RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Forum for information about the annual show at RAF Cosford
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Ryan.
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Ryan. »

Pringles wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:Regarding the Reds overflying the crowd to open their show, they now boast that that "formation" is 1000ft wide. Man, with close formation skills like that, no wonder the Frecce and Patrouilles de France and Suisse show them up for exactly what they are - a once-great team bound by officious rule-making, and a willingness to rest on past glories and reputation.

From Red 10's tired old script to the turgid display itself, the Reds need re-booting, or just booting into touch full stop.

Clearly you're so afraid of making contact with the Great Unwashed that you've never been near small children or families during the Reds' display. Even with the distant axis affecting the display, there were shouts of awe, and the kid near me with a Red Arrows hat and jumper on was beside himself. Just because they don't have the same effect on you any more doesn't mean that the thousands in the crowds at shows agree. You "boot them into touch" and airshows in this country would wither and disappear, aside from perhaps OW and Duxford, as crowd numbers plummet.


That wasn't the case from where I was standing. A number of people commented how far they were displaying away and, something I've never seen before during a Red Arrows display, left. I'm not saying it was universal, of course not but would it have more affect had it had been on the same display line everything else used? Of course.

I also don't quite agree with you that the airshow scene in the UK is supported almost entirely by the Red Arrows. I get they are a major draw for a number of people however that doesn't mean they are above criticism or modernising their commentary in order to improve their display.
Last edited by Ryan. on Mon 12 Jun 2017, 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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lappup
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by lappup »

davidjones533 wrote:Enjoyed the static. Really fun to see the Merlin up close. Shame the O-2 had its covers on all day, but just a minor niggle.


It wasn't off all day, managed to get some shots with it off and the friendly chap with it let me look in the cockpit too :up:

PirateTrickster
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by PirateTrickster »

Superb day out for me and my son and my nephew. In fact, couldn't get round everything before the air display started (should it be a 2 day show etc etc).

Before the air display we visited the static aircraft and a great variety including some museum pieces set-up nicely for nice photos. Could't believe no-one else was taking pictures of the A109 when I was. Certainly the A400 was probably the highlight of the static stuff flown in. Liked the STEM hanger and the 2 kids spent a while making bridges from lollipop sticks and matches as part of the Mechnical Engineering stall.

Air display was fantastic - huge variety and real kudos to Peter and the team for securing some real coups - the Italian Tornado, the Swiss PC-7 team (award winning display I read on their FB page), the B-52 and the B1-B. My highlight was probably the Tornado although that B1-B full afterburner pass was something that will linger long in memory. Can't believe the first B-52 pass during the B-17 display - surely some sort of issue with ATC?

No issues at all with getting on or off base - top marks to the traffic management, and indeed the whole event team. Really enjoyable and fantastic value for money day out.

Any moans? Yep - the people on here still bad mouthing the RAF. I don't know what more they could have done. They sent every single display team they had. I had resigned myself to the fact the BBMF weren't going to make it yet they still did. Can't help a plane going tech (not the only one - The Blades were reduced to a 3-ship). Whilst I agree the new display axis didn't work well that was not the Reds call.

Will definitely be returning.

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maltwoser
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by maltwoser »

Didn't he go back to Coningsby at high level though?


He may have been trying to get more information on the state of the ECS to help the groundcrew diagnose the fault. Recycle it, try different altitudes/attitudes/engine settings etc.

Georgeconna
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Georgeconna »

Way to go was watching it on the live stream, sat on the couch nice and Warm nursing a hangover and watching the Ireland game.

Only criticisms was no tour of the static on the live stream that I could see off so did not log as many serials as I could have if I did attend the show. I could pick off some stuff in the Background though. Saved me a few quid too!!
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paulb1973
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by paulb1973 »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:I watched online and thought Preoch and team put on the best show they could have, only let down by the weather and the RAF.

Mainly I watched to see what the revised display line was like for the Yellowjacks, and it was as embarrassingly distant as we thought it would be. The farce of being introduced as "The World's Best Display Team" (script copyright 1975), then displaying in another county. If a venue that's been safe enough for them for 40 years is no longer so, but is for every other act bar the Aldi Rafale, then do the decent thing and don't bother turning up. Airshows are bigger than the Red Arrows.

As for the Typhoon, st24 echoes what I texted Dan B - can't be that "broken" if you can fast pass and zoom climb in full afterburner. I wonder if the pilot was scared of keeping to the new box, or worried about the inbound B-1? A farce, again.

The Italians showed the RAF what the spectacle of display flying is all about, and it was a major coup to get the USAF heavies.

The RAF need to go away and take a long look in the mirror. How many more ludicrous changes of display axis or spurious cancellations will we see this season?

Have to agree on the commentary - Ruffle is awful and waffles away (at one point flicking through the programme and talking about what was on each page "nice picture of the Chief Of Air Staff, writing a letter") but was at least better than last year, which is faint praise, and Andy Pawsey's voice isn't to my tastes. Just not a broadcaster. Makes you appreciate Maffett in his prime, or just how good Ben Dunnell is now.



I remember someone else doing the show commentary at Cosford; Roger Hoefling until about 2003/4. I still miss his clear and precise tones - there isn't a show I attend in recent times that I can enjoy his measured delivery, sadly. Poor-old Roger seemed to fall out of favour in the early 2000's, perhaps his style was considered a bit old-fashioned. It does, as you say, show how good Sean Maffett is and the same for the 'new boy in town' Ben Dunnell. Post-Roger Hoefling I assumed it was a company called Airsound that provided the commentary which included Jonathan Ruffle behind the scenes and Sean Maffett - perhaps it still is, but I am not sure of the reason why Sean is no longer behind the mic [after 2015]. Has he left that partnership or is he giving Cosford a miss?

All things considered it might have been better just to have Andy Pawsey behind the microphone the majority of the time - I just can't settle with Ruffle's style. Although there were a least two points in the show - the arrival of the B-1B and the first pass of the B-52 which were crying out for some 'build up' to add to the drama.

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Sean Maffett announced his retirement in 2015. There were some embarrassing gaffes in 2015, including an off-colour "joke" about an accident at Alton Towers.

At his peak, Maffett was superb. Ben's already not far from that level, and comfortably the best of the current crop.

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hunterxf382
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by hunterxf382 »

Couldn't hear the majorty of any commentary to be fair, but then I rarely make a point of trying to listen. In fairness though - the arrival of the B-52 was rather a surprise for everyone, given that Sally-B was still trundling around the skies mid-display..... I have no idea how planned that was - but my lord it was a magical moment to behold! From a graceful reminder and poignant tribute to the past.... to the huge presence and stark reminder that despite it's age, the current heavy bomber in the family can still put on a spectacle. Both in the same piece of sky was memorable and if it caught out the commentary team, it didn't spoil the surprise for the majority of the crowd....
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alpha586
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by alpha586 »

What is it with some of the moronic self important idiots on here who seem to think that airshows must be Taylor made for their requirements?
I visited cosford this year, as I have for many years, this time I was joined by my cousin and partner who haven't been to an airshow for about 15 years. It was a joy to see someone so enamoured by the displays and get so excited by the reds despite the new display Line. I think we sometimes forget that not everyone has to spend the whole show with a camera welded to their face. Some people go to witness the spectacle and enjoy the displays. For once I put down the camera and enjoyed just watching the reds. Yes some of the gloss was k nocked off the display by the extra distance but didn't detract from the effort put in by the pilots. I didn't hear any of the families near me question the decision or moan they couldn't see them.
As for the slanderous comments about the typhoon display pilot I think it's disgusting that supposedly intelligent enthusiasts could possibly come to such a stupid conclusion!!
Overall a cracking show great variety and some great displays. Rich Goodwin was rilliant as ever the BBMF were flown beautifully and the aerosparx Grob was a very welcome surprise and was a joy to watch. The star of the show has to be the Tornado. Brilliant display and what a paint job!!
Massive well done to Peter and the team, see you all next year.!
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Ian G
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Ian G »

From what I heard on the radio, the B52 was asked to hold in the West. I was tuned to the display frequency and I did not hear ATC clear the B52 to run in for its flypast. What I did hear was ATC call the B17 to turn to avoid the incoming B52 though! They were visual so I could have missed something but I was as surprised as most to see the B52 turn left from the Shifnal direction and then run in! The Typhoon was cleared to enter from the south to start his display but declared his issue and did attempt to fix it. After 5 or so minutes he said the aircraft was u/s and ATC requested a flyby.

I thought the BBMF were absolutely outstanding, the highlight of the day for me above anything else. Their slick tailchase display was just a joy to watch and I don't think it could be bettered. The Swiss Team were impressive but drawn out - I did like the manoeuvre with 4 planes circling in the sky, that must take some concentration! USAF flybys and Tornado were of course great to see but the simplicity of the BBMF just stole the show for me. Perhaps that might have been because I was standing in a poppy field though . . . . :whistle:
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PirateTrickster
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by PirateTrickster »

I did like the manoeuvre with 4 planes circling in the sky


==> I enjoyed that too, haven't seen that routine so good to see something original, finished off nicely with one of the others coming up through the middle of the circle.

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Pringles
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

alpha586 wrote:What is it with some of the moronic self important idiots on here who seem to think that airshows must be tailor made for their requirements?

Nice - classy. You seem to be missing that this is an airshow review forum, where we as enthusiasts are obviously analyzing things from the enthusiasts' perspective for the most part? Yes one or two have been more unbridled in their criticisms (although they have somewhat of a reputation to maintain in that respect) but there's no need to respond to what were largely reasonable assessments of a farcical display axis change? :surrender:
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Jay
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Jay »

I enjoyed my first visit to Cosford airshow, the weather may not have been perfect, but it could have been a lot worse! At least the B-52 was visible (I saw last time it was at Cosford the cloud base was lower so nobody saw it) and it was nice that we got 2 passes, as I was expecting just one. So nice to see the only airworthy Whirlwind, that was one of the things that attracted me to Cosford initially. And exciting news that a Wessex might be flying again at some point, my first ever flight was in a Wessex, rather funny as the commentator also mentioned it was the first thing he flew in and that was also as a cadet, like me, however I'm sure he said it was his first non commercial flight, for me it was my first flight ever! I was not at all bothered that the Reds display was further away than planned, I have to admit display teams are not really my thing, not that I don't respect and admire the skills of the pilots, it's just that I'm an aircraft enthusiast, it's the aircraft I go to see and Hawks aren't particularly interesting aircraft, not to me anyway! having said that I was glad they showed up because I know a lot of people love the Red Arrows, for some it's the main attraction. Rather strange that one of the gate officials mentioned to me that they had actually called of the Red Arrow display!
I am also not to disappointed that the Typhoon was unable to do it's display, again mainly this is because I like seeing unusual and rare aircraft, and I've seen the Typhoon so many times I just don't get as excited about them anymore. I feel more disappointed for the pilot, who I'm sure was looking forward to doing the display and would have done so if he felt it was safe to go ahead. At least he gave us a treat of a flypast and vertical climb into the clouds, it was quite dramatic, and against the grey sky the afterburner plumes showed quite nicely, I think if it was clear blue sky my photos would not have had the moody and dramatic look they do. I have been informed that the Typhoon was the one that was painted up in camo colours, I never got to see that so that's really my only negative about the Typhoon.
The Italian Tornado was superb, I feel like Tornado's are becoming quite a rare sight at airshows now so really appreciated that display, I normally prefer seeing aircraft in standard colour schemes (I know that contradicts my last statement regarding the Typhoon!) but the paint job on the Tornado was pretty nice, certainly made it stand out! I think I heard the commentator mention it's the first time an Italian Tornado has been to a UK airshow, is this correct?
The most annoying this was the B-1, well no, not annoying, confusing really, was why so sneaky! it did its flypast with no announcement that it was coming in, i had my camera set up for the Apache and was still watching that, I only heard from someone in the crowd about the B-1 coming, looked to my left and saw her approaching rather fast, I didn't even have time to adjust my camera settings so just fired of a few snaps in the hope I might get 1 or 2 keepers, they were all naff really, a combination of poor light conditions, a grey aircraft against a grey sky and wrong camera settings but I'm still keeping them as they are my only photos of a B-1 in flight and I am very happy that I got an opportunity to see one in flight again, it's been quite a few years! I noticed it has some kind of pod thing on the forward fuselage, I don't remember seeing that before so guessing it's a fairly recent addition?
So was there ant reason why the flypast was unannounced, I don't believe that the control tower did not inform the commentator, was it purely done for the surprise element? It is a shame it could not have held for a few minutes before its run, as there was some nice clear sky approaching.
Rich Goodwins display was awesome, especially that low pass with the aircraft at a funny angle at the end that was a surprise, I did not think maneuvers like that at such low level would have been permitted, may be it wasn't as low as I thought but it certainly looked low and made for some nice photos!
I enjoyed the Anson as well, I saw it once at Farnborough but only had a pap camera then so didn't get any decent photos, now I have upgraded to my DSLR I got some much better ones!
Also nice to see the An-2 Colt it's the first time I have seen one displaying but it is also cool that it's the first aircraft i have seen at an airshow that i have had the pleasure of flying in myself! As it's based not to far away from me in Popham and people can get to fly in her if they join the AN-2 Club http://www.an2club.info/
I managed to squeeze in a visit to some of the museum but didn't see all the exhibits as i really wanted to get a good spot by the flightline, If I come again I will probably stay a few nights so I can have time to visit the museum.
There was lots of static aircraft to see as well, I did not spend much time looking at them but I've never seen so many Jags (and that's a good thing!) and the Harrier GR.1 in arctic camo was nice to see as well, the GR.1 is my favourite Harrier variant and I have a model of one in the same camo, it might even be the exact one, I have not checked yet.
Now onto the fun part, sorting through my photos, I took so many it could take some time!

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Pringles
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

Jay wrote:I think I heard the commentator mention it's the first time an Italian Tornado has been to a UK airshow, is this correct?

I don't recall him saying, and no that isn't correct. Maybe for Cosford it was, but the RSV Tornado was at RIAT as recently as 2014, and in 2015 was part of the TTTE flypast also at RIAT
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AFKAMC
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by AFKAMC »

Pringles wrote:
alpha586 wrote:What is it with some of the moronic self important idiots on here who seem to think that airshows must be tailor made for their requirements?

Nice - classy. You seem to be missing that this is an airshow review forum, where we as enthusiasts are obviously analyzing things from the enthusiasts' perspective for the most part? Yes one or two have been more unbridled in their criticisms (although they have somewhat of a reputation to maintain in that respect) but there's no need to respond to what were largely reasonable assessments of a farcical display axis change? :surrender:

alpha586 makes a valid point re. the uninformed speculation on the cancellation of the Typhoon display, though.

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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Jay »

Pringles wrote:
Jay wrote:I think I heard the commentator mention it's the first time an Italian Tornado has been to a UK airshow, is this correct?

I don't recall him saying, and no that isn't correct. Maybe for Cosford it was, but the RSV Tornado was at RIAT as recently as 2014, and in 2015 was part of the TTTE flypast also at RIAT

Ah i must have misheard or was day dreaming, probably the latter!

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Pringles
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

AFKAMC wrote:alpha586 makes a valid point re. the uninformed speculation on the cancellation of the Typhoon display, though.

He is right in that that was unwarranted, but is also a little excessive in his comment there too, however the bit I picked out was in reference to an entirely different matter.
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alpha586
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by alpha586 »

Pringles wrote:
alpha586 wrote:What is it with some of the moronic self important idiots on here who seem to think that airshows must be tailor made for their requirements?

Nice - classy. You seem to be missing that this is an airshow review forum, where we as enthusiasts are obviously analyzing things from the enthusiasts' perspective for the most part? Yes one or two have been more unbridled in their criticisms (although they have somewhat of a reputation to maintain in that respect) but there's no need to respond to what were largely reasonable assessments of a farcical display axis change? :surrender:


The quote you selected was more of a broad sweeping attack on those that seem to think the RAF has a vendetta against airshows and Cosford in particular. It was not necessarily aimed at those complaining about the axis change. Think of it more as a review of the so called enthusiasts that post on here but rarely attend said show!!
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by effects »

Some classic comments from speedbird2639 and DOH!, to suggest a highly trained combat pilot would be scared of busting a display line is utterly ridiculous. Comments from people who have NO experience in operating/flying fast jets really do embarrass themselves with ludicrous statements.
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by exocet_uk »

Pringles wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:I watched online and thought Preoch and team put on the best show they could have, only let down by the weather and the RAF.

The RAF need to go away and take a long look in the mirror. How many more ludicrous changes of display axis will we see this season?

Contradiction there, as has been pointed out it was the Cosford team that created and enforced this new axis, not the RAF - should have no bearing elsewhere either as a result

I'm lead to believe that the Reds issue has a good chance of manifesting itself at other locations to come this season. It is absolutely not the Cosford team that have decreed it.

Perhaps standby for further.

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

*cough* Fairford campsites *cough* :whistle:

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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Sundowner »

Just going to stick in my 2p worth, I thoroughly enjoyed the show, getting in and out was a breeze, the crowd line seemed pretty clear of obstructions both left and right of me and the statics etc were just about right for me.

The flying display was much more enjoyable to me this year mainly because I didn't have my face glued to the back of my camera like I normally do and I have to admit that actually watching these things made me realise just how good these pilots are ......... maybe more folks should try it sometime.
Again actually watching the Reds rather than trying to get that crossover shot or whatever made it a pleasure despite the distance.
Highlights....well all of the flying displays really, we all have our favorites but when you look at each act individually they were all superb including the single Typhoon pass, it was better than nowt at all.

All in all a thoroughly enjoyable day out, worth every penny, well done Peter and the team. :clap:

I suppose the only lows are coming on here and hearing the same old crap from the resident arm chair experts and trolls who just like the sound of there own voice.

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Pringles
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

exocet_uk wrote:
Pringles wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:I watched online and thought Preoch and team put on the best show they could have, only let down by the weather and the RAF.

The RAF need to go away and take a long look in the mirror. How many more ludicrous changes of display axis will we see this season?

Contradiction there, as has been pointed out it was the Cosford team that created and enforced this new axis, not the RAF - should have no bearing elsewhere either as a result

I'm lead to believe that the Reds issue has a good chance of manifesting itself at other locations to come this season. It is absolutely not the Cosford team that have decreed it.

Perhaps standby for further.

I based my comment on this announcement by the Airshow Chairmen, which I've repeated several times:
"For this year the FDD has had to formally defined the display area and propagate that to all of the participants at this year's show... The regulations absolutely preclude aerobatic flying over congested areas, so there's no getting away from the fact that Albrighton is a congested area and therefore aerobatic flying over that area is forbidden... So it was my decision, we engaged with the Red Arrows and the Typhoon, we couldn't fit them into our display area and we couldn't allow them to fly over Albrighton, and therefore we have shifted the display axis to protect that we can have full displays from those acts."

Seems that yes, it was the Cosford team that decreed it
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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Pringles wrote:
exocet_uk wrote:
Pringles wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:I watched online and thought Preoch and team put on the best show they could have, only let down by the weather and the RAF.

The RAF need to go away and take a long look in the mirror. How many more ludicrous changes of display axis will we see this season?

Contradiction there, as has been pointed out it was the Cosford team that created and enforced this new axis, not the RAF - should have no bearing elsewhere either as a result

I'm lead to believe that the Reds issue has a good chance of manifesting itself at other locations to come this season. It is absolutely not the Cosford team that have decreed it.

Perhaps standby for further.

I based my comment on this announcement by the Airshow Chairmen, which I've repeated several times:
"For this year the FDD has had to formally defined the display area and propagate that to all of the participants at this year's show... The regulations absolutely preclude aerobatic flying over congested areas, so there's no getting away from the fact that Albrighton is a congested area and therefore aerobatic flying over that area is forbidden... So it was my decision, we engaged with the Red Arrows and the Typhoon, we couldn't fit them into our display area and we couldn't allow them to fly over Albrighton, and therefore we have shifted the display axis to protect that we can have full displays from those acts."

Seems that yes, it was the Cosford team that decreed it


Wise up. Far less of a PR own goal if the RAF's airshow takes the blame, rather than the RAF's display teams. Don't swallow all that you read verbatim.

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Harvo266
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Harvo266 »

Dan, I'm still quite interested to hear why you think the Typhoon didn't display because the pilot was worried about the display box and/or put off by the B-1....I just can't understand where you are coming from.
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