RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Forum for information about the annual show at RAF Cosford
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Lucasjmet15
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Lucasjmet15 »

I would like to know what was actually going on during THAT b52 flypast ! :shock: :sweat: :ninja:

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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Lucasjmet15 »

eddywinch82 wrote:And Thankyou so much Peter Reoch, for organizing such an excellent, varied display and static lineup.



Amen to that ! :up:

Ryan.
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Ryan. »

First time to Cosford and a great show it was too.

Highlights: the Swiss PC-7 team, they did a great formation display. The Italain Tornado put on a very good show of itself and the B-52 did a great couple of passes as well. I also enjoyed the BBMF fighters' and the Strikemaster and Jet Provest put on a good show of themselves. Glad I finally caught the Whirlwind aswell. :clap:

Only two negatives, the Red Arrows were pretty poor. That display line just took away so much from their display, it just didn't work. Secondly, the commentary was, for the much part, terrible. At some points it felt poorly researched and came across very amateurish. An awful lot of rambling too.

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st24
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by st24 »

JJC wrote:Perplexing that the Typhoon had gone tech and still did a fast pass/power climb? Was it tech or not? :confused:


This. Surely the last thing you want to do with a sick aeroplane is do high speed pass and power climb in front if the very public you shouldn't be displaying in front of?!!! :ninja: Doesn't quite ring right to my ageing cynicism.... That said had the full display gone ahead it would have been nothing more than a noisy dot off in the far distance. I find it joyous that a 40+ year old mud mover completely owned the show... :clap:
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JonG96
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by JonG96 »

st24 wrote:
JJC wrote:Perplexing that the Typhoon had gone tech and still did a fast pass/power climb? Was it tech or not? :confused:


This. Surely the last thing you want to do with a sick aeroplane is do high speed pass and power climb in front if the very public you shouldn't be displaying in front of?!!! :ninja: Doesn't quite ring right to my ageing cynicism.... That said had the full display gone ahead it would have been nothing more than a noisy dot off in the far distance. I find it joyous that a 40+ year old mud mover completely owned the show... :clap:


I do not get that either. Maybe just too scared to get wet and perform in the rain that started very soon after it left??!! :grin: :lol:

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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by davidjones533 »

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Last edited by davidjones533 on Sun 12 Aug 2018, 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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kc10
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by kc10 »

As usual a cracking day out. A good line up both on the ground and in the air and well managed traffic both in and out, took us less than ten minutes to get in and about twenty minutes to get out. The bad weather added to the atmosphere of the Lancer I thought, the swiss were as precise as most things to come from Switzerland, Apache was brilliant as usual and the Tornado without a doubt owned the day. My 7 year old daughter was gutted about the Typhoon going tech but still loved the wingwalkers and reds, which I thought even from where we were at the western end Just didn't have the same effect on the new axis. Well done to all who organized a great day.

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

I watched online and thought Preoch and team put on the best show they could have, only let down by the weather and the RAF.

Mainly I watched to see what the revised display line was like for the Yellowjacks, and it was as embarrassingly distant as we thought it would be. The farce of being introduced as "The World's Best Display Team" (script copyright 1975), then displaying in another county. If a venue that's been safe enough for them for 40 years is no longer so, but is for every other act bar the Aldi Rafale, then do the decent thing and don't bother turning up. Airshows are bigger than the Red Arrows.

As for the Typhoon, st24 echoes what I texted Dan B - can't be that "broken" if you can fast pass and zoom climb in full afterburner. I wonder if the pilot was scared of keeping to the new box, or worried about the inbound B-1? A farce, again.

The Italians showed the RAF what the spectacle of display flying is all about, and it was a major coup to get the USAF heavies.

The RAF need to go away and take a long look in the mirror. How many more ludicrous changes of display axis or spurious cancellations will we see this season?

Have to agree on the commentary - Ruffle is awful and waffles away (at one point flicking through the programme and talking about what was on each page "nice picture of the Chief Of Air Staff, writing a letter") but was at least better than last year, which is faint praise, and Andy Pawsey's voice isn't to my tastes. Just not a broadcaster. Makes you appreciate Maffett in his prime, or just how good Ben Dunnell is now.

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DerekF
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by DerekF »

I don't know what was wrong with the Typhoon but there are plenty of things that can wrong with an aircraft that could preclude a display but not a flypast. HUD, G-suit, altimeter, any number of things that would mean a safe display is out the question.

As far as I understand, the Red Arrows were displaying to a line dictated to them by the FDD not the RAF. If we are going to blame anyone let's get the blame going in at least the right direction. There is no doubt in my mind that having seen the display from the crowd centre that the revised display line is a non-starter. The Red Arrows displayed as professionally and as competently as they always do but they have to adhere to what ever the FDD dictates.

The question to be asked is why the display line had to be altered for two of the acts.

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stevebrodie
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by stevebrodie »

Ryan. wrote:.......Secondly, the commentary was, for the much part, terrible. At some points it felt poorly researched and came across very amateurish. An awful lot of rambling too.


$20,000 or a LOACH, i will take two. :shock:
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Gingercake
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Gingercake »

Couldn't make the airshow this year, unfortunately, but saw stuff from afar from my house and visited on Friday evening to see the stuff on the ground. The BONE and BUFF looked impressive from my house!!

But have to agree the new display line was a farce. Apparently it wasn't safe for the Reds to overfly Albrighton but it was ok for some to fly over Shifnal.

Anyway, that aside well done to Peter and team for what looked a good show :clap:.

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Pringles
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:I watched online and thought Preoch and team put on the best show they could have, only let down by the weather and the RAF.

The RAF need to go away and take a long look in the mirror. How many more ludicrous changes of display axis will we see this season?

Contradiction there, as has been pointed out it was the Cosford team that created and enforced this new axis, not the RAF - should have no bearing elsewhere either as a result
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eddywinch82
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by eddywinch82 »

I thoroughly enjoyed the Airshow. I was made up to see the fast flypasts of the B1-B and B52. Especially the B1-B which looked spectacular, with wings swept back and doing a full afterburner fast pass.

Afterburners glowing against the dark sky ! Awesome stuff. The B52 did 2 passes, which were awesome aswell. I have only ever seen both those aircraft on Airshow Videos and DVD's.

I agree with others, about the commentary. Certainly not up to Ben Dunnell's standard and others. He didn't tell the crowd, that the B1-B Lancer was inbound to Cosford.

So luckily I was looking in the correct direction at the time, when it came through. I am sure other people missed it though.

Also he didn't seem aware that the B52 was inbound either, but at least we got a second pass.

I was also really pleased to see the Antonov AN-2 and The Westland Whirlwind helicopter which is one I have never seen display before at an Airshow. Eddie
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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Pringles wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:I watched online and thought Preoch and team put on the best show they could have, only let down by the weather and the RAF.

The RAF need to go away and take a long look in the mirror. How many more ludicrous changes of display axis will we see this season?

Contradiction there, as has been pointed out it was the Cosford team that created and enforced this new axis, not the RAF - should have no bearing elsewhere either as a result


I guarantee there will be other venues this year at which the Red Arrows are unable to display on the same line as previous years.

My feeling is that Cosford taking the bullet is face-saving on the part of the RAF.

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speedbird2639
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by speedbird2639 »

Great show - shame the weather didn't play ball. :up: to Peter and them team for a great show and thanks for all the hard work.

Good points:

Italian Tornado; P-51 Mustang; BBMF (but the Lanc fixed asap - its not the same without that); B-17; B-52 and B-1 fly pasts; Jet Provost/ Strikemaster pair; thought the Anson showed you can display an older plane well at a sedate pace; well laid out ground and hangar exhibits. Also loved the AN-2 doing its 19mph 'speed over ground' slow pass into the wind - makes the F-16 high alpha pass look quite rushed in comparison.

The only downsides were: the Typhoon (or the 'Aldi Rafale' as it will now be forever known) - agree with several previous posters - if your plane is so 'tech' you can't display then don't do a 'this is what you could have seen' full burner pass and vertical climb, just leave. I guess the RAF will never bother to inform us what the actual problem was but it did smack of not wanting to get shown up by the Italians and their 40 year old plane.

And the Reds - well what can we say. I'm guessing they had to do a flat/ rolling display as the weather was closing in at that stage but what an embarrassment. So they didn't want to overfly Albrighton (pop. less than 5k) but they were happy to do a crowd rear start to the show over 50k people :clown: As Dan said if you can't/ won't do it properly then just don't bother at all you won't be missed by most. A few years ago (well probably 10 years) they had a more dynamic fast paced show but in recent years they've lapsed back into a lazy, gappy, disjointed mish mash of a show. Time for a rethink from top to bottom with the Reds I fear - too much dining out on past glories.

Can the commentary position not be moved closer to the display line? I'm sure a temporary scaffold tower could be built and a Portakabin craned on top. Several times as a display was finishing they said "Well I assume he's landed OK but we can't actually see from here!" And they were completely caught on the hop by the B-52's entry and if there hadn't been a second pass I think a lot of people would have missed their photo opportunity.

Massive :up: for finding a traffic management system that really works. Going to Cosford was always a lengthy queue to get in followed by a minimum of a 2 hour wait to leave. Not anymore! Drove straight in just before 9am and left at 5pm and was off the base by 5.10pm.

fastjet001
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by fastjet001 »

Great day. Weather was good, seeing the B-1B fly through the dark clouds was awesome. Personal highlight was for me was the BBMF. Tornado was also very impressive, it is rare you see them performing in a clean config. B-52 and B-17 were also both amazing. Chinook as ever was cool too. The entire flying display was really good and well put together. Drove straight onto the airfield (8am) and straight off (6.30pm) with hardly no waiting. Downsides: the Red Arrows, they were too, too far away. You could not feel the energy on the crowd line, this made me wish I was in the fields closer to them - not good. This will be a major problem for Cosford in the future unless it is sorted out. I would imagine the Typhoon display was culled at the last minute, as the true gravity of the new display axis become apparent to the RAF bosses during the Red Arrows display, but it could have been a technical issue (but then why use reheat for the flypast?) But overall a brilliant day out, and I look forward to 2018. But the display axis issue must be sorted somehow.

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Regarding the Reds overflying the crowd to open their show, they now boast that that "formation" is 1000ft wide. Man, with close formation skills like that, no wonder the Frecce and Patrouilles de France and Suisse show them up for exactly what they are - a once-great team bound by officious rule-making, and a willingness to rest on past glories and reputation.

From Red 10's tired old script to the turgid display itself, the Reds need re-booting, or just booting into touch full stop.

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Harvo266
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Harvo266 »

On speaking to the Typhoon pilot yesterday evening, it was the ECS that wasn't working, so the Environmental Conditioning System, which covers cockpit pressurization, avionics cooling and air supply to the pilot. If he was to display, he could have had lack of oxygen, de-pressurization and more. However, for the flypast he did, he pulled vertical and leveled out at around 1500ft max, meaning it was safe but at the top end of what he could do without being dangerous. I think that the right decision was made, and the pilot was very decent to at least give the crowds something.
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DerekF
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by DerekF »

Harvo266 wrote:On speaking to the Typhoon pilot yesterday evening, it was the ECS that wasn't working, so the Environmental Conditioning System, which covers cockpit pressurization, avionics cooling and air supply to the pilot. If he was to display, he could have had lack of oxygen, de-pressurization and more. However, for the flypast he did, he pulled vertical and leveled out at around 1500ft max, meaning it was safe but at the top end of what he could do without being dangerous. I think that the right decision was made, and the pilot was very decent to at least give the crowds something.


Thanks for sharing the info. It would have to be something like that. I guess now all those who called the Typhoon pilot's credibility into question will be forthcoming in their apologies. There appears to be an increasing number of people posting here who seem to relish rubbishing aircraft, pilots, venues etc. without having the decency to find out the facts before putting forward their opinions.

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Harvo266
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Harvo266 »

DerekF wrote:
Harvo266 wrote:On speaking to the Typhoon pilot yesterday evening, it was the ECS that wasn't working, so the Environmental Conditioning System, which covers cockpit pressurization, avionics cooling and air supply to the pilot. If he was to display, he could have had lack of oxygen, de-pressurization and more. However, for the flypast he did, he pulled vertical and leveled out at around 1500ft max, meaning it was safe but at the top end of what he could do without being dangerous. I think that the right decision was made, and the pilot was very decent to at least give the crowds something.


Thanks for sharing the info. It would have to be something like that. I guess now all those who called the Typhoon pilot's credibility into question will be forthcoming in their apologies. There appears to be an increasing number of people posting here who seem to relish rubbishing aircraft, pilots, venues etc. without having the decency to find out the facts before putting forward their opinions.

Exactly, and when I spoke to him, I could tell he was really annoyed he couldn't display, and I think for some people to say he didn't display because he was 'scared' about the display line is utterly ridiculous and quite unfair.
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speedbird2639
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by speedbird2639 »

Given the fact the weather was closing in at that point could he not switch to his flat display and then the pressurisation wouldn't be an issue? Cloud base was about 1000' (if that) at the time.

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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by cg_341 »

Didn't he go back to Coningsby at high level though? Or was that just misreported elsewhere?

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Pringles
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Regarding the Reds overflying the crowd to open their show, they now boast that that "formation" is 1000ft wide. Man, with close formation skills like that, no wonder the Frecce and Patrouilles de France and Suisse show them up for exactly what they are - a once-great team bound by officious rule-making, and a willingness to rest on past glories and reputation.

From Red 10's tired old script to the turgid display itself, the Reds need re-booting, or just booting into touch full stop.

Clearly you're so afraid of making contact with the Great Unwashed that you've never been near small children or families during the Reds' display. Even with the distant axis affecting the display, there were shouts of awe, and the kid near me with a Red Arrows hat and jumper on was beside himself. Just because they don't have the same effect on you any more doesn't mean that the thousands in the crowds at shows agree. You "boot them into touch" and airshows in this country would wither and disappear, aside from perhaps OW and Duxford, as crowd numbers plummet.
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scottspencer
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by scottspencer »

Surprisingly at the eastern end quite a lot of families were leaving during the reds display

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DerekF
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by DerekF »

speedbird2639 wrote:Given the fact the weather was closing in at that point could he not switch to his flat display and then the pressurisation wouldn't be an issue? Cloud base was about 1000' (if that) at the time.


Are you implying that he used the fault as an excuse not to display? Why would he do that? His aircraft had a fault that he decided was severe enough not safe to continue with the display. His call and not yours to criticize.

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