RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

All you'll ever need to know about the UK's biggest airshow
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spellow3010
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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by spellow3010 »

B-52, B-1 and B-17 at showground centre anyone?

Sure I heard something about that being a thing in 2022... hopefully.

edhunter
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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by edhunter »

Does anyone know if the RAF are going to have a texan 2 display to replace the outgoing tucano display?

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harkins
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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by harkins »

edhunter wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021, 4:00 pm
Does anyone know if the RAF are going to have a texan 2 display to replace the outgoing tucano display?
I don't, but I thought that as they are privately owned/rented whatever it is, plus there only being six available, the answer is most likely no. Isn't there a similar situation that explains why there has not been a Hawk T.2 solo display? (I suppose we did get that underwhelming pairs thing somewhere over Worcester a few years back).

However, following two years without the Tattoo and the enthusiasts dream theme of 'Training the Next Generation Air Force', a Texan display might have felt quite important. Or will the next generation be trained entirely on simulators?

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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by iainpeden »

spellow3010 wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021, 9:35 am
B-52, B-1 and B-17 at showground centre anyone?

Sure I heard something about that being a thing in 2022... hopefully.
Add the B-24 and one (or two) B-29s to that.
(Mark Twain: There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics)

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spellow3010
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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by spellow3010 »

iainpeden wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021, 9:00 pm
spellow3010 wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021, 9:35 am
B-52, B-1 and B-17 at showground centre anyone?

Sure I heard something about that being a thing in 2022... hopefully.
Add the B-24 and one (or two) B-29s to that.
Ha ha, like it. I dared not hope too much for a B-29 for 2022. Maybe something for 2025, being 80th anniversary of the 1st nuclear bomb being deployed and ending of WW2.

Berf
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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by Berf »

harkins wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021, 5:00 pm
edhunter wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021, 4:00 pm
Does anyone know if the RAF are going to have a texan 2 display to replace the outgoing tucano display?
I don't, but I thought that as they are privately owned/rented whatever it is, plus there only being six available, the answer is most likely no. Isn't there a similar situation that explains why there has not been a Hawk T.2 solo display? (I suppose we did get that underwhelming pairs thing somewhere over Worcester a few years back).

However, following two years without the Tattoo and the enthusiasts dream theme of 'Training the Next Generation Air Force', a Texan display might have felt quite important. Or will the next generation be trained entirely on simulators?
From five days ago:

Nearly all RAF aircraft training will be carried out using computer simulations on the ground, with real-life flying saved for wars and demonstrations of power, the head of the air force has said.

Air Chief Marshal Sir Mike Wigston said he wanted a linked network of simulators at air and naval bases and barracks with “highly classified, ultra-realistic” synthetic environments.


Who am I to disagree with the ACM but IMHO there is no substitute for real flying in real conditions no matter how advanced the simulator. But on the other hand we are transitioning to drones and aircraft where there will be no pilots in the air so unfortunately in the medium longer term he is right.

frank
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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by frank »

Berf wrote:
Tue 20 Jul 2021, 8:32 am
harkins wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021, 5:00 pm
edhunter wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021, 4:00 pm
Does anyone know if the RAF are going to have a texan 2 display to replace the outgoing tucano display?
I don't, but I thought that as they are privately owned/rented whatever it is, plus there only being six available, the answer is most likely no. Isn't there a similar situation that explains why there has not been a Hawk T.2 solo display? (I suppose we did get that underwhelming pairs thing somewhere over Worcester a few years back).

However, following two years without the Tattoo and the enthusiasts dream theme of 'Training the Next Generation Air Force', a Texan display might have felt quite important. Or will the next generation be trained entirely on simulators?
From five days ago:

Nearly all RAF aircraft training will be carried out using computer simulations on the ground, with real-life flying saved for wars and demonstrations of power, the head of the air force has said.

Air Chief Marshal Sir Mike Wigston said he wanted a linked network of simulators at air and naval bases and barracks with “highly classified, ultra-realistic” synthetic environments.


Who am I to disagree with the ACM but IMHO there is no substitute for real flying in real conditions no matter how advanced the simulator. But on the other hand we are transitioning to drones and aircraft where there will be no pilots in the air so unfortunately in the medium longer term he is right.
It would be interesting to get a pilots perspective on this. Personally I just can’t believe that any simulator can surpass the real life experience of flying - g force, the sense of danger, adrenaline etc etc. You will always know you can’t kill yourself in a simulator. For sure a sim will give you the basics and currency but when you are asked to sit in a real aircraft and power down that runway in the pouring rain and howling wind, how can a sim have given you the confidence that you can deal with it.
Also thinking about the Navy, one of the key factors in choosing an F35 was the training needs of taking off and landings,
Must look up Wigstons CV and see what he has actually flown.

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Tommy
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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by Tommy »

Probably worth a separate tread in AvWaff to carry on discussing this, chaps.

(It’s an interesting discussion, so do please feel free to start a thread there & crack on! Just wary of going down a rabbit hole that, whilst interesting, might not be strictly relevant to RIAT)

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iainpeden
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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by iainpeden »

spellow3010 wrote:
Tue 20 Jul 2021, 8:23 am
iainpeden wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021, 9:00 pm
spellow3010 wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021, 9:35 am
B-52, B-1 and B-17 at showground centre anyone?

Sure I heard something about that being a thing in 2022... hopefully.
Add the B-24 and one (or two) B-29s to that.
Ha ha, like it. I dared not hope too much for a B-29 for 2022. Maybe something for 2025, being 80th anniversary of the 1st nuclear bomb being deployed and ending of WW2.
Now that would send the woke generation into meltdown.
(Mark Twain: There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics)

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capercaillie
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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by capercaillie »

iainpeden wrote:
Wed 21 Jul 2021, 12:10 pm
spellow3010 wrote:
Tue 20 Jul 2021, 8:23 am
iainpeden wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021, 9:00 pm
spellow3010 wrote:
Mon 19 Jul 2021, 9:35 am
B-52, B-1 and B-17 at showground centre anyone?

Sure I heard something about that being a thing in 2022... hopefully.
Add the B-24 and one (or two) B-29s to that.
Ha ha, like it. I dared not hope too much for a B-29 for 2022. Maybe something for 2025, being 80th anniversary of the 1st nuclear bomb being deployed and ending of WW2.
Now that would send the woke generation into meltdown.
Not sure about that but having built up a regular attendance from a nation bringing types never seen before in the UK, not too sure how they may feel about it being celebrated?
"The surrogate voice of st24"

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spellow3010
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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by spellow3010 »

I'm not sure anyone has actually said anything about celebrating to be fair. As I am sure you already appreciate, we don't 'celebrate' war on 11th November each year. Well, some knuckle draggers might and that may always be the case. We remember war and those that fall... Lest we forget, and all that.

Auschwitz isn't still there today as a place to visit to rub anyone's nose in it. Neither are the numerous war cemeteries across northern Europe. Our very own national arboretum.

Why do Germany attend RIAT so regularly (and very welcome) when we remember the Battle of Britain... D-day, or Victory in Europe day? Military personnel and civilians died.

We're supposedly all friends now. But yeah, maybe the dawn of the nuclear age, aviation's part to play within that and the fragile peace it has brought to our civilisation ever since is 'too much too soon' for some.

The role of the B-29 in delivering what was a revolutionary and horrific weapon is contextual in the aviation story. It shouldn't be 'cancelled.' It should be remembered. Always. Way more relevant in history I suspect than a P-1, C-2 and all the others that we would really like to see again, and other Japanese treasures on debut.

I highly doubt that our very welcome Japanese FRIAT attendees would boycott RIAT or refuse to photograph a B-29. It didn't stop them at Miramar in 2019. Likewise, it wouldn't stop me photographing railway ephemera in Burma that might have been built under dubious moral conditions. Forgive, move on, but never forget.

It is debateable whether RIAT is the right place to remember 'the bomb.' But then again, not every RIAT theme is a 'celebration.' 1995 says hello. Peace be with you.

Andyph
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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by Andyph »

edhunter wrote:
Sat 17 Jul 2021, 5:05 pm
From the virtual air tattoo here is a list of aircraft and air arms hoping to attend RIAT 2022;
Flying
Patrioulle de France
Austrian typhoon display
Danish f-16 display
Croatian display team
Chilean display team
Bbmf
Soloturk
Rafale display team
A-10 demo team
Aac apache demo team
Ukrainian air force su-24 fencer
Spanish f-18
Reds

Static
Army historic flight
New Zealand P-3/P-8
Singapore uav
Australian wedgetail
Turkish phantoms
Pakistan c-130
Jasdf c-2
German Richtofen typhoon
0v-10 bronco
Royal Australian navy
Italian Merlin

If only half of these come off, for me we are in for a great show.
RNZAF P-8? Not sure when they will get the first one but seems unlikey they will be at a stage to come to Fairford.

Might make it on a delivery flight maybe?

KevinNutt17779
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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by KevinNutt17779 »

Would be very happy if the Su-24 made it to the show , especially if it was a flying display.
Would I be right in thinking this would potentially be a first UK flying display?.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by boff180 »

Andyph wrote:
Sat 24 Jul 2021, 1:43 am
RNZAF P-8? Not sure when they will get the first one but seems unlikey they will be at a stage to come to Fairford.

Might make it on a delivery flight maybe?
It's going to be a Farnborough year, Boeing have a habit of using pre-delivery aircraft for display. If they send a P-8 to Farnborough (which is likely) there is a good chance it will be an Internationally marked example.
Would be very happy if the Su-24 made it to the show , especially if it was a flying display.
Would I be right in thinking this would potentially be a first UK flying display?.
I believe it would be a complete type debut, none have ever appeared in the UK either flying or static.

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Seamus
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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by Seamus »

A Russian Fencer appeared on static display at Farnborough in 1992
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boff180
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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by boff180 »

Fair enough :-)

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capercaillie
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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by capercaillie »

Seamus wrote:
Sat 24 Jul 2021, 1:37 pm
A Russian Fencer appeared on static display at Farnborough in 1992
And at Leuchars show on the way home.
"The surrogate voice of st24"

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Spotty_Jag
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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by Spotty_Jag »

According to the New Zealand MOD website their first Poseidon is due for delivery in 2023. Also, in their video they say they are ​"excited by the prospect of showcasing our aircraft in the future"... next year is not mentioned.

Having rewatched the Virtual Air Tattoo on YouTube, a lot of the aircraft mentioned in the post above make no mention of participating in RIAT 2022 in their video. For those that do, I'm sure the crews would love to and are being polite in their videos but it's my now means likely so let's just be thankful for whatever we get at Fairford next summer!

MiG_Eater
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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by MiG_Eater »

I'm still in the "i'm just praying for an airshow" camp, so yes - totally agree with you Spotty_Jag.

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Hog
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Re: RIAT 2022 Participation and Discussion chat

Post by Hog »

I am really hoping the A-10 team can display as they missed the last one and we get to see a B-1 high speed pass, highly unlikely but you never know. As for the rest after no show for 2 years I will be happy seeing anything that fast and noisy. Taking my Son next year he has never been before will love the excitement of it all. Roll on July 22.