Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Discuss airshows and other aviation events at the Imperial War Museum
GeeRam
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by GeeRam »

The Dudster wrote:
Wed 26 Aug 2020, 2:04 pm
Bit out of the way but how about Sywell ? I think its was a WW2 training airfield so could continue on the historic theme although not as famous as Duxford
Not sure.....its quite small, and public access isn't great.

Friends of mine run a big music/car festival weekend event there once a year, or did, as it's now bi-annual, but may now never happen again, post Covid, and so I'm aware of the infrastructure they have to bring in for that, and I wouldn't say Sywell is a non-starter, but I'm not convinced it is a feasible venue for Legends.

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BobL
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by BobL »

Parking for the number of vehicles for a Flying Legends type air show might be a problem at Sywell?
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GeeRam
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by GeeRam »

BobL wrote:
Wed 26 Aug 2020, 2:33 pm
Parking for the number of vehicles for a Flying Legends type air show might be a problem at Sywell?
There is available parking in the 3 x fields to the east of the Sywell Rd, which is what is used for the festival I mentioned above, although that doesn't have anything like the amount of visitors that Legends would have.
I think the bigger problem with Sywell, is the display line and the industrial area to the west side of the south end of the runway, which may have overfly issues.
I know my friends did have a couple of single aircraft displays at their first two events at Sywell and that caused them much headaches, so I'm not convinced Sywell is a viable venue for a Legends type event.

I do hope TFC come up with something viable, it would be a crying shame if that's it, but in all honesty, I can't see it being viable from them to continue with it in the UK.

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BobL
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by BobL »

A quick plot of the 3 fields I think you're meaning (opposite aerodrome on Wellingborough Road?) is very roughly around 30 acres which at a rate of 150 cars per acre is around 4,500 to 5,000 cars.

I think parking was capped eventually at 10,000 vehicles for Duxford airshows.
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jalfrezi
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by jalfrezi »

I also wouldn't be surprised if Flying Legends becomes a mainland Europe show - maybe either La Ferte Alais or Melun being possible candidates. I also wonder if Duxford will remain their base of operations for the foreseeable future?

GeeRam
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by GeeRam »

BobL wrote:
Wed 26 Aug 2020, 3:20 pm
A quick plot of the 3 fields I think you're meaning (opposite aerodrome on Wellingborough Road?) is very roughly around 30 acres which at a rate of 150 cars per acre is around 4,500 to 5,000 cars.

I think parking was capped eventually at 10,000 vehicles for Duxford airshows.
Yep, its not very big, and while it maybe possible to make arrangements with other adjacent landowners (for a fee) it all adds to costs and reduces what they end up with at the end of the day.

Like I said, I don't think Sywell is that viable a location.

Not many other options though :frowning2:

This is why I keep wondering about Scampton?
Maybe just too big though?

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yannyfoxx
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by yannyfoxx »

Nick Grey answered a few questions on the radio this morning that go some way to explaining the decision and the IWM relationship.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1522r9yhqkv1k ... 44dnw8OVTY

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JJC
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by JJC »

Sounds like a pee poor decision taken by a group who make counter-intuitive decisions as a matter of course.

If they are indeed envious of the bastardisation of Hendon, that really does say it all.

Why have the real thing to show to the public when you can have a cardboard cutout, dodgey voice acting and an LCD screen with graphics that wouldn’t make a PS2 envious?

This seems like an example of IWM cutting their nose off to spite their face. I’m sure they can organise a show, but I doubt they can organise a show with the symbolic capital and pull that Nick Grey and TFC attract.

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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by pbeardmore »

Thanks for posting, really interesting, what a fantastic rep he is for TFC and he was very professional re IWM but, at the same time, it's very clear that it was not a 50/50 agreement ("it was the right decision for them. We're very close friends and big partners with IWM and I think it was a decision that we made in common in the interests of IWM Duxford") . Very interesting re his comments of keeping it local or, perhaps, just comforting the local community as what local options are there?
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by GeeRam »

JJC wrote:
Wed 26 Aug 2020, 4:28 pm
If they are indeed envious of the bastardisation of Hendon, that really does say it all.
Quite.

Not fit to run a bath, let alone the IWM.

But we are all old dinasours, and not the demographic that the luvvies at IWM think they need to attract.

DaveBr
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by DaveBr »

Good to hear Nick Grey on the radio, giving a relatively positive outlook on the situation.

With regards to venue, one can only hope TFC have some ideas up their sleeves that haven't occurred to any of us.

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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by catwomanofkent »

We have been traders for over 20 years at Duxford, Flying Legends was a special one off show for us. Totally different crowd and interests, we had different stock for this show. We sold well and loved attending it. We missed last year due to illness but hope to attend the Sept 2020 show, albeit it stuck up in Market Place. We prefer being in the Historic Zone where we were for 17 years, but suddenly moved to the Market Place and found a lot more problems there that we had not encountered before. It's not paid off financially moving everyone around for the Historic Zone Traders from what we heard?
We heard 2 years ago that TFC were thinking of relocating the show and planes to France because of problems with IWM, not sure if this is correct?
We think Biggin Hill Airport could be a suitable replacement. Not sure if they will do their usual air show 2021? Thus could replace it. Easy to get to and they have hangars for Spitfires etc. We loved Duxford air shows as they were a few years ago. A lot has changed and we miss the old staff and public, a lot do not attend now and it's not the same. We hope everyone supports the last 2020 show there, and we look forward to seeing you all again!

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jasonT1981
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by jasonT1981 »

A tweet from an IWM Duxford Curator
Yes Flying Legends is popular among a certain audience, but for a number of years it has been out performed by shows with less niche appeal. Duxford has always been a war museum first, aviation museum second, and IMO Legends' programme has become removed from its warbird origins

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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by DaveBr »

Pah! Duxford's appeal and world renown as a go-to destination for people from around the world is built upon the efforts of it's resident restorers and operators. Flying Legends was the flagship event for that industry. Without them, it is just another dusty museum of dormant artifacts.

Museums have their place, but as *just* a museum I might attend once every few years, as opposed to 10-15 times each year. It's a strange business model that alienates "a certain audience" of the most loyal customers.

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jasonT1981
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by jasonT1981 »

I'm wondering what shows she is talking about? I mean outside of Fairford, and Cosford then there really is only Duxford that has the big air field type show. I guess you could put Farnborough in that short list too, but its really lost its appeal over the last few shows to the public.

Are they comparing Duxford to seaside shows I wonder, given that they draw a bigger crowd with a more family appeal to them? Because I struggle to understand what shows with 'less niche appeal" are out performing Legends in the terms of airshows across the board.

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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by GeeRam »

jasonT1981 wrote:
Wed 26 Aug 2020, 8:20 pm
A tweet from an IWM Duxford Curator
Yes Flying Legends is popular among a certain audience, but for a number of years it has been out performed by shows with less niche appeal. Duxford has always been a war museum first, aviation museum second, and IMO Legends' programme has become removed from its warbird origins
What.... :open_mouth:

What an utter cocksocket.
War museum first....why Concorde and other airliners then?
Duxford Aviation Society involvement from Day 1 seems to have escaped his notice then.
Land Warfare hall didn't even open until 1992, so 15 years after the museum first opened.
And Legends programme become removed from its warbird origins - seriously?

No wonder TFC have told IWM to Foxtrot Oscar......so would I.
If I was SG/NG I would be looking for another airfield to base my collection at.

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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by Sideslip »

I fear we are entering an era in which power has been passed to a younger generation who do not share our interests or values and have no qualms about tossing aside that which we hold dear. We have seen it with the destruction of the wonderful Battle of Britain Hall at Hendon and we are now seeing it here. Its all very sad.

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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by UKTopgun »

I only go to DX for the shows nowadays, the museum alone is no longer a draw. If IWM go down the road of killing airshows there, they need to be careful as they may find themselves with a dusty old museum no-one bothers with in 10 years time.
The OFMC, HAC and TFC are the living, breathing heart of Duxford and without them they have very little.
Good luck to NG finding somewhere.
I personally think and hope they will try to keep it in the UK.

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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by Georgeconna »

Dx is a bit of a ghost town outside the show days on the times I have visited. I have not attended legends now for about 4-5 years after the crowd line was moved.
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Mike
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by Mike »

GeeRam wrote:...seems to have escaped his notice then.
*her* notice, in this case

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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by Pen Pusher »

jasonT1981 wrote:
Wed 26 Aug 2020, 8:20 pm
A tweet from an IWM Duxford Curator
Yes Flying Legends is popular among a certain audience, but for a number of years it has been out performed by shows with less niche appeal. Duxford has always been a war museum first, aviation museum second, and IMO Legends' programme has become removed from its warbird origins
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pb643
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by pb643 »

Are there any other locations that allow the use of both a hard-surface runway and a broad expanse of grass for those unique mass takeoffs, 3 or 4 abreast?

I am not aware of any?

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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by aviationanoraks »

I’ve been giving this some thought before posting any response, and have come to the same conclusion as DaveBr - I will probably only go to Duxford once every five to ten years at best from now on (if at all).
For the last few years the May show has not appealed, yes they have had a participant that would have been nice to see, but travelling around 150 miles each way for one act could not be justified.
The September show has always had more appeal, but unfortunately most years I have been unable to attend for various reasons (typical!)
The October show always had a charm of its own, more relaxed and enjoyable, but that was canned some time ago.
That left Legends. On a number of occasions we (Mrs A and myself and on some occasions Mr A senior) would plan a weekend away or a holiday around this, and would attend the arrivals days as well. All this put more money in the IWM bank account as we would buy food and drinks on site and more often than not purchase books etc. in the shop. I hate to think how much we have spent over the years!
With the cancellation this stops. They don’t get our money. Not out of spite, just with no ‘niche’ show why would we go? We can’t be alone in coming to this conclusion.
This is very sad. I first went to Duxford (on a normal day) back in 1989 when I passed my driving test, and found myself going around twice a year without including airshows in this. As the years went by I found I was going less on normal days and more for the shows. This was due to the travel costs involved and increasing admission prices, it was getting too expensive to go to look at the same things time after time.
The last time I/we went on a normal day was just after the revamp of the American Air Museum, and that was only to see that. We didn’t go around some of the other hangars as we knew it too well.

I was at the first Flying Legends, and was hooked. It was different to any other show on so many levels. The noises, smells, massed tail chases, star items, it all made it stand head and shoulders above any other Duxford show.
I wasn’t able to go to all of them, but with this weeks announcement I am so glad I managed to get to the 2018 edition.
I wish TFC the very best in finding a new location, hopefully in the UK but if not it will be understandable. If it is the latter then the UK airshow scene will have lost one of its biggest events and the associated tourism/income that goes with it.

As for the posts on social media from someone claiming to be a curator at Duxford, I did read them and will refrain from commenting!

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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by Pen Pusher »

jasonT1981 wrote:
Wed 26 Aug 2020, 8:20 pm
A tweet from an IWM Duxford Curator
Duxford has always been a war museum first, aviation museum second,
IWM Duxford is a storage and restoration facility for IWM London first, then a museum second. She couldn't even get that right.

From the Duxford web site.
IWM had been looking for a suitable site for the storage, restoration and eventual display of exhibits too large for its headquarters in London
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GeeRam
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Re: Flying Legends to cease at Duxford

Post by GeeRam »

UKTopgun wrote:
Wed 26 Aug 2020, 10:08 pm
If IWM go down the road of killing airshows there, they need to be careful as they may find themselves with a dusty old museum no-one bothers with in 10 years time.
You're ignoring the house building expansion demands in and around the Cambridge area......and the value of turning the 'active' airfield site into a housing estate, especially with its proximity to the M11 junction.

I'm sure there are very good financial reasons that IWM would be happy to see all flying activity end at Duxford and just keep the non-flying museum part of the site.

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