Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby bristolian1 on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 7:18 pm

Well organised - traffic amazingly quick compared to recent years.

Suggestions
- position static aircraft against hangars (or boundaries between hangars) with wide arc of fencing around them, allows more space for the photo fraternity.
- skilled as they all undoubtedly are, less "two little aircraft doing aerobatics" slots.
- variety is great - glider, parachutes, Great War routine, Sea King all commanded public's attention
- give us useful commentary - please!!

Well done to all involved.
bristolian1

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby Arthur Tee on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 7:40 pm

D200,

From the Shawbury movements thread...


SCARECROW 451 wrote:If people are listening to the Gnats on an old freq well guess they'll have to put the correct freq in now !

We have noted all comments made by the Gnats, it seems we, RAF Shawbury were in the right, the Gnats were using an 'old map with old frequencies'. Still the freq was only changed on the 10th April this year, just wonder what other frequencies they haven't updated !
Guess we'll find out when they eventually depart !


Were the Gnats furnished with the correct frequency within the Aircrew Information Pack?

Didn't attend the show myself (but seeing these reports - wish I did) - listening to the Gnats on a scanner (not mine) - but not overly impressed by their professionalism or airmanship...

Arthur
Canon PowerShot SX40HS - It's not what you've got - it's what you do with it!
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Arthur Tee

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby D200 on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 8:08 pm

Were the Gnats furnished with the correct frequency within the Aircrew Information Pack?


Did anybody else have the same problems? The ATC info is written by ATC! One needs to be aware that not everyone is able to guarantee up to date documents in the way that is taken for granted within military aviation. I once encountered a foreign helicopter using a BINA several years out of date; ...I gave them my own! I would not encourage judgement and jury on a public forum armed only with speculation for that is unfair.
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D200

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby andrew653 on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 8:13 pm

Thoroughly enjoyed this years show fantastic flying display loved the meteor, VC-10 and P-40, one thing I think that's great at Cosford is the flying aircraft that park and start up right in front of the crowd line, was great to see and hear the P-40 starting up that close. I agree with some of the comments here about the windbreakers and tents on the front, there was a couple on the front who marked out a huge area with windbreakers and then began to shout and swear at a small child who walked in to "their area", not good at all and spoiled the day for that child who went away crying, only to then cause an argument between the couple and the parents of the child. The static display was great but the thing that let it down for me was how close the barriers were to the aircraft, it was almost impossible to see some of the aircraft properly or take a decent photograph, would be good if they could be moved further away from the aircraft or if cones where used such as at RIAT
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andrew653

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby Arthur Tee on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 8:58 pm

D200 wrote:
Were the Gnats furnished with the correct frequency within the Aircrew Information Pack?


Did anybody else have the same problems? The ATC info is written by ATC! One needs to be aware that not everyone is able to guarantee up to date documents in the way that is taken for granted within military aviation. I once encountered a foreign helicopter using a BINA several years out of date; ...I gave them my own! I would not encourage judgement and jury on a public forum armed only with speculation for that is unfair.


True - but basics such as familiarity with frequency, circuit direction, RCF procedures and a potential bust of an adjoining ATZ did not paint a particularly good picture...
...a picture that could be seen by all present.
After all, these pilots do get paid for their work - which should surely qualify them as professionals!


Arthur
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Arthur Tee

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby SCARECROW 451 on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 9:17 pm

Well said Arthur, the pack up did contain the correct frequencies so there is no excuse.
SCARECROW 451

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby kc10 on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 9:34 pm

I havn't been to cosford airshow for about ten years, Having recently moved back to shropshire i couldn't not go' and really enjoyed it.
I agree with what is said by other members of the forum, especially about the windbreaks, Tents and barriers around the static displays.
Having display aircraft parked and taxi along the front i thought a really good idea, Also liked the idea of the fairground being at the back out of the way, I went to RIAT a couple of years ago and at one point i couldnt hear commentry or even aircraft due to the music and noise.

well done to all involved :clap: and count me in for next years show :smile:
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kc10

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby sohvimus on Tue 19 Jun 2012, 12:33 am

D200 wrote:Work for next year begins immediately and starts with a theme to work with. Any ideas? 9 June 2013 is the date for your diary.

Argh! My mother-in-law's birthday! :facepalm: I'll need to work on this. :wink:
sohvimus

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby Arthur Tee on Tue 19 Jun 2012, 7:04 am

sohvimus wrote:
D200 wrote:Work for next year begins immediately and starts with a theme to work with. Any ideas? 9 June 2013 is the date for your diary.

Argh! My mother-in-law's birthday! :facepalm: I'll need to work on this. :wink:


Oh come on - surely it doesn't take that long to get divorce proceedings started...! :lol:

Arthur
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Arthur Tee

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby rabbity1952 on Tue 19 Jun 2012, 8:27 am

A very enjoyable day, well organised and a good flying programme.
The hangar demo of Jaguar hydraulics was really interesting and well presented.Nice to be able to get up close to appreciate what is involved.
I liked the idea of not saving the best till last as it spread the traffic flow leaving the site.
The traffic marshalling was excellent with friendly staff.Could i suggest though that some signs are provided next time at the end of the exit road to direct strangers without Sat Nav.
I struggled to find a programme seller and would suggest they be available where people are getting out of their cars on a moving basis.This would help to maximise sales and not cause delays at the entrance.

Thanks to all concerned for making it an excellent day. :clap:
rabbity1952

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby Andyperkins on Tue 19 Jun 2012, 9:10 am

rabbity1952 wrote:I struggled to find a programme seller and would suggest they be available where people are getting out of their cars on a moving basis.This would help to maximise sales and not cause delays at the entrance.


What time did you arrive? as when I got there at half 8 there were quite a few programme sellers walking about the car park.
Andyperkins

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby D200 on Tue 19 Jun 2012, 9:35 am

Souvenir Brochure / Programs are still selling. £6.50 inc p&p
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D200

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby rabbity1952 on Tue 19 Jun 2012, 9:54 am

Andyperkins wrote:
rabbity1952 wrote:I struggled to find a programme seller and would suggest they be available where people are getting out of their cars on a moving basis.This would help to maximise sales and not cause delays at the entrance.


What time did you arrive? as when I got there at half 8 there were quite a few programme sellers walking about the car park.



Arrived at about 10.30 and no sellers found where we parked or along crowd line.Took me half an hour to come across one.My point is that if the sellers moved alongside the cars as they had just parked more people would buy one.Thought the programme was good value for £5 though.
rabbity1952

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby viggen on Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:15 am

No comments on the entry price of £25 per adult yes I know kids were free but consider last year a family 2 adults and 2 kids got in relatively cheaply and as someone who has attended this shows for a number of years attendance was down. Looking across the airfield there was lots of green that in previous year were covered with cars.

Viggen
viggen

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby Tommy on Tue 19 Jun 2012, 1:02 pm

The friends of Cosford idea isn't half bad! I'd certainly be game for that!

Also, theme for next year... 75th of No.2 SofTT being formed or even just Cosford's 75th?
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Tommy
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby sohvimus on Tue 19 Jun 2012, 4:57 pm

Arthur Tee wrote:
sohvimus wrote:
D200 wrote:Work for next year begins immediately and starts with a theme to work with. Any ideas? 9 June 2013 is the date for your diary.
Argh! My mother-in-law's birthday! :facepalm: I'll need to work on this. :wink:
Oh come on - surely it doesn't take that long to get divorce proceedings started...! :lol:

Problem is that I need my husband to get me there. :wink: And I've now spoken to my mother-in-law and she didn't seem to find the date too objectionable. Though this year's date was much better as it was my birthday. :lol:
sohvimus

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby Duxfordian on Tue 19 Jun 2012, 9:12 pm

A380FWWOW wrote:I couldn't hear the errors made by S Moffat!



You're being ironic right?
Duxfordian

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby MarkyVx on Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:09 pm

I have been going to Cosford since i was about 4 with my mum and dad and now at 26 and a father myself to 2 girls 2 and 10 months I'm still going and i have to say it was the best show yet. The flying line up was fantastic and featured some of my favourite aircraft and aircraft that i have never seen fly before.

My 2 year old enjoyed herself and was shouting all day "daddy, daddy look theres a airplane" so safe to say she loved it.

Only problem i found was the number of tents and wind breakers on the crowd line blocking views of taxi-ing aircraft and me being 6ft 2 and struggling to see i'd hate to think what it was like for the smaller crowd members.

Every year i'd say to myself i'd love to see the jaguars out and going live again as i was about 6 the last time i saw one, so to see them out in force was amazing and i must say thank you to the organisers for pulling them out. Sadly i missed the taxi jaguar but hopefully in a few months i shall me based at Cosford after my basic training and i can see the beautiful machine everyday.

If I'm able to i will be there next year as a crowd member or maybe working the show which to me is a win/win
MarkyVx

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby JOHN STEPHENS on Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:23 pm

The Cosford organisers are asking for feedback so here goes, but first a bit of background.
My wife and I have been to every Cosford Air Day since 1984, so we’ve seen the good and the not so good and know our way round, particularly with regards to getting in and out.
We’ve also been to many other shows, with Chivenor and Upper Heyford being our special favourites (those were the days!)
I appreciate that Cosford is particularly hampered by the runway length, and also that the organisers don’t just have to cater for the enthusiast, but moreso for the Great British Public who just want to see something (anything!) flying.

So what about 2012?
Traffic in 9/10; traffic marshalling 9/10; general organisation 9/10; traffic out 10/10.

As for things which have been mentioned already:

Tents, etc.: We were parked dead-centre and about 20 cars back from the crowdline, so they didn’t really interfere, but when I went walkies I did think that there were a lot of them and in fact one of them was like a small marquee. Definitely no consideration for those behind them.
That said, there was a big lorry selling booze on the crowdline near us, so the organisers weren’t setting much of an example.
Incidentally, we weren’t too bad this year, but on occasion we’ve been parked behind a camper van or minibus, which just blocks everything out - couldn’t the organisers put them in a separate compound at the back?

The display: Generally very good, but with one or two honourable exceptions (e.g. the VC10), it was a repeat of previous years, and we’d seen most of the ‘acts’ before.
We never tire of the Reds and the BBMF, but why not ask our Yank friends to provide an F-15 or an A10? They do it for other shows, so why not Cosford?
(Dreamland - since we’ve sold them all our Harriers, why not ask if they could display an AV8B?)
Oh, and I spent £5 on a programme only to find that the display bore little or no resemblance to the timetable - at one point I thought it was all over, with flightline aircraft leaving, only for there to be three or four more ‘acts’.

Static: Not bad considering what can and can’t get into Cosford. Nothing to really excite an enthusiast, but that’s not who they’re aiming at.

Ground ‘attractions’: Very disappointed with the market - packed out with charity/society stands and ‘tourist stuff’, but I wanted some ref. books and accessories for my scanner and I never saw one single stand. By the way, I’d no intention of fighting my way through the crowds to the Museum shop.

Catering: Ridiculous prices! £3.20 for 6 miniscule doughnuts which weren’t even hot. I know it probably costs the caterers a lot to get on, and they want to make hay while the sun shines, but it’s really getting silly. Say no more.

Overall verdict: The above gripes might sound like I’m unhappy, but I’m not. Yes, it wasn’t perfect, but it was still very good and we still enjoyed it greatly.

After nearly 30 years Cosford is a family tradition, and we’ve already got next year’s pencilled in.

John Stephens
Stourbridge
JOHN STEPHENS

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby YoungWelshLad on Wed 20 Jun 2012, 12:49 am

All in all, an absolutely superb day! Easy to get in, Car parking relatively quick, simple..

Got into the showground, went straight to the crowdline and remained there all day, got a good spot and the front in the center and it was completely worth it!

10:30am and time for the Jag, great to see! Never got to see one flying in the flesh so might have 'meant more' to many others than to myself, but as I've said great to see nevertheless, and if it became a yearly thing, would certainly keep many coming back!

10:45am, Model flying display, some really neat little kits there!! That Yak didn't half have a rasp on it!!

12:00am, start of the flying display, a few points from me now..

1) Great, varied line up, something for everyone, more of the same next year please! :wink:

2) Meteor, Tonka's, P-40, Reds and Typhoon were all outstanding! Has to be said though taking everything into account The Blades had the best display of the day, outstanding stuff, and well worth staying until the end for!

3) VC10, What a coup, very well executed passes from a classic, classic RAF Legend! Such a shame it'll be gone next year! Well done on Securing it and it was good to hear those conways with some power!!

4) Commentary was slightly ( note the sarcasm.. :wink: ) too loud! When near a speaker it could be quite unpleasant at times.. That is, however, my only criticism of the day!

Now, a few suggestions for next year..

1) Perhaps consider moving the flying display to start at 11 and go on until Half 4 instead of half 5, that way, with the airfield being open until half 6, It will give those of us that head straight to the crowdline right at the Beginning of the day a chance to look around the trade stands, and the Museum, and etc..

2) Perhaps do what Maffet suggested, try to get PT to bring down more than one of his A/C!

3) Book the Great War team Again! Some superb photo opportunism and a great, unique display all round! :up:

A final point, perhaps consider an Enthusiasts enclosure on the crowdline!? That way, enthusiasts can pay extra to get in but therefore avoid having to fight for a good place on the crowdline, and get away from the Tents/ Windbreaks and etc.. Also, little kids messing about, fighting at the front of the crowdline, after pushing they're way through to get there, and then just mucking about and not watching the displays, and what do the parents do, nothing.. :wall:

Anyway, I echo my earlier comment, a Great show and one that D200 and the team should be proud of! I'll be sure to return next year!

Cheers, Jamie... :up:
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YoungWelshLad

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby DaveBlu on Wed 20 Jun 2012, 6:22 am

D200 wrote: The problem gazebos are noted and we will review options next year, although sadly human beings are a territorial bunch after years of getting up early to mark their turf with beach towels. Signage could be an intermediate solution that we may employ.


Some of these Neanderthals wouldn't be able to read the signage :lol:
I've just read the T's & C's on my as yet unsold Waddington Tickets, they state:-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/davehblu/7406205998/in/photostream/lightbox/

If published on tickets and signage placed on the fencing, this may deter those that erect these nylon shantys from doing such.
DaveBlu

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby Andyperkins on Wed 20 Jun 2012, 11:52 am

JOHN STEPHENS wrote:We never tire of the Reds and the BBMF, but why not ask our Yank friends to provide an F-15 or an A10? They do it for other shows, so why not Cosford?


The USAF got rid of all their demo's this year except the Thunderbirds and F22.
Andyperkins

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby A380FWWOW on Thu 21 Jun 2012, 2:56 pm

Duxfordian wrote:
A380FWWOW wrote:I couldn't hear the errors made by S Moffat!



You're being ironic right?



No, I couldnt hear a tannoy, so I have only heard others comments about it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/65589468@N04/
View on this site are my views and not those of any organisation!
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A380FWWOW

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby DaveBlu on Thu 21 Jun 2012, 5:53 pm

Although Sean made a few errors, I think overall he did a great job with the tools he had, it seemed that the scheduled events didn't quite go according to plan and had to hoof it several times, what really mattered was the craft themselves, I'm sure some of you seasoned officianados found countless faults with his P.A, but overall the show was worthy of some credit, it's easy to find a scapegoat and apportion criticism, I'm more than 100% sure those involved with organising next years show will take heed of the bad bits, but I am over a 1000% sure that you'll have different things to gripe about next year.
Last edited by DaveBlu on Thu 21 Jun 2012, 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DaveBlu

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby airsound on Thu 21 Jun 2012, 6:16 pm

Thanks for the comments about the commentary, st24 and others.

First, I have to put up a rather embarrassed hand and cough to cocking up the Nieuport and SE5. Shouldn’t have happened. All I can say is, I hadn’t been told the Nieuport wasn’t there, and I was too far away easily to see the difference. I should have checked with my bins and didn’t! Sorry.

JP colour scheme. It’s not noted in any of the documentation, including the website, which is out of date about sponsorship as well. I’ve had to talk to Neil McCarthy today to ascertain that, as you suggest, it is now in the colours of a solo display aircraft - Andy Offer’s, actually - still from Linton, though.

Vulcan. I wouldn’t have mentioned her, except that the volunteers had brought a medium-sized stand to the show to try and continue getting money to get her back into the air as soon as possible. I did not suggest that she would have been at the show had she been serviceable - merely that she wasn’t available anyway, and that people might want to support her return to the skies by visiting the stand. Not apologising for that one!

Anyway - all comment welcome - seriously! (But thanks DaveBlu!)

Btw, as I said at the end of the day, I thought the new management did a really good job, bearing in mind that it was the first time at Cosford for the whole team, excluding the flying display folks and us.

sean
airsound
airsound

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