RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Forum for information about the annual show at RAF Cosford
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Pringles
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Wise up. Far less of a PR own goal if the RAF's airshow takes the blame, rather than the RAF's display teams. Don't swallow all that you read verbatim.

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effects
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by effects »

DOH! "Wise up. Far less of a PR own goal if the RAF's airshow takes the blame, rather than the RAF's display teams. Don't swallow all that you read verbatim."
Any evidence? probably not, because as an outsider and constant critic of the RAF you will not have anyone 'in the know' to talk to.
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borismorris
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by borismorris »

The B-1 was announced, I was stood under the shelter of a burger van and came out into the murk upon the announcement.. was maybe two minutes before it arrived.

I can understand folk not hearing though. It was just as the weather looked like it was about to kick off.

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Spotty_Jag
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Spotty_Jag »

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andrewn
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by andrewn »

I think Peter gave the answer a bit ago; the Reds and Typhoon both have "restrictions" to their PDA that basically stops them displaying anywhere near what might be termed a populated area. I suspect the comments by the Wg Cdr are true in that the issue will have been bought to his attention, following which he will have had a couple of choices, one of which would have been to cancel both acts and the other to go ahead with the revised (and shockingly bad) axis. So it kind of was and kind of wasnt his decision. It's a sad state of affairs and will only change if the authorising officer(s) deem the risk acceptable again. Thats my take on it all anyway!

DonaldGrump
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by DonaldGrump »

I think Peter and his team can be well pleased with their efforts and how it turned out overall.

The weather was not perfect but it could have been far worse, infact the brief but spell of foul weather somehow contrived to enhance that very moody B1 pass.

As for the content of the show, the already mentioned B1 pass was worth the journey alone and the soaking that had to be endured in order to watch it. The B52 another big plus, and intentional or not to see it in the same sky as the B17 was quite special. As mentioned the Italian Tornado probably was the overall highlight. Lots of other enjoyable stuff and all things even an 8 out of 10 from me.

The negatives beyond Peter and his team, the loss of the Sea Vixen and Lancaster which would be a body blow to any show regardless of other content.

As for what really was in my view an absolute debacle with the Reds and Typhoon, whether it is Cosford or the RAF who is responsible someone really needs to consider a new career as a traffic warden or something equally pointless. Was it Dan who suggested the Typhoon was pulled for other than tech reasons? Well given some of the Typhoon team would have seen the Reds display and how absolutely bloody rubbish it looked from that angle and distance and realised the Typhoon would have looked even more ridiculous, and chosen to pull the plug. So I dont dismiss this suggestion with the contempt others have.

Anyway overall Cosford 2017 in my opinion anyway was a success, that with a bit more luck and some intelligent common sense could have been a classic.

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Spotty_Jag wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:Wise up. Far less of a PR own goal if the RAF's airshow takes the blame, rather than the RAF's display teams. Don't swallow all that you read verbatim.

Totally correct. No way the Air Show Chairman or Station Commander would ruin their promotion prospects by pointing the finger of blame at their Duty Holder chain of command, or throw the Red Arrows under the bus. It was obvious that the Facebook video featuring the Wing Commander saying it was "his decision" is rubbish, as he's not the Flying Display Director first and foremost, just the spokeperson for the station. I think given how open and honest Peter is on the forums/social media he would have said if it was their decision. I think the RAF top brass are happily letting Cosford's staff take for fall for the Red Arrows issues.


Fairford will be the acid test. Displays certainly overfly populated campsites, but do they ever overfly Fairford village during the displays?

The RAF will be laughed out of town if they have to fly to their own display line at a show where other national teams will have no such problem...

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Pringles
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere, but congratulations are in order for the PC-7 Team, which won the Bill Hartree Memorial Trophy yesterday. Whilst the Tornado certainly brought the noise, I challenge any of you to point out a more consistently precise and polished display on the day than the Swiss :clap:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/SwissEmbassyUK/status/874288570902728704[/tweet]
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davidjones533

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by davidjones533 »

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aviodromefriend
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by aviodromefriend »

davidjones533 wrote:If the situation was reversed and it was the Italian, then there would not be this level of venom directed at the team. Some people seem to have a real hatred of our servicemen and a need for continual tabloid sensationalism which I for one do not understand.
When the F-22 stopped its display at RIAT last year, about the same happened at UKAR. Well, actually the Yanks were even slated for getting their spare airborne for a display at Duxford, instead of using it for a second go at Fairford.
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borismorris
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by borismorris »

A few further thoughts from this Salopian (ok- I'm on exile at the moment)...

Albrightons population is around 4500. A reasonable chunk of this number would presumably be at the show. So what sort of number constitutes a large population or congested area?
As already said by others the campsites at Fairford will surely have this number+. Fairford village has a population around 3200 I believe...
What about Biggin Hill, what about Farnborough?...

It's unclear to me why the display axis needed to be moved so far.. couldn't the new datum been moved over to the west by a quarter mile? Enabling the aircraft to pass airfield side of Albrighton? Failing that why couldn't the passes which would have resulted in Albrighton being overflown merely divert around the East of the village? As said, it's not a big place.

Did the Tornado manage to avoid Albrighton?

It's such a shame that all the focus seems to be on the Typhoon and RAFAT when there was so many positives. The static display has barely been mentioned in comparison. Didn't the EAP look awesome, how small did the Spartan look next to the Atlas, etc...

scottspencer
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by scottspencer »

Anyone happen to note the reds registrations?

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

scottspencer wrote:Anyone happen to note the reds registrations?


hubblespacetelescope@nasa.org might be your best bet.

scottspencer
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by scottspencer »

Lol, managed to get them if anyone needs them.

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capercaillie
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by capercaillie »

borismorris wrote: Did the Tornado manage to avoid Albrighton?


Just on that point alone, it clearly performed a half Cuban over the edge of Albrighton, over the sports club/roses place, so not only did it not avoid the town, it performed aeros there. :grin:

Wherever the directive came from, its a sad state of affairs its attracted so much negativity, and detracted from a very good little show. :up:

Are we going to see Yeovilton, Limington and Ilchester avoided in a few weeks time? The Reds displaying on an axis over Speckington? :dunno:
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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

capercaillie wrote:
borismorris wrote: Did the Tornado manage to avoid Albrighton?


Just on that point alone, it clearly performed a half Cuban over the edge of Albrighton, over the sports club/roses place, so not only did it not avoid the town, it performed aeros there. :grin:

Wherever the directive came from, its a sad state of affairs its attracted so much negativity, and detracted from a very good little show. :up:

Are we going to see Yeovilton, Limington and Ilchester avoided in a few weeks time? The Reds displaying on an axis over Speckington? :dunno:


Yeovilton, Fairford. But what about Biggin Hill - surely there's no way they can display there now?

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speedbird2639
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by speedbird2639 »

Yeovilton, Fairford. But what about Biggin Hill - surely there's no way they can display there now?


aerobatics
/ˌɛərəʊˈbætɪks/
noun
1.
(functioning as singular or pl) spectacular or dangerous manoeuvres, performed in an aircraft ; stunt flying

https://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/displays/fu ... ce2017.cfm

So much of the reds display is tired and cliched that I'm sure they could argue that technically they are not really an aerobatics team - 'nine arrow to phoenix'? 'the concorde bend'? 'rollbacks'?

Its a bit embarrassing to show up at the only RAF airshow, start wibbling on about safe display lines and then get comprehensively shown up on your own turf by the Swiss displaying crowd centre, and who rightly won an award for their performance.

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DerekF
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by DerekF »

scottspencer wrote:Lol, managed to get them if anyone needs them.



If you've got them, post them please or PM me. Ta.

scottspencer
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by scottspencer »

XX227
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kianelle
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by kianelle »

I live in area so decided not to go into show .I wanted a picture of B52 approaching airfield so walked from my house around to end off runway A464 .I absolutely say that nobody was aloud to park roadside or stand anywhere in or around air display line it was completely cleared ..I decided to walk down burn hill road road which was closed to all traffic .In the field down burn hill road is were most people were being directed by police into a safe area ..I'm not sure if farmer who owns field agreed but that were they were told they could stand ..so u now have a completely safe zone of all traffic and people in and around air display line so imagine surprise when reds did display directly over very busy road (A464) and all the people sat in fields .I'm struggling to see how displaying over busy road and over people is safer than a area free from roads and people .

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

kianelle wrote:I live in area so decided not to go into show .I wanted a picture of B-52 approaching airfield so walked from my house around to end off runway A464 .I absolutely say that nobody was aloud to park roadside or stand anywhere in or around air display line it was completely cleared ..I decided to walk down burn hill road road which was closed to all traffic .In the field down burn hill road is were most people were being directed by police into a safe area ..I'm not sure if farmer who owns field agreed but that were they were told they could stand ..so u now have a completely safe zone of all traffic and people in and around air display line so imagine surprise when reds did display directly over very busy road (A464) and all the people sat in fields .I'm struggling to see how displaying over busy road and over people is safer than a area free from roads and people .


Don't UKAR rules stipulate posts must be in clear, legible English?

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DerekF
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by DerekF »

scottspencer wrote:XX227
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Thanks for that.

kianelle
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by kianelle »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
kianelle wrote:I live in area so decided not to go into show .I wanted a picture of B-52 approaching airfield so walked from my house around to end off runway A464 .I absolutely say that nobody was aloud to park roadside or stand anywhere in or around air display line it was completely cleared ..I decided to walk down burn hill road road which was closed to all traffic .In the field down burn hill road is were most people were being directed by police into a safe area ..I'm not sure if farmer who owns field agreed but that were they were told they could stand ..so u now have a completely safe zone of all traffic and people in and around air display line so imagine surprise when reds did display directly over very busy road (A464) and all the people sat in fields .I'm struggling to see how displaying over busy road and over people is safer than a area free from roads and people .


Don't UKAR rules stipulate posts must be in clear, legible English?


Hi sorry about that I suffer from Dysgraphia. I do try and do a spell check but it's not much help when you are not sure if you are selecting correct spelling. sorry it's all over the place. Hope it made a bit of sence though .lol.

davidjones533

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by davidjones533 »

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speedbird2639
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by speedbird2639 »

So there we have it people. The 'joined up thinking' between the show, the Reds and the Police was such according to our eye witness people were deliberately moved to an area which, due to the decision to move the Reds/ Typhoon display axis, meant they were now directly under the display, completely nullifying the original reasoning behind the change to "not perform aerobatics directly over dense populated areas".

Back to the drawing board with this one I think.

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