at it's peak, had a magic of it's own and , surely, TFC , must take credit for that.

I really do hope that TFC will use their imagination, infrastructure, experience and marketing skill to come up with a new event at another location both to raise funds and keep the magic alive. Bring back The Fighter Meet? Mini-Legends at Old Warden? It's a big ask. Not exactly over burdened with venues.

I get the impression that there is much goodwill towards TFC from airshow fans and I would hope that we would support any new venture they come up with, even though it may not be on the scale of the Duxford events.

"Glory days well they'll pass you by
Glory days in the wink of a young girl's eye
Glory days, glory days"
I suspect any replacement will be a more 'generic' style airshow, similar to how they have turned the May show into the Duxford Air Festival.

A great shame, and I certainly hope a new replacement venue for Flying Legends is found soon. Wherever it is, I'll be there.

jl151080
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by jl151080 »

rockfordstone wrote:
Tue 25 Aug 2020, 8:55 am
boff180 wrote:
Tue 25 Aug 2020, 8:50 am
so it's all about money then
Seems to be the way with Duxford now, exemplified by the disgusting decision to axe concessions for the disabled.

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Pat Murphy
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by Pat Murphy »

Hard to see anything positive from this announcement, both for Duxford as a venue and Historic Aviation generally. Obviously, the regulars will know more and see changes day to day but as a regular attendee over many years, the rot had already begun when the traditional end of season Autumn show, hit the wall. Parking passes, Hotel accommodation, shipping out airframes that aren't "on message", all add to the problems and now revenue must have been battered this year (hasn't it for everyone?) :frowning2:

It would be interesting to know if a shortlist has been drawn up? I know he's not on here anymore but I'm sure I can hear the mumblings of a certain Mr O'Hagan somewhere regarding Duxford's crap photo opp, charges etc....

That's a point, can the new venue be North Facing Please?
*dons hard hat and retires.....

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pbeardmore
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by pbeardmore »

It's interesting in that, with any service, venue, event etc, having something unique gives you not only an edge over competitors but something that makes your brand unique. I agree with many comments over the years re the running of DX and the theme seems to be of corp blandness replacing what is actually a unique location both re it's history and the events it hosted. FL was a great fit with DX as it focussed on historic aviation and, to a large part, our own aviation and military heritage. Simply by hosting FL, DX "piggey backed" on the amazing work that TFC did in making it a truely World class event.

I wonder if the management at DX can see beyond an Excel spreadsheet and realise what FL added to the location? and what they will be losing?
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GeeRam
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by GeeRam »

Talldan76 wrote:
Tue 25 Aug 2020, 8:57 am
Reading between the lines of the IWM press release, I would say that they wanted more money flowing back to them than TFC were willing to pay.
Would be my theory as well.

IWM went to TFC and said we want a bigger cut, and TFC have said foxtrot oscar.

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jasonT1981
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by jasonT1981 »

jl151080 wrote:
Tue 25 Aug 2020, 1:19 pm
I suspect any replacement will be a more 'generic' style airshow, similar to how they have turned the May show into the Duxford Air Festival.

A great shame, and I certainly hope a new replacement venue for Flying Legends is found soon. Wherever it is, I'll be there.
What was the reason for changing the May show from the American Airshow to a generic 'Air Festival'

Surely the 'American Airshow' was a far more appealing gimmick than just 'Duxford Air Festival'. I am not knocking the Air Festival, I quite enjoyed last years show. But am curious why a change took place.

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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by GeeRam »

DOUGHNUT wrote:
Tue 25 Aug 2020, 11:19 am
How long before TFC decide to move all restoration and operations away from Duxford ?
I was thinking the same, and maybe not just TFC.

I can think that the owners of Bicester Heritage would love to get some of the warbird shops there, and with other shops already at Biggin and Sywell, if facilities at Duxford become unfavourable then I'm sure they will start to look elsewhere.
Could the RAF leaving Scampton see an opportunity for TFC and the like to move there, what with HHA operating their aircraft from there, and with Scamptons history it would be certainly have the historic connections that Duxford has?

Logistically I think it would be a massive extra burden for TFC to organise Legends away from their base, when you think that all TFC and IWM organisation staff are currently co-located on the site where you are holding the show. That makes a huge difference to your organisation burden and staff time as well as costs.

FarnboroJohn
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by FarnboroJohn »

The world's gone mad....

Berf
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by Berf »

Another reason to develop Scampton as a national historic aviation and technical centre with apprenticeships etc, restoration, flying, etc with BBMF shifted out of Coningsby. Trouble is it would need a lot of disparate groups to join up without a whole lot of issues getting in the way, finance of course being one. As a photographer and RIAT attendee I don't really care if FL is moved from Duxford.

jl151080
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by jl151080 »

jasonT1981 wrote:
Tue 25 Aug 2020, 4:17 pm
jl151080 wrote:
Tue 25 Aug 2020, 1:19 pm
I suspect any replacement will be a more 'generic' style airshow, similar to how they have turned the May show into the Duxford Air Festival.

A great shame, and I certainly hope a new replacement venue for Flying Legends is found soon. Wherever it is, I'll be there.
What was the reason for changing the May show from the American Airshow to a generic 'Air Festival'

Surely the 'American Airshow' was a far more appealing gimmick than just 'Duxford Air Festival'. I am not knocking the Air Festival, I quite enjoyed last years show. But am curious why a change took place.
In the UKAR podcast interview with Ben Dunnell, he mentions it was because of a change of team.

Personally I much preferred the historically themed airshows

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Jakub.Zurek
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by Jakub.Zurek »

If it is all down to money, then I assume Duxford will simply see this as an opportunity to take over that Legends weekend in July and organise another generic show with some Spitfires, Red Arrows and Typhoon and keep 100% of the profits.

Good luck to TFC and hopefully they'll be able to find a suitable venue for their next chapter and keep FL going. Massive shame no one at IWM could see the pull Legends had - a globally renowned airshow that drew thousands of visitors from across the globe to the museum.

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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by UKTopgun »

As if this year has not been depressing enough already!
Bit by bit, this wonderful hobby gets eroded more and more. The IWM staff are probably not enthusiasts, they are PR people. They don't get it, and never will. Thanks to TFC for so many great memories in the very hot Duxford sunshine (most of the time!)

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jasonT1981
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by jasonT1981 »

I do regret never getting to Legends at Duxford. It always fell too close to, or on the weekend of RIAT. So doing both was impossible for me.

I hope TFC will be able to find a new venue and keep this show alive. My only experiences of it are on DVD but it always seemed an incredible show.

I just hope where-ever they go, it is as easy to get to as Duxford. 30 minutes on the train from Stansted and a free Shuttle to the airfield. Probably the easiest place to get to and from of the big English shows I've been to.

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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by andy759 »

Only missed 3 maybe 4 legends since the first one & couple of them only because riat moved weekends & clashed as a volunteer at riat it was a bit awkward to get , I absolutely love legends always have & I hope always will but IWM Duxford BIG mistake what ever happens

Andy

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pbeardmore
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by pbeardmore »

Agree with earlier point re TFC previously relying on IWM infrastructure. It's a big ask to step up to a full show with all that requires. I wonder if TFC could partner with an existing show organiser (in the med term) to ease any transition. Sometimes, bad news can bring great opportunities. I sincerely hope this is one example.
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GeeRam
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by GeeRam »

pbeardmore wrote:
Wed 26 Aug 2020, 10:01 am
Agree with earlier point re TFC previously relying on IWM infrastructure. It's a big ask to step up to a full show with all that requires. I wonder if TFC could partner with an existing show organiser (in the med term) to ease any transition. Sometimes, bad news can bring great opportunities. I sincerely hope this is one example.
Legends effectively sprung up with the demise of Great Warbirds shows at Malling and the final couple of hit n miss ones at Wroughton, which TFC/OFMC etc were great supporters off.

The trouble is there is no other show like Legends.....and will another show be prepared to dilute what it wants/has from a show, or will TFC likewise want to dilute what Legends has been for nearly 30 years.

Biggin Hill is the only one I can think of that might fit the bill?

My own view is that TFC are more likely to move the show to mainland Europe than keep it in the UK, especially with the more restrictive nature of UK regs in the post Shoreham world, fewer and fewer suitable airfields and the increasing European based warbird community in France and Germany etc. I presume Stephen Gray still lives in Switzerland as well?

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pbeardmore
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by pbeardmore »

Geeram - All fair points. What I meant was not share a show but use a venue that already has airshow hosting infrastructure (as with IWM) so TFC effectively hires the venue including the infrastructure that has been used for previous shows rather than just use an airfield and have all of the extra burden of building a show from scratch. Obviously, TFC have great contacts, reputation etc. I'm sure they have some ideas they are working on. It's too late now but Dunsfold, for example, was a commercial venture and would perhaps have been open to the idea of hosting Legends (for an acceptable fee).

PS at least the "clash" with RIAT may have gone? (trying to look on the bright side). Its possible that Duxford restricted certain options and, perhaps, this gives TFC more options and flexiblilty (Legends South, Legends North? Legends Evening?, Legends with pyros? and, yes "légendes volantes")
Last edited by pbeardmore on Wed 26 Aug 2020, 11:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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pb643
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by pb643 »

This seems to be an incredibly short-sighted and stupid decision by IWM.
Duxford's unique appeal, is a living museum, with an active airfield, serving a stunning array of historic aircraft.
This must surely mark the beginning of the end for Duxford as we know it? If the historic aircraft operators look to new homes, then Duxford loses all year round, not just for one weekend in July.
I can't see any of the interested parties gaining anything from this move, financially or otherwise. It just diminishes Duxford's standing as a world-class warbird venue and the UK and IWM lose a world-famous warbird airshow.

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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by GeeRam »

pb643 wrote:
Wed 26 Aug 2020, 11:32 am
This seems to be an incredibly short-sighted and stupid decision by IWM.
I think you're forgetting the type of people now employed by IWM/RAFM etc., in this thought.

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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by GeeRam »

pbeardmore wrote:
Wed 26 Aug 2020, 11:29 am
What I meant was not share a show but use a venue that already has airshow hosting infrastructure (as with IWM) so TFC effectively hires the venue including the infrastructure that has been used for previous shows rather than just use an airfield and have all of the extra burden of building a show from scratch.
I understood that, which is why I offered up the Biggin Hill suggestion.

But, how viable or not that might be in the post-Shoreham world I don't know.

What other existing shows/show infrastructure at suitable venue's are there?

Cosford is about it maybe other than Biggin.

That's why my bet is on a move to Europe.

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pbeardmore
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by pbeardmore »

You're right. It's a VERY short list.
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Mike
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by Mike »

Biggin is an active commercial airport. Hard to shut it down for several hours of intense, back-to-back hardcore warbird activity (the very essence of Legends)

GeeRam
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by GeeRam »

Mike wrote:
Wed 26 Aug 2020, 1:11 pm
Biggin is an active commercial airport. Hard to shut it down for several hours of intense, back-to-back hardcore warbird activity (the very essence of Legends)
I agree, although they do it for Biggin Hill Air Fair, but once a year is maybe all that they can get?

Like I've said, the reality of another venue I believe is very limited in the UK I'm afraid, and why I think TFC will take it to Europe if they choose to continue with Legends.

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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by Gt5500 »

I would imagine Biggin is a non starter considering the air fair was axed and replaced by a much smaller scale event, can't see them suddenly deciding to hold a huge warbird meet. I could be wrong though.

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The Dudster
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by The Dudster »

Bit out of the way but how about Sywell ? I think its was a WW2 training airfield so could continue on the historic theme although not as famous as Duxford

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