RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

[iainpeden]

@RIAT Air Ops
I can't help but notice a lot of your responses are either short or very rude. I feel that there should be a level of respect given to those who pay hundreds of pounds to attend The World's "Biggest" and most "Exciting" Airshow no ?

I left a review (my opinion) on the Official Facebook page which then resulted in me being blocked from the page. Why was this ? Because my view was not to the standard of your own ?

The lack of static aircraft the lack of Helicopters and not to mention the lack of Atmosphere that once used to be at RIAT has now gone and it seemed like Ascot minus the horses. Marquees and pavilions blocking the view of the runway and the view of paying customers. Shuttle buses not running smoothly as we had to get of one but then onto another just to get to the exit. You're official campsite advertising a bar and special surprises which never came to reality. 6 toilets for over a hundred campers. Lunch and breakfast ? A burger van which was out of chips.

I could go on with the disaster of what was this year's RIAT. But I'm sure I'm only going to get a condisending, rude response.

Regards

Mark

Mark
My only link with the RIAT operation is having attended every one since 1977 and having been a member of the friends since 1983. I’m afraid your post certainly gets a short, condescending answer from me – a single word in fact which isn’t far off the word used for a neutered male bovine.

How anyone can call 2016 a disastrous show is beyond me, great flying with the highest tech fighters in the world, visitors from the other side of the globe and, to put the icing on the cake, 2 Phantoms.

RIAT Air Ops reply’s are always clear, concise and informed. If they are, to you condescending, it’s purely because the poor bloke has to be fed up answering the same questions time and again about the flares situation which is out of his control and is probably just as frustrating to the organising team as the rest of us.

I’m assuming that you will not be wasting your time returning next year.

[AFC]

@RIAT Air Ops

the lack of Helicopters

Even one helicopter is too much IMO, they just don't suit RIAT, the flightline is too large. Great at smaller venues. But at RIAT, no.
The less helicopters in the flying display the better.
They are simply toilet breaks.
I want more fast jets and heavies.

[CJS]

Must be a day for nonsense posts, or maybe sophisticated trolling?

The Chinook couldn't be more suited to RIAT if it tried. Even the smaller helicopters, when flown well - such as the Bo-105, can be excellent additions to the flying.

As for yet more anti RJF comments, please do your homework before wholesale criticism.

[AFC]

Must be a day for nonsense posts, or maybe sophisticated trolling?

The Chinook couldn't be more suited to RIAT if it tried. Even the smaller helicopters, when flown well - such as the Bo-105, can be excellent additions to the flying.

As for yet more anti RJF comments, please do your homework before wholesale criticism.

Alright Chinook is alright, and as long as the apache has pyros then its good. Smaller helicopters just get lost at RIAT.
If they were at a smaller venue (Duxford, Old warden or any venue along them lines, then it would be fine) or if they were a pairs display (one at either end of the runway) they would be fine, but otherwise they just don't do it for me. I also hate how low a shutter speed I have to go to get any kind of blur on the rotor blades (the main reason why I hate helicopters tbh )

[Luke28]

Thats probably because your photography skills aren't upto scratch. Work on that.

[Pringles]

Must be a day for nonsense posts, or maybe sophisticated trolling?

The Chinook couldn't be more suited to RIAT if it tried. Even the smaller helicopters, when flown well - such as the Bo-105, can be excellent additions to the flying.

As for yet more anti RJF comments, please do your homework before wholesale criticism.

Alright Chinook is alright, and as long as the apache has pyros then its good. Smaller helicopters just get lost at RIAT.
If they were at a smaller venue (Duxford, Old warden or any venue along them lines, then it would be fine) or if they were a pairs display (one at either end of the runway) they would be fine, but otherwise they just don't do it for me.

I agree, Osprey and Chinook aside, most helicopters are ill suited to Fairford's 2 mile runway. Even the RNlAF and AAC Apaches get lost, the solo Apache this year would've had much less impact following last year's brilliant duo routine

[AFC]

Thats probably because your photography skills aren't upto scratch. Work on that.

I'm perfectly capable of doing it (1/80th handheld), just I prefer not to.
I've also shot at lower speeds taking photos of cars at Snetterton, so don't make assumptions

Also try hand holding a 600mm lens at 1/80th and then come back to me about my 'lack of skills' (the shot posted was taken last year with my 70-300 L lens, only because I haven't got round to sorting out my RIAT shots yet).



Edit: Looking at your flickr Luke, you've got some awfully blurry shots of the Osprey from RIAT shot at 1/80th, even at 1/100th or 1/320th they aren't much better ...... Heres a prime example:
USAF MV-22, 0060, RIAT 2015. by Luke, on Flickr ~ 1/320th 420mm

So maybe it isn't me, but rather you that needs to work on their photography skills?

[Luke28]

I'm not the one moaning about having too shoot them.

Thanks for the promotion

[AFC]

I'm not the one moaning about having too shoot them.

Thanks for the promotion

But you are the one saying that my photography skills are lacking with no evidence to back up your point.
All I said is I don't find helicopters interesting and I would prefer to not have to go down to speeds below 1/100th..... not moaning about having to shoot them, just simply saying I'd rather they didn't appear at RIAT.

[Gonzo230]

@RIAT Air Ops
I can't help but notice a lot of your responses are either short or very rude. I feel that there should be a level of respect given to those who pay hundreds of pounds to attend The World's "Biggest" and most "Exciting" Airshow no ?

I left a review (my opinion) on the Official Facebook page which then resulted in me being blocked from the page. Why was this ? Because my view was not to the standard of your own ?

The lack of static aircraft the lack of Helicopters and not to mention the lack of Atmosphere that once used to be at RIAT has now gone and it seemed like Ascot minus the horses. Marquees and pavilions blocking the view of the runway and the view of paying customers. Shuttle buses not running smoothly as we had to get of one but then onto another just to get to the exit. You're official campsite advertising a bar and special surprises which never came to reality. 6 toilets for over a hundred campers. Lunch and breakfast ? A burger van which was out of chips.

I could go on with the disaster of what was this year's RIAT. But I'm sure I'm only going to get a condisending, rude response.

Regards

Mark

Mark,

When will tickets for the airshow that you're organising go on sale?

Sounds like it will be great, 100% accessible crowd line, loads of atmosphere, reliable buses, Eden-like campsites, unlimited chips, loads of static and of course almost infinite helicopters.

Seriously though, you know the history of RIAT? Set up by Tim and Paul and a few other people they knew. Why not try and organise your own?

[Mul]

@RIAT Air Ops
I can't help but notice a lot of your responses are either short or very rude. I feel that there should be a level of respect given to those who pay hundreds of pounds to attend The World's "Biggest" and most "Exciting" Airshow no ?

I left a review (my opinion) on the Official Facebook page which then resulted in me being blocked from the page. Why was this ? Because my view was not to the standard of your own ?

The lack of static aircraft the lack of Helicopters and not to mention the lack of Atmosphere that once used to be at RIAT has now gone and it seemed like Ascot minus the horses. Marquees and pavilions blocking the view of the runway and the view of paying customers. Shuttle buses not running smoothly as we had to get of one but then onto another just to get to the exit. You're official campsite advertising a bar and special surprises which never came to reality. 6 toilets for over a hundred campers. Lunch and breakfast ? A burger van which was out of chips.

I could go on with the disaster of what was this year's RIAT. But I'm sure I'm only going to get a condisending, rude response.

Regards

Mark

Mark,

When will tickets for the airshow that you're organising go on sale?

Sounds like it will be great, 100% accessible crowd line, loads of atmosphere, reliable buses, Eden-like campsites, unlimited chips, loads of static and of course almost infinite helicopters.

Seriously though, you know the history of RIAT? Set up by Tim and Paul and a few other people they knew. Why not try and organise your own?

Not trying to defend Mark, but the idea that one can't criticise an event he has paid money for because he did not organise an event himself is silly. Surely the fact he has paid entitles him to an opinion??

[Gonzo230]

Not trying to defend Mark, but the idea that one can't criticise an event he has paid money for because he did not organise an event himself is silly. Surely the fact he has paid entitles him to an opinion??

Yes, of course. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I did not say otherwise.

I feel that the use of words such as 'disaster', the fact that hospitality enclosures more than pay their own way (That's why they're there!), and holding RIAT Air Ops, or anyone in RIAT, responsible for chip stock levels in any particular catering outlet, perhaps shows a lack of understanding.

[Pringles]

Yes, of course. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I did not say otherwise.

I feel that the use of words such as 'disaster', the fact that hospitality enclosures more than pay their own way (That's why they're there!), and holding RIAT Air Ops, or anyone in RIAT, responsible for chip stock levels in any particular catering outlet, perhaps shows a lack of understanding.

The enclosures aren't an option for some spectators like myself, so to be penned into smaller and smaller areas every year is a sure way to antagonise the general public. Just because they "pay their way" doesn't make it easy for us to swallow. The "chip stock levels" were the responsibility of the official RIAT Camp Site, if they didn't order adequate amounts of food when it's promised in their advertisement is something that should be drawn attention to to allow RIAT to improve the experience for next year.

[Luke28]

You know its been a pretty good show when people are moaning about chip stock levels.

[parsley]

@RIAT Air Ops
I can't help but notice a lot of your responses are either short or very rude. I feel that there should be a level of respect given to those who pay hundreds of pounds to attend The World's "Biggest" and most "Exciting" Airshow no ?

I left a review (my opinion) on the Official Facebook page which then resulted in me being blocked from the page. Why was this ? Because my view was not to the standard of your own ?

The lack of static aircraft the lack of Helicopters and not to mention the lack of Atmosphere that once used to be at RIAT has now gone and it seemed like Ascot minus the horses. Marquees and pavilions blocking the view of the runway and the view of paying customers. Shuttle buses not running smoothly as we had to get of one but then onto another just to get to the exit. You're official campsite advertising a bar and special surprises which never came to reality. 6 toilets for over a hundred campers. Lunch and breakfast ? A burger van which was out of chips.

I could go on with the disaster of what was this year's RIAT. But I'm sure I'm only going to get a condisending, rude response.

Regards

Mark

Mark

I'm intrigued to know what you would suggest for increasing the static aircraft...as you probably know invitations to attend are sent by the organisers every year to a myriad of armed forces worldwide....if they say they are not attending what do you suggest ?...in addition there have obviously been remarks about aircraft parked on the flying side (i.e. the USMC KC130) that was not active on the two weekend days) that could have potentially been in the static however the USMC were approached by RIAT re this matter but declined..if the operator declines what do you suggest RIAT do ?

[MarkEstus]

I paid £40 a night to stay at there Official camp site I think I have the right to complain when certain promises have not been met. With regards to the chips comment it was just an example which on my part could have been explained much better. I do appreciate the legacy that Tim and his friend built up to create this Air Show and I have been a big supporter and would hand out leaflets and posters every year to show my appreciation however sadly this year things were not the same as years before something was missing and perhaps this is due to the fact Tim has left ? The fact I have been blocked from the Official Facebook page is a shock when I was just leaving a review on My own experience this year. The reason I am saying all of this is because I Don't want to see the legacy ruined or the once great Air Show have to be abandoned because there are what I feel damaging choices being made towards the future of the event.

Regards

Mark

[boff180]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However the general consensus seems to be that this years show was the best in years.....

Guys, this is a RIAT 2017 thread, not a nit-pick about RIAT 2016 thread, take it to the right one please.

[aviodromefriend]

First thing we need to know about 2017 is if there will be aircraft that will fly on Friday only like this year or in 2014. It would help to make travel arrangements and booking time off from work.

[RIAT Air Ops]

@RIAT Air Ops
I can't help but notice a lot of your responses are either short or very rude. I feel that there should be a level of respect given to those who pay hundreds of pounds to attend The World's "Biggest" and most "Exciting" Airshow no ?

I left a review (my opinion) on the Official Facebook page which then resulted in me being blocked from the page. Why was this ? Because my view was not to the standard of your own ?

The lack of static aircraft the lack of Helicopters and not to mention the lack of Atmosphere that once used to be at RIAT has now gone and it seemed like Ascot minus the horses. Marquees and pavilions blocking the view of the runway and the view of paying customers. Shuttle buses not running smoothly as we had to get of one but then onto another just to get to the exit. You're official campsite advertising a bar and special surprises which never came to reality. 6 toilets for over a hundred campers. Lunch and breakfast ? A burger van which was out of chips.

I could go on with the disaster of what was this year's RIAT. But I'm sure I'm only going to get a condisending, rude response.

Regards

Mark

Mark,

I try to very quickly offer an explanation of why we are where we are with certain (aviation) aspects that attract criticism/questions from visitors. If I'm not able to offer that view in a way that meets your expectations then I apologise but I just don't have the time to write every response in perfect prose. Many of the UKAR membership know me and I am not 'short' or 'very rude'. I do however reserve the right to tell it as it is in the interests of being as transparent as I can be when answering concerns/questions on this forum. Many appreciate that as opposed to silence and lets be clear with regard to 'level of respect'. Having been there myself and paid my dues I have every respect and empathy with those who support us year in, year out. If I didn't care I wouldn't be taking the time to offer a view on many aspects of the event.

With regard to opinion, I have no problem with yours or anyones view, please go ahead but please let me be clear with one of your points - I have no sway over who or what is posted on the FB page.

Regards as always

Tom

[MarkEstus]

Thanks for the kind response Tom. I have emailed RIAT and will take my complaint to the Appropriate people.

[WG655]

The less helicopters in the flying display the better.

Thankfully the vast majority of visitors to the show appreciate a varied flying display and have some understanding of the huge commitment involved in ferrying significantly slower helicopters across Europe to participate. RIAT is not a noise fest, and has always relied on (welcome) rotary-wing participation throughout its history. Remind me where else in the UK are the USAF CV-22B, Dutch Apache and German Army Bo-105 flying displays this year?

I want more fast jets and heavies.

This comes across as rather ungrateful if I'm brutally honest.

Fast Jets - Unless you had your back to the crowdline, you must have been aware that 2016 was fairly unique in just how many fast jet acts it was able to conjure up - I make it 16 solo fast jets performing throughout the day, an average of one every 30mins. Considering two of the US's star jets and virtually every European fast jet demo was in attendance, I fail to see how a) this was not a healthy amount and b) you would suggest this is improved? I'm curious to know which other fast jets you would have wanted to see flying?

Heavies - The showground had a healthy amount of heavies throughout, of which many were open for viewing throughout the weekend (as well as the A400M in the flying display). I'm sure the questions were asked with air arms however it is wrong to expect crews of large aircraft to fly a long way to get to the show and then sit north side all weekend only to perform a single flypast. That is about all they would be allowed to do unless they had a pre-rehearsed display routine (an expensive exercise given intense operational taskings which is why there are few heavy displays worldwide). If you're referring to locally-based RAF heavies, they're pretty busy operationally right now and as in the case of the Voyager, C-130 and Atlas which were present I certainly preferred being able to get a good look at them on the ground rather than a simple 'blink and you'll miss it' flypast each day with the resultant empty areas in the static display.

I'm sure the team would appreciate constructive criticism and thought-out suggestions rather than simply asking for a 'better' show next year than in 2016.

[AFC]

The less helicopters in the flying display the better.

Thankfully the vast majority of visitors to the show appreciate a varied flying display and have some understanding of the huge commitment involved in ferrying significantly slower helicopters across Europe to participate. RIAT is not a noise fest, and has always relied on (welcome) rotary-wing participation throughout its history. Remind me where else in the UK are the USAF CV-22B, Dutch Apache and German Army Bo-105 flying displays this year?

I want more fast jets and heavies.

This comes across as rather ungrateful if I'm brutally honest.

Fast Jets - Unless you had your back to the crowdline, you must have been aware that 2016 was fairly unique in just how many fast jet acts it was able to conjure up - I make it 16 solo fast jets performing throughout the day, an average of one every 30mins. Considering two of the US's star jets and virtually every European fast jet demo was in attendance, I fail to see how a) this was not a healthy amount and b) you would suggest this is improved? I'm curious to know which other fast jets you would have wanted to see flying?

Heavies - The showground had a healthy amount of heavies throughout, of which many were open for viewing throughout the weekend (as well as the A400M in the flying display). I'm sure the questions were asked with air arms however it is wrong to expect crews of large aircraft to fly a long way to get to the show and then sit north side all weekend only to perform a single flypast. That is about all they would be allowed to do unless they had a pre-rehearsed display routine (an expensive exercise given intense operational taskings which is why there are few heavy displays worldwide). If you're referring to locally-based RAF heavies, they're pretty busy operationally right now and as in the case of the Voyager, C-130 and Atlas which were present I certainly preferred being able to get a good look at them on the ground rather than a simple 'blink and you'll miss it' flypast each day with the resultant empty areas in the static display.

I don't consider the CV-22 a helicopter, in fact I love seeing the Osprey flying.

And you misinterpreted what I said
I want more heavies in the flying (I don't really care about statics, I want to see aircraft in the sky), and I meant I want more fast jets than helicopters.
We had a superb amount of fast jets this year, my ears were still ringing with the sound of jet engines after I got home on Sunday .
Sorry I should have made that clearer to begin with

[matty82]

I would expect to see at least a CV-22, F-15, and KC-135 in the flying display next year... However the F-35B will not be at RIAT again until 2018 according to Hugh Nichols. The F-35A on the other hand is a different matter

[Airshowhammer]

I would expect to see at least a CV-22, F-15, and KC-135 in the flying display next year... However the F-35B will not be at RIAT again until 2018 according to Hugh Nichols. The F-35A on the other hand is a different matter

And if the F35A does turn up, we'll still have people on facebook saying 'why didn't it hover awful, boo'

[Airshowhammer]

As its the USAF's big bash, i really hope the F15E demo makes a return to the circuit!