Update Today?

All you'll ever need to know about the UK's biggest airshow
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Eizo
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Re: Update Today?

Post by Eizo »

AdamN wrote:
Eizo wrote:And it is really ruining display for the Dutch F-16 for example.


No it's not.

By that logic, you could stick some flares on the TBM700 and everyone would love it. :question:


The flare drop pic is THE famous pic of the KLU F-16, nothing else. Check the magazines if you doubt. TBM700 does not have flares, so what sense does your comparison have? :question:

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AdamN
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Re: Update Today?

Post by AdamN »

Eizo wrote:
AdamN wrote:
Eizo wrote:And it is really ruining display for the Dutch F-16 for example.


No it's not.

By that logic, you could stick some flares on the TBM700 and everyone would love it. :question:


The flare drop pic is THE famous pic of the KLU F-16, nothing else. Check the magazines if you doubt. TBM700 does not have flares, so what sense does your comparison have? :question:


You've said that the display is ruined by the lack of flares (photographs have nothing to do with it, a display is designed to be watched), so you're basically saying that the display is crap without them. Ignoring the technical specs of a small French transport aircraft, I'm saying that if it's only flares that make the display any good, then a boring display (such as the TBM 700) can be transformed into a great one, simply by adding a few flares into it.

People really are making too much of a big deal about the lack of flares at UK shows. Tom has already given some sound reasons as to why they're not used, so I don't see why people can't accept that. I've never come away from a show, disappointed because a couple of aircraft didn't chuck out a couple of flares once or twice.

But of course, we've always got to find something to moan about, haven't we? If the Mirage F1s don't give us a topside pass, afterburners lit and 50ft away from us at the western end on the Monday, I'll be absolutely outraged! :mad: :mad: :handbag:

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Chrisse
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Re: Update Today?

Post by Chrisse »

AdamN wrote:By that logic, you could stick some flares on the TBM700 and everyone would love it. :question:


I love it anyway :tongue:

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raiford
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Re: Update Today?

Post by raiford »

we have been through this before when it was announced flares were banned, pointless waste of time going on about it all over again. :roll:

Liveforriat
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Re: Update Today?

Post by Liveforriat »

TOMG - Thanks for the explanation , does make a lot of sense to be honest and I for one arent really too bothered about the no flares rule.

Just because another country decides its safe to use flares doesnot make it so, if a flare is released at height then of course the wind can carry that flare a fair distance and cause it to fall on an area populated by spectators it has nothing to do with poor organisation and situation of flight lines. If an accident has occured once or a number of times, which it seems it has, then something has to be done to prevent that accident happening again with perhaps worse consequences ,and in this case it has been deemed that no flares is the only real way to do this, seems quite simple logic to me. If flares set fire to things 3 times in 5 years then in the sixth years a person was killed by one then can you imagine the uproar when it cam out about all the previous near misses!!
Was once Liveforriat2007 but that wasnt a great year so Ive decided to simply live for RIAT period.

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Gooze
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Re: Update Today?

Post by Gooze »

Seeing as the Last update of RIAT 2009 has occured...Can the mods now close this thread?

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Baghdaddy
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Re: Update Today?

Post by Baghdaddy »

Eizo wrote:
RIAT has no position to become exception to the rule, the real "problem" is the red tape ruining such events with their funny regulations. And it is really ruining display for the Dutch F-16 for example. In my point of view the restrictions within UK are nothing than a lame excuse for the mistakes made by others! Sorry, but as I said above: If a Hind can hit a food stall during it's display, this is RIAT's problem and it's display areas! Airpower09 at Zeltweg AFB also had to fulfill NATO-Restrictions because of the participating NATO aircrafts. This resulted in the effect that spotters had to leave fenced (!) areas on Thursday because it was "too near to the taxiway". Flares were allowed in Zeltweg, also the C-27 was allowed to do a role. No problem at all with NATO-regulations... If Fairford has not enough areas big enough it is a excuse all will understand. But only saying: It hit a food stall and that is why it is evil it is not the truth!



Now ask yourself this, where do you see most military aircraft drop flares during operations and trials? Over the airfield or over the range?? And if it's over the range and not the airfield ask yourself why?

As Tom has said there are numerous restrictions governing this and handling aircraft on the ground which are armed takes the fun out of the job. I was one of the guys who had to tow aircraft around the airfield, at last year's RIAT, away from the other aircraft because they were found to be armed. After spending half an hour parking them nice and neatly in a line of other aircraft using a tape measure and a compass to be then told to move them and leave a ruddy great gap in the static line up was just smashing.

RIAT is one of the safest events you can attend which involve large chunks of metal full of fuel flying at silly speeds. This is due to stringent rules and regs so yes it can make its own rules if it wants. If RIAT is classed as restrictive then so be it. In aviation the most restrictive rules are normally the safest and thus the best so comparing us to other players in the business who are happy to have the public exposed to armed aircraft is like comparing apples with oranges, i.e. pointless.

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tomw94
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Re: Update Today?

Post by tomw94 »

why is B-52 only down as 1xflyover???(on that link on page 30 or 31) is it not displaying??

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Monty
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Re: Update Today?

Post by Monty »

tomw94 wrote:why is B-52 only down as 1xflyover???(on that link on page 30 or 31) is it not displaying??

That is the display :grin:
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Kieran
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Re: Update Today?

Post by Kieran »

Monty wrote:
tomw94 wrote:why is B-52 only down as 1xflyover???(on that link on page 30 or 31) is it not displaying??

That is the display :grin:


Yep :grin: Take off, one flyby (two if we're lucky), land. :smile:

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chill51
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Re: Update Today?

Post by chill51 »

Kieran wrote:
Monty wrote:
tomw94 wrote:why is B-52 only down as 1xflyover???(on that link on page 30 or 31) is it not displaying??

That is the display :grin:


Yep :grin: Take off, one flyby (two if we're lucky), land. :smile:


Don,t forget the jolley out to look at stone henge which they do every year :grin: :grin:

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zigzag
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Re: Update Today?

Post by zigzag »

F18 display.

Ill go for the Spaniards if their fast past is as close to "the barrier" as it was a Volkel. :biggrin:
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MartinNeedham
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Re: Update Today?

Post by MartinNeedham »

Random wrote:Errrm not a wind up, there was a large thread about it on the old board a couple of years back now. I agree, it's ridiculous!


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A380FWWOW
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Re: Update Today?

Post by A380FWWOW »

What no real update today.
Im on text service and you know who (he's in Dachau, Germany) wants to know what has changed! :grin:
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Ben H
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Re: Update Today?

Post by Ben H »

Tell him the B1 was comfirmed flying, and the Tutor has cancelled. Wait for the reply then tell him a surprise late addition from DBH is the MiG-29 OVT from 2006. :grin:

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A380FWWOW
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Re: Update Today?

Post by A380FWWOW »

Random wrote:Tell him the B1 was comfirmed flying, and the Tutor has cancelled. Wait for the reply then tell him a surprise late addition from DBH is the MiG-29 OVT from 2006. :grin:


Sorry, cant be that unfair, I sent him my response by text in German anyway! lol, that will take him a while to work out anyway.
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Red Dragon
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Re: Update Today?

Post by Red Dragon »

For the F-18 Display

The Finnish F-18 for the take off, he keeps it low after tucking the wheels up. For sheer power and performance, I'd go for the Swiss F-18. I don't really remember the Spanish F-18 display :question:

tomw94
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Re: Update Today?

Post by tomw94 »

Never seen any of them but ill go swiss. And ill go hungarian for the gripen.

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Mictheslik
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Re: Update Today?

Post by Mictheslik »

Briefly on the subject of flares, a pair of lynxes (possibly the black cats) were happy to spew them out all over Yeovilton this evening and will presumably do so tomorrow as well.... :question:

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sismore
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Re: Update Today?

Post by sismore »

Well hopefuly they are allowing flares now then? :smile:

stuart n
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Re: Update Today?

Post by stuart n »

Tom's post on the previous pge explains why flares are not allowed at UK airshows.

Height is Good
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Re: Update Today?

Post by Height is Good »

tu16 wrote:With all the bad nwes coming out of Afghanistan this week, I would not be surprised if at least 1 RAF C17 is withdrawn.


Sadly, a sensible and logical supposition. :confused:

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TonyO
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Re: Update Today?

Post by TonyO »

stuart n wrote:Tom's post on the previous pge explains why flares are not allowed at UK airshows.


But that's not the case, clearly some exceptions can be made, as mictheslik says, a Lynx pair dropped around 60 flares over farmers fields at VL today...
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Height is Good
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Re: Update Today?

Post by Height is Good »

Was it on purpose though or did someone forget the 'Late Arm' switch? :whistle: :wink:

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A380FWWOW
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Re: Update Today?

Post by A380FWWOW »

Height is Good wrote:
tu16 wrote:With all the bad nwes coming out of Afghanistan this week, I would not be surprised if at least 1 RAF C17 is withdrawn.


Sadly, a sensible and logical supposition. :confused:


With even more sad news out of Afghanistan this evening (Now 5 members of the Armed Forces have died on Friday) I personally can see both of our C-17's not being there, which I quite understand!
Last edited by A380FWWOW on Sat 11 Jul 2009, 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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