RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Forum for information about the annual show at RAF Cosford
Post Reply
User avatar
Pringles
Posts: 1742
Joined: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 11:15 am

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

Chris G wrote: Also why just those two acts, it's total nonsense of the highest order.

This is the biggest issue for me - someone said tongue-in-cheek (I assume) earlier that they should draft in the PdF and Rafale in replacement, but apparently if that did happen it would be completely fine for those two displays to continue as normal? The lack of consistency is astounding from the decision-makers :clown:
If life gives you melons then you're probably dyslexic

User avatar
Tommy
UKAR Staff
Posts: 6001
Joined: Mon 14 Mar 2011, 11:39 pm

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Tommy »

Chris G wrote: Sorry but i don't think so.



Doesn't matter whether you "think so" or not. You have no idea whether you're entirely correct or entirely incorrect.

I get it. You (and I, Tbf) are frustrated. It's ridiculous, and you want someone to identify as being the one at fault. That doesn't give you an authority to jump to conclusions.

User avatar
Dan O'Hagan
Posts: 2293
Joined: Wed 13 Apr 2016, 6:05 pm

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Of course, Cosford could take a stand and cancel both acts... :whistle:

Timc
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat 13 Sep 2008, 6:32 pm
Location: Somewhere very close to Cosford!
Contact:

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Timc »

Pringles wrote:
Domvickery wrote:Why not just wait for an official response rather than making things up to make the organising team look bad.

You've got a fellow staffer a few posts previous saying the same thing, and they're not alone.
Timc wrote:Thinking along the same lines, this decision was possibly taken months ago, if not longer? If so, it does leave a somewhat bitter taste in the mouth. Impeccable timing with just over a week to go and with the vast bulk of tickets probably sold?



If you're going to quote me at least include the whole post in context and not just the bit that gets your point across!

I didn't suggest for one minute that the organisers knew inadvance or are to "blame" for this statement issued today. Hence the question marks!

Hopefully, other members of this forum understood my viewpoint but obviously not you! :smile:

User avatar
Pringles
Posts: 1742
Joined: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 11:15 am

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

I completely understand that they're probably very busy, but someone in the Cosford PR team needs to release a more detailed statements, there's a lot of frustration on several social media outlets that needs to be satisfied quickly - this should be a priority, because at the moment the lack of detail is extremely disappointing
If life gives you melons then you're probably dyslexic

User avatar
Pringles
Posts: 1742
Joined: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 11:15 am

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

Timc wrote:If you're going to quote me at least include the whole post in context and not just the bit that gets your point across!

I didn't suggest for one minute that the organisers knew inadvance or are to "blame" for this statement issued today. Hence the question marks!

Hopefully, other members of this forum understood my viewpoint but obviously not you! :smile:

I didn't mean to twist your words as I was under the impression that you were also suggesting that the organising team knew in advance "If so, it does leave a somewhat bitter taste in the mouth"
If life gives you melons then you're probably dyslexic

AngryAndyPandy
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu 23 Jun 2016, 1:51 pm

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by AngryAndyPandy »

I get we're all enthusiasts and that, but some of the comments on here from people who I presume to be 'mature' adults are beyond words. Yes it's frustrating but come on... I've been on this forum for years and it only gets worse as time goes on with some of the rediculous comments made when so little of the story is actually known. You ridicule other groups... :whistle: ...and behave like this yourselves.

Ciao! :hide:

User avatar
Seahornet
Posts: 901
Joined: Tue 02 Sep 2008, 1:55 pm
Location: Shropshire, Severn Valley

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Seahornet »

Can anyone point to the part of the statement which says the display axis will be more distant? My understanding is that those at the western end of the airfield will find the revised axis no more distant than the normal one; they'll just have to turn their chairs 90 deg to the right to see it! The biggest problem might be the mass migration of the the 'East end' crowd part way through the air display. Cue families and grannies being trampled in the stampede.... :shock:

Besides, the most of the RAFAT display part one arguably looks better from half a mile away.
And as the smart ship grew,
In stature, grace and hue,
In shadowy silent distance grew the iceberg too....

vulcan558
Posts: 1117
Joined: Sat 06 Oct 2012, 9:45 pm

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by vulcan558 »

If the new regulations have just come about this week, then you cannot blame the Reds or RAF.
News next week will be the Italians have cancelled.

User avatar
Pringles
Posts: 1742
Joined: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 11:15 am

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

Seahornet wrote:Can anyone point to the part of the statement which says the display axis will be more distant?

Logic dictates that anyone west of the most eastern point will be further away, and given the narrow depth of the 'display viewing area' along the runway, the so-called "mass migration" just won't be feasible at all
If life gives you melons then you're probably dyslexic

User avatar
Spotty_Jag
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri 18 Nov 2016, 8:19 pm

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Spotty_Jag »

-
Last edited by Spotty_Jag on Sat 21 Dec 2019, 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

vulcan558
Posts: 1117
Joined: Sat 06 Oct 2012, 9:45 pm

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by vulcan558 »

Would these be the same regulations used by Abingdon over a month ago.

User avatar
Pringles
Posts: 1742
Joined: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 11:15 am

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

The team have broken their silence:
We are working with both the RAF Red Arrows & RAF Typhoon Display Team to facilitate their requirements to perform full displays at the Air Show. These changes have only come to light in the past week or so and we are working hard to ensure the displays remain as visible and exciting as possible.


They found out two weeks ago they stated in their first comment - I'd like to know why this hasn't come to light sooner as I bought my ticket last week under apparently misguided influence
If life gives you melons then you're probably dyslexic

PeterR
Posts: 4842
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 12:43 pm

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by PeterR »

I understand all your frustrations, but believe me they're nowhere near close to how we've been feeling this week. This is a fast-ball that we have been dealing with, working with both RAFAT & Typhoon to try and fulfil their requirements. All I can ask at the moment is you bear with us. To alleviate some concerns, at this moment in time it is still the case that every other display item on the programme with use the 'normal' display axis which is parallel to the runway. Sometimes this are just out of our hands...

Cheers,
Peter :hide:
Operations Manager
RAF Cosford Air Show

User avatar
Pringles
Posts: 1742
Joined: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 11:15 am

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

PeterR wrote:To alleviate some concerns, at this moment in time it is still the case that every other display item on the programme with use the 'normal' display axis which is parallel to the runway

Appreciate the response, but are you able to clarify what the likelihood is of the display axis being altered for all of the displays? No chance of quite likely?
If life gives you melons then you're probably dyslexic

borismorris
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu 14 Apr 2016, 6:48 am
Location: North West Shropshire

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by borismorris »

As Peter said...bear with..

User avatar
Dan O'Hagan
Posts: 2293
Joined: Wed 13 Apr 2016, 6:05 pm

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Peter, just cancel them.

The show is bigger than two acts who aren't confident enough in their own ability to play by the same rules as everyone else... :whistle:

User avatar
Tommy
UKAR Staff
Posts: 6001
Joined: Mon 14 Mar 2011, 11:39 pm

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Tommy »

Pringles wrote:
PeterR wrote:To alleviate some concerns, at this moment in time it is still the case that every other display item on the programme with use the 'normal' display axis which is parallel to the runway

Appreciate the response, but are you able to clarify what the likelihood is of the display axis being altered for all of the displays? No chance of quite likely?


Jesus H man, I know you've been told before, but give it a rest! The Team have got an airshow to run and organise. It's also the weekend. If they are indeed having any time off, then allow them some peace before they tear their hair out.

You said "the organisers need to come clean about how much they knew and for how long" and then when they *do* state when the issue came about, you don't believe them.

I appreciate that you've paid money, we all have, but it doesn't mean you need to be forensic about everything Peter writes. Normal display axis is to be used for all other display item. What's so hard to understand?

Peter doesn't have to come on here and explain things, y'know. Try not to abuse his patience.

MrBean
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue 02 May 2017, 6:47 pm

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by MrBean »

Seems a strange dusplay axis. Favours naughty fields ;) That said they've done a great job and maybe you should all cut them some slack. It's beyond their control - enjoy the show first and foremost.

User avatar
Pringles
Posts: 1742
Joined: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 11:15 am

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

Tommy wrote:
Pringles wrote:
PeterR wrote:To alleviate some concerns, at this moment in time it is still the case that every other display item on the programme with use the 'normal' display axis which is parallel to the runway

Appreciate the response, but are you able to clarify what the likelihood is of the display axis being altered for all of the displays? No chance of quite likely?


You said "the organisers need to come clean about how much they knew and for how long" and then when they *do* state when the issue came about, you don't believe them.

I appreciate that you've paid money, we all have, but it doesn't mean you need to be forensic about everything Peter writes. Normal display axis is to be used for all other display item. What's so hard to understand?

Tommy, I made the request and indeed I appreciate Peter's response. I didn't say I didn't believe him, I was glad to see him say that only the Typhoon and RAFAT will be affected however I asked that follow-up question in the hope he would be able to either provide a rough estimate, or keep us up-to-date as to developments. Yes I have paid money for a ticket, but I and others also have to spend more money on other elements to get us there or sort accommodation in the area. It is those factors that were the motivation for my question as any significant changes to the other displays are wholly responsible for any further investment in the airshow weekend by myself and others.

I am well within my rights to ask that, as is Peter in choosing not to respond if he is unable/unwilling to.
If life gives you melons then you're probably dyslexic

User avatar
G-CVIX
Posts: 2019
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 7:39 pm
Location: SW/UK
Contact:

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by G-CVIX »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Peter, just cancel them.

The show is bigger than two acts who aren't confident enough in their own ability to play by the same rules as everyone else... :whistle:


100% agreed.

User avatar
Dan O'Hagan
Posts: 2293
Joined: Wed 13 Apr 2016, 6:05 pm

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

[tweet]https://twitter.com/astoncambridge/status/870322643995701248[/tweet]

Presumably it has to drive on a different road to everyone else? :lol:

User avatar
CJS
Posts: 7686
Joined: Thu 15 Jul 2010, 3:30 pm
Location: Hogwarts

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by CJS »

Imagine the response if they were cancelled. Yes of course no airshow is bigger than two acts, but can you honestly, hand on heart Dan, say that you'd take that decision? I mean actually. The RAF's support of their own show was - until recently one could argue - woeful: take this away and would it give them a reason to not bother even more in the future (= slow death of the show?).


I'll be interested to see if they still over fly the crowd at the start of any displays this year as in previous years. I know it's not an aerobatic mannouvre (spelling?) but still...

And to those taking a pop at Peter and his team, do grow up. It's quite obviously nothing to do with them is it?
With just the slightest bit of finesse, I might have made a little less mess.

User avatar
Tommy
UKAR Staff
Posts: 6001
Joined: Mon 14 Mar 2011, 11:39 pm

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Tommy »

Pringles wrote:Tommy, I made the request and indeed I appreciate Peter's response. I didn't say I didn't believe him, I was glad to see him say that only the Typhoon and RAFAT will be affected however I asked that follow-up question in the hope he would be able to either provide a rough estimate, or keep us up-to-date as to developments.


You've asked a considerable amount of follow-up questions, but it's also your rhetoric -

Pringles wrote:I'd like to know why this hasn't come to light sooner as I bought my ticket last week under apparently misguided influence


You've come close to alleging that they're deliberately mis-leading people for higher ticket sales. It's a bold claim to make, and people make it far too lightly. But imagine Peter reading that... is he really going to want to respond to your questioning when you're flirting with the accusation that they're conning people?

I know you don't mean it as black and white as I'm making out, but that's how it reads

Pringles wrote:Yes I have paid money for a ticket, but I and others also have to spend more money on other elements to get us there or sort accommodation in the area. It is those factors that were the motivation for my question as any significant changes to the other displays are wholly responsible for any further investment in the airshow weekend by myself and others.


The hobby isn't cheap, we all know that, and we all spend money on the show. And, of course, it's all a balance. I didn't do Duxford recently - too pricey for me and I couldn't justify it. Trust me, I get it. If you can't justify the show on the enjoyment/cost factor, of course you've got to bin it. Maybe just make the decision, instead of pontificating. The old "don't like it, just don't go" argument.

Pringles wrote:I am well within my rights to ask that, as is Peter in choosing not to respond if he is unable/unwilling to.


Yeah, but you can't criticise Peter for not responding to every one of your questions, is what I mean. And I never challenged "your rights", though I'd wager your rights don't extend to levelling of questioning you've put to Peter, and the responses he's given, throughout this thread. Not saying that as a criticism of you, it's just that you'd struggle to find a more open/responsive airshow online (not just on here) save, perhaps, Tom at DBH.

You're a reasonable chap, I've got no issue with you at all, we agree on a lot of other things, I just presume that Peter is probably more frustrated than the rest of us combined. The hard line adopted on here that they must "come clean" etc... just doesn't help things (nor does it make Pete particularly obliged to respond, I'd wager).

We're all frustrated. I completely understand. It's a ridiculous state of affairs that this is even being debated. I just don't want to see people vent at the airshow team, when they've clearly set out it was a fast-ball they've had to deal with.

Lucasjmet15
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed 15 Mar 2017, 5:53 pm

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Lucasjmet15 »

CJS wrote:And to those taking a pop at Peter and his team, do grow up. It's quite obviously nothing to do with them is it?



Well said, I totally agree. They're working non stop to provide a brilliant show and deserve lots of credit ! :up: :up:

Post Reply