RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Forum for information about the annual show at RAF Cosford
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speedshrew
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by speedshrew »

Nice to have that cleared up by RAF Cosford. Good on them for coming out and addressing the concerns
I have a question now about disabled parking. I have been offered a ride by someone who is going to the show. However, I don't ave a blue badge as I have no car of my own. If I take my DLA letter, will that be enough to prove our right to park there?

borismorris
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by borismorris »

What else can you do? I will be there and I will be down the EASTERN end as I always am. I will let you know how it goes because it seems I will be in a different timezone. Would Shawbury be a viable alternative?

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Wrexham Mackem
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Wrexham Mackem »

st24 wrote:Now we've had official answers I'm even more bemused. As caper eluded to- there is no way that the Italian Tornado?!? and Swiss team won't overfly Albrighton whilst performing some high energy manoeuvering be it aerobatic or not. So the A464 and 17, yeas 17!!!! tributary lanes and roads closed for an hour or so so that highly trained RAF pilots in impeccably well serviced and maintained aeroplanes can fly displays that they have trained months for and know inside out.
This is still complete and utter crap and surely points out that Cosford is no longer a viable airshow location. Again nodding to m'learned colleague - West Freugh is good, or Machrihanish perhaps??.. :dunno: :facepalm:


Yeah. I'm trying to give as much benefit of the doubt as I can, but it seems that a bunch more risks have been created trying to mitigate one. I manage risk in my work life and I have to say my definition of acceptable risk is different to the interpretation on display here. But that's the thing, its subjective.

Poor old Cosford. If its not one thing its another.
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DerekF
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by DerekF »

A display line running along the line of the A464 will make the displays distant for a large portion of the crowd and presumably the displays will have to be higher or they won't be visible to those standing at the southern/western end because of the trees at that end. For those at the northern/eastern end the centre of the display, assuming the display centre somewhere around the extended centre-line of the runway, the display will be about 1.5km away - nearly a mile. As this only seems to affect two RAF displays (for now at least), I'll still plan on going.

PirateTrickster
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by PirateTrickster »

capercaillie wrote:
PirateTrickster wrote:Whilst we won't have the Reds and Typhoon as close as we'd like, we still do have :-

- Sea Vixen


Ambitious perhaps. :whistle:


Have I missed something?

Flare Path
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Flare Path »

PirateTrickster wrote:
capercaillie wrote:
PirateTrickster wrote:Whilst we won't have the Reds and Typhoon as close as we'd like, we still do have :-

- Sea Vixen


Ambitious perhaps. :whistle:


Have I missed something?


The Sea Vixen won't be at Cosford, due to a U/C issue on landing after it's appearance at the Duxford Air Festival - you can show your support for the Sea Vixen at the Navy Wings tent on Sunday.

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Pat Murphy
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pat Murphy »

st24 wrote:This is still complete and utter crap and surely points out that Cosford is no longer a viable airshow location. Again nodding to m'learned colleague - West Freugh is good, or Machrihanish perhaps??.. :dunno: :facepalm:



I believe an alternative location was examined for this show, but RAF Mount Pleasant declared it a no go due to the birdstrike risk from the local Penguin colony. :whistle: Keep up everybody :grin: That and the slightly poorer public transport links........

Farcical. Anyone got any nails for the coffin that is RAF displays?
Sadly, after the parking debacle a couple of years ago, I have decided to give Cosford a miss in future, especially sad as it's the RAF's ONLY show...lets just consider that for a second.
Being of a certain age :whistle: , I can remember visiting a station each weekend from June onwards and had the show diary planned for most of the Summer. This year, partly because of work, I will take in Duxford 3 times and Fairford, probably Rhyl as it's local and........well that's it really :sad:

PirateTrickster
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by PirateTrickster »

Flare Path wrote:
PirateTrickster wrote:
capercaillie wrote:
PirateTrickster wrote:Whilst we won't have the Reds and Typhoon as close as we'd like, we still do have :-

- Sea Vixen


Ambitious perhaps. :whistle:


Have I missed something?


The Sea Vixen won't be at Cosford, due to a U/C issue on landing after it's appearance at the Duxford Air Festival - you can show your support for the Sea Vixen at the Navy Wings tent on Sunday.


==> ah, that's a shame (missed that as I was out of the country, not getting back till late last night).

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

So, EIGHTEEN roads closed, presumably at the airshow's expense.

This is the RAF trying to make display flying unviable, and Cosford likewise as a venue. It reeks to high heaven. I wish the team would just tell them where to stick their mediocre RAFAT and third-rate fast jet display. The show doesn't need them, or the hassle.

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Pringles
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:This is the RAF trying to make display flying unviable, and Cosford likewise as a venue. It reeks to high heaven. I wish the team would just tell them where to stick their mediocre RAFAT and third-rate fast jet display. The show doesn't need them, or the hassle.

Airshow Chairman wrote:it was my decision... we couldn't fit them into our display area

Seems to me it was the Cosford team that decided there was a problem?
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DerekF
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by DerekF »

Yes, I read it as the FDD that has decided that they couldn't make the risk low enough while manoeuvring over a "congested" area. If all FDDs take this view then many more display sites will be affected.

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Pringles
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

DerekF wrote:Yes, I read it as the FDD that has decided that they couldn't make the risk low enough while manoeuvring over a "congested" area. If all FDDs take this view then many more display sites will be affected.

Indeed, this is the best transcript of the response in full that I could manage:
For this year the FDD has had to formally defined the display area and propagate that to all of the participants at this year's show... The regulations absolutely preclude aerobatic flying over congested areas, so there's no getting away from the fact that Albrighton is a congested area and therefore aerobatic flying over that area is forbidden... The MAA regulation that applies to this states that: "All flying displays shall be managed, organised and delivered in order to reduce the risk of life to at least tolerable and as low as reasonably practical"... So it was my decision, we engaged with the Red Arrows and the Typhoon, we couldn't fit them into our display area and we couldn't allow them to fly over Albrighton, and therefore we have shifted the display axis to protect that we can have full displays from those acts.
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andrewn
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by andrewn »

Regardless of the individuals involved in making this particular decision I think it's been clear for some time now that RAF support for public air displays is low to non-existent. The cynic in me thinks the fact RAFAT are so publicly being reined in is merely preparation for the inevitable "chop". Likewise I strongly suspect the Typhoon display will be taking a "breather" shortly and never to return (due to operational requirements of course!).

For me personally I feel very fortunate to have lived through, arguably, a golden age of military supported airshows in the UK - the like of which we almost certainly wont be seeing again.

For those, such as the Cosford team, that for now continue to battle against the odds and persevere in the face of complex and possibly contradictory guidelines on risk management, disaster planning, traffic management, road closures, revised display axis, other miscellaneous restrictions and constraints then I SALUTE YOU :rock:

Lucasjmet15
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Lucasjmet15 »

International update tonight, looks like the USAF !! :rock:

106500
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by 106500 »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:So, EIGHTEEN roads closed, presumably at the airshow's expense.

This is the RAF trying to make display flying unviable, and Cosford likewise as a venue. It reeks to high heaven. I wish the team would just tell them where to stick their mediocre RAFAT and third-rate fast jet display. The show doesn't need them, or the hassle.


Absolutely agree - and things will get much worse; to me a decision has been made, in government or elsewhere at a senior level that airshows are inherently unsafe (despite evidence to the contrary and the reality of the situation) - paranoia has crept in that there just might be another fatal incident and the political repercussions are deemed too significant. Shoreham spelt the death knell and sad to say I believe we'll see a slow decline leading to elimination of the event as we know it in say 5-10 years.
Last edited by 106500 on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Luke28
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Luke28 »

Lucasjmet15 wrote:International update tonight, looks like the USAF !! :rock:


Probably the Irish.

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capercaillie
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by capercaillie »

Lucasjmet15 wrote:International update tonight, looks like the USAF !! :rock:


A B-52 circuit at Fairford would constitute as a display at Cosford with the new display axis surely? :whistle:
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Lucasjmet15
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Lucasjmet15 »

Luke28 wrote:
Lucasjmet15 wrote:International update tonight, looks like the USAF !! :rock:


Probably the Irish.



[tweet]https://twitter.com/cosfordairshow/status/871750683569029126[/tweet]

Luke28
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Luke28 »

Lucasjmet15 wrote:
Luke28 wrote:
Lucasjmet15 wrote:International update tonight, looks like the USAF !! :rock:


Probably the Irish.



[tweet]https://twitter.com/cosfordairshow/status/871750683569029126[/tweet]


Aaaagh nice one! :up:

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Pringles
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

Luke28 wrote:
Lucasjmet15 wrote:International update tonight, looks like the USAF !! :rock:


Probably the Irish.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/cosfordairshow/status/871750683569029126[/tweet]
Chips, American Football ball and a hot dog? Does seem to suggest USAF, mind you will they want to come if the first and last two are the go-to clues for their nation? :grin:
Last edited by Pringles on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rdchawk
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by rdchawk »

106500 wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:So, EIGHTEEN roads closed, presumably at the airshow's expense.

This is the RAF trying to make display flying unviable, and Cosford likewise as a venue. It reeks to high heaven. I wish the team would just tell them where to stick their mediocre RAFAT and third-rate fast jet display. The show doesn't need them, or the hassle.


Absolutely agree - and things will get much worse, to me a decision has been made, in government or elsewhere at a senior level that airshows are inherently unsafe (despite evidence to the contrary and the reality of the situation) - paranoia has crept in that there just might be another fatal incident and the political repercussions are deemed too significant. Shoreham spelt the death knell and sad to say I believe we'll see a slow decline leading to elimination of the event as we know it in say 5-10 years.


So....will be fun then if M11 needs to be closed for RAFAT at Duxford and the A1M for RAFAT at Shuttleworth.
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Luke28
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Luke28 »

Lucasjmet15 wrote:
Luke28 wrote:
Lucasjmet15 wrote:International update tonight, looks like the USAF !! :rock:


Probably the Irish.



[tweet]https://twitter.com/cosfordairshow/status/871750683569029126[/tweet]


Aaagh nice one!

JonG96
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by JonG96 »

Luke28 wrote:
Lucasjmet15 wrote:International update tonight, looks like the USAF !! :rock:


Probably the Irish.


Not sure the Irish are known for their Fries, Football & Hotdogs :grin: :lol: :wink:

Luke28
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Luke28 »

JonG96 wrote:
Luke28 wrote:
Lucasjmet15 wrote:International update tonight, looks like the USAF !! :rock:


Probably the Irish.


Not sure the Irish are known for their Fries, Football & Hotdogs :grin: :lol: :wink:


Thats quite clearly a Gaelic football :grin:

B-52 flypast again or maybe a static Osprey as a guess.

Flare Path
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Flare Path »

US Osprey?

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