Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for 2018

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speedbird2639
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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by speedbird2639 »

@IATthenRIAT

Won't happen - simple as. RIAT is a massive undertaking as it it and for those who want to be 'close' to the arrivals there is the park and view. Your suggestion would require a whole new level of organisation and volunteers - something I'm sure RIAT doesn't have spare.

When you are organising something on this scale you have cater for the needs of the many; not the needs (or wants) of the few or the one. If you can't face a crowd of 100k spread out over a showground of approx 160 acres then maybe Planestv is the best option.

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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by IATthenRIAT »

MiG_Eater wrote:IATthenRIAT - genuinely - even at the busiest times - I have always found the far west of the airfield to be extremely sparsely populated. What you're suggesting is impractical for several reasons (not least because the displays often overfly the park and view areas) but the effect of being in the show but without the crowds of people around can be achieved in the show itself by taking a bit of a walk west.


I have been down by that area and seen easily 1000 people.

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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by MiG_Eater »

IATthenRIAT wrote:
speedbird2639 wrote:This announcement gets a massive :clap: :yahoo: :up: from me - anything that RIAT (and any other air show for that matter) can do to clear away the entitled vermin that are secondary crowds is fine by me.

Long over due. If they use public safety as a flag of convenience to get this scourge eradicated then fair enough.



RIAT needs to move on and consider another angle going into the show or spotting from the outside are two completely seperate things.

If they used thier head they could generate a fair bit towards the show, "so called freeloaders" would not then be "freeloaders" but paying people with reduced facilities. :smile:


That already exists. It's called not doing FRIAT!

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trebleone
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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by trebleone »

IATthenRIAT wrote: .......... including some form of limited (small charge) viewing that is away from the road, ther will always be a large amount of people (I call 1-2000 a lot) who for waht ever reason can not go into the show (The reasons are not important) if an area was used and marshalled with vantage points over the static, I would pay £5 and bet all those who had that chance or nothing would too.

... but there isn't anywhere outside the base from where you could get more than a distant glimpse of the static park - the only place you can see the static a/c on show days is from within the showground.

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harkins
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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by harkins »

Why exactly can you not just buy a ticket and go into the airfield? There's plenty left for Friday and Sunday. Post Shoreham and even pre Shoreham most air shows have been cracking down on viewing locations outside the perimeter. Yeovilton practically sees Somerset under Marshall law for a week. And as for the organisers sticking some pallets in a farmers field and charging a fiver? Come on mate, it's not John's field.

And another thing, clearly you've been to Fairford before so I can't figure out how you think you can possibly see the static park from there, let alone photograph it. It's difficult enough when you're in there!

You sure you're not having a wind up?

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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by IATthenRIAT »

speedbird2639 wrote:@IATthenRIAT

Won't happen - simple as. RIAT is a massive undertaking as it it and for those who want to be 'close' to the arrivals there is the park and view. Your suggestion would require a whole new level of organisation and volunteers - something I'm sure RIAT doesn't have spare.

When you are organising something on this scale you have cater for the needs of the many; not the needs (or wants) of the few or the one. If you can't face a crowd of 100k spread out over a showground of approx 160 acres then maybe Planestv is the best option.


"Park and View" is not open during full show days.
It would require the same marshalling as a carpark 1 entrance and 1 exit.
Volunteers are never a problem - I kno one.
I do not consider 1-2000 people as a "few"
Some people are not able to get the tickets in advance (as you need to) as thier lifestyle may not allow for that, so last minute stay at one of the campsites is all they can do.

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harkins
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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by harkins »

Come off it. The camp sites fill up faster than the airshow tickets sell out. All your arguments seem to suggest one thing; you want to watch the show from close up for free. I might write to FIFA and ask if they can stack some pallets up outside the Luzhniki Stadium and charge a fiver to watch the World Cup final. They'd be crazy not to and miss out on a few bob from people who couldn't get tickets.

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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by IATthenRIAT »

harkins wrote:Why exactly can you not just buy a ticket and go into the airfield? There's plenty left for Friday and Sunday. Post Shoreham and even pre Shoreham most air shows have been cracking down on viewing locations outside the perimeter. Yeovilton practically sees Somerset under Marshall law for a week. And as for the organisers sticking some pallets in a farmers field and charging a fiver? Come on mate, it's not John's field.

And another thing, clearly you've been to Fairford before so I can't figure out how you think you can possibly see the static park from there, let alone photograph it. It's difficult enough when you're in there!

You sure you're not having a wind up?


I was there last year and as I am a number cruncher I spent about 10 minutes by the fence, I was able to photograph some of the north flightline, and for my own reference to log what I saw - I managed to log about 85% of the static.
Not everyone is a dedicated to log a plane from seeing its tail or part of the plane, but there are a few of us.

Display wise - yep quite happy to sit in a chair on a campsite with perhaps 100 other laid back campers, taking pics with no heads in the way, no fuss - no hassle and no crowds and no massive cues to use smelly loos.

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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by IATthenRIAT »

harkins wrote:Come off it. The camp sites fill up faster than the airshow tickets sell out.


Not the one I went to - 10.00 am arrival and no cues going in, it stayed that way all day long, not even 50% full - very nice day depite the carp weather.

Dan213
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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by Dan213 »

IATthenRIAT wrote:
harkins wrote:Why exactly can you not just buy a ticket and go into the airfield? There's plenty left for Friday and Sunday. Post Shoreham and even pre Shoreham most air shows have been cracking down on viewing locations outside the perimeter. Yeovilton practically sees Somerset under Marshall law for a week. And as for the organisers sticking some pallets in a farmers field and charging a fiver? Come on mate, it's not John's field.

And another thing, clearly you've been to Fairford before so I can't figure out how you think you can possibly see the static park from there, let alone photograph it. It's difficult enough when you're in there!

You sure you're not having a wind up?


I was there last year and as I am a number cruncher I spent about 10 minutes by the fence, I was able to photograph some of the north flightline, and for my own reference to log what I saw - I managed to log about 85% of the static.
Not everyone is a dedicated to log a plane from seeing its tail or part of the plane, but there are a few of us.

Display wise - yep quite happy to sit in a chair on a campsite with perhaps 100 other laid back campers, taking pics with no heads in the way, no fuss - no hassle and no crowds and no massive cues to use smelly loos.


Again as has been said, if you are a number cruncher then go to Park and View. I really can’t see where you are coming from here, apart from the fact that you want to go to an Airshow for next to nothing. If that’s your kind of thing then stick to seaside shows...

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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by IATthenRIAT »

I am simply saying that there is potential for RIAT to make extra revenue from a situation that will always be there, always happen, there will always be x - thousand of people who will not or can not (for what ever reason) go into the show, RIAT are silly not to exploit this situation to thier gain while keeping within safety regs, and without very much hassle for the organisers.
The area being blocked off is already being marshalled and public are being diverted through a gate(I suppose) this gate could simply take £5 per head and within the field where the walkway will be, could have 2 porta loos and a small fast food van, limited coasts - safe, conveneint and completely seperate money RIAT would not be making, im sure RAFBF would not turn thier nose up at an additional - £20 - £30 - £40 - £50.000 pounds, or would they.

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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by IATthenRIAT »

When I went down there last year I was gob smacked by the amount of people there - easily touching on a 1000, of all age and types - I saw a fair share of elderly sitting in deckchairs, families, spotters photogs on step ladders, I even saw a mobile ice cream seller on a bike (I kid you not) it was like a festival not just a handful of photographers (like a few on here make out)

There is deffinatley a core of people who would deffo pay a small charge to still view from the general area (All be it controled)

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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by Dan213 »

IATthenRIAT wrote:I am simply saying that there is potential for RIAT to make extra revenue from a situation that will always be there, always happen, there will always be x - thousand of people who will not or can not (for what ever reason) go into the show, RIAT are silly not to exploit this situation to thier gain while keeping within safety regs, and without very much hassle for the organisers.
The area being blocked off is already being marshalled and public are being diverted through a gate(I suppose) this gate could simply take £5 per head and within the field where the walkway will be, could have 2 porta loos and a small fast food van, limited coasts - safe, conveneint and completely seperate money RIAT would not be making, I'm sure RAFBF would not turn thier nose up at an additional - £20 - £30 - £40 - £50.000 pounds, or would they.


RIAT supports the RAFCTE not the RAFBF. Furthermore it would probably cost a significant amount to set up an external viewing enclosure. It has to be risk assessed, there have to be adequate facilities, staff and the land outside the base isn’t owned by the MOD. It’s one thing paying a farmer x amount to put a temporary footpath throughout go his field but if RIAT were making a farmer’s field a public viewing area it would be a different matter entirely. It should also be noted that in order to comply with MAA regulations you would have to be a set distance away from the display line, which would rule out the entire field you are suggesting using. If people can’t afford to do a show day then perhaps they should look at park and view. Alternatively, there are plenty of campsites you can stay at for the weekend that would give to a satisfactory view of the flying display without having to pay the additional cost of a ticket. Your figures are all over the place and have very little credibility, I suggest doing a little more research in the future

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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by IATthenRIAT »

Dan213 wrote:
IATthenRIAT wrote:


RIAT supports the RAFCTE not the RAFBF. Furthermore it would probably cost a significant amount to set up an external viewing enclosure. It has to be risk assessed, there have to be adequate facilities, staff and the land outside the base isn’t owned by the MOD. It’s one thing paying a farmer x amount to put a temporary footpath throughout go his field but if RIAT were making a farmer’s field a public viewing area it would be a different matter entirely. It should also be noted that in order to comply with MAA regulations you would have to be a set distance away from the display line, which would rule out the entire field you are suggesting using. If people can’t afford to do a show day then perhaps they should look at park and view. Alternatively, there are plenty of campsites you can stay at for the weekend that would give to a satisfactory view of the flying display without having to pay the additional cost of a ticket. Your figures are all over the place and have very little credibility, I suggest doing a little more research in the future


We will have to agree to dissagree over this one - I was simply saying that there is going to be several thousand people who could have contibuted to the cause - there is nothing to say that these people will change thier habbits this year and attend the show.
The show will always go on as it has and no doubt rise in cost, and same people will no doubt continue to attend and coplain about the types of aircraft that attended, or the food prices - rows to use toilets, or at the park and view - complain about fence hoggers being greedy and not sharing room with other folks.

The joys of our hobby....... :wink: :wat:

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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by Dan213 »

IATthenRIAT wrote:
Dan213 wrote:
IATthenRIAT wrote:


RIAT supports the RAFCTE not the RAFBF. Furthermore it would probably cost a significant amount to set up an external viewing enclosure. It has to be risk assessed, there have to be adequate facilities, staff and the land outside the base isn’t owned by the MOD. It’s one thing paying a farmer x amount to put a temporary footpath throughout go his field but if RIAT were making a farmer’s field a public viewing area it would be a different matter entirely. It should also be noted that in order to comply with MAA regulations you would have to be a set distance away from the display line, which would rule out the entire field you are suggesting using. If people can’t afford to do a show day then perhaps they should look at park and view. Alternatively, there are plenty of campsites you can stay at for the weekend that would give to a satisfactory view of the flying display without having to pay the additional cost of a ticket. Your figures are all over the place and have very little credibility, I suggest doing a little more research in the future


We will have to agree to dissagree over this one - I was simply saying that there is going to be several thousand people who could have contibuted to the cause - there is nothing to say that these people will change thier habbits this year and attend the show.
The show will always go on as it has and no doubt rise in cost, and same people will no doubt continue to attend and coplain about the types of aircraft that attended, or the food prices - rows to use toilets, or at the park and view - complain about fence hoggers being greedy and not sharing room with other folks.

The joys of our hobby....... :wink: :wat:


The key point in my post was that the field you suggest putting this viewing area in is completely out of bounds to due its proximity to the display line. The nearest field you could even attempt to use would be the one south of the munitions stores. Further to this, the additional staff required would cost more alongside the fact that the MOD does not own any of this land make things difficult. Also, where do you stop, if they charged £15 for this area, then would there be a £10 area 2 miles away, and then an additional £5 area 2 miles further than that?. At the end of the day, like others have said, if you want to see the static, then buy a ticket. What you are suggesting is like offering a second half only ticket to a football match for those that don’t want to pay for the whole thing...

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speedbird2639
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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by speedbird2639 »

Given that @IATthenRIAT only created his account last weekend then there is a good chance that he is a previously banned member on a new login just here for the troll as he knows what pushes peoples buttons on here so he is just appealing to the lowest common denominator to get as many results as possible.

There is more chance of an SR-71 flying over and doing a full display than what he is suggesting happening so we may as well leave it there. Where it is for road safety, crowd safety or just a way to extinguish the demand for a secondary crowd the fact of the matter is freeloading from the road under the approach at RIAT is done, over, finished so I don't see what there is to discuss.

Bravo to the relevant authorities for taking some positive action (finally- only 30 years late!)

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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by Wrexham Mackem »

IATthenRIAT wrote:Some people are not able to get the tickets in advance (as you need to) as thier lifestyle may not allow for that, so last minute stay at one of the campsites is all they can do.


Say what?? someone's lifestyle precludes them from buying a ticket? how on earth can that be so?

Honestly, there are many myths that are perpetuated by people who don't go in, to justify what is basically freeloading. I won't judge on the rights and wrongs of it (I've shot from outside from time to time at other venues), but that's what it is, no matter how many 'smokers' excuses' you trot out.

Despite popular myth amongst some, the showground is not some sort of endurance ordeal. Parking and getting in can be very smooth depending on what time you go, finding a vantage point to watch the flying is never difficult in what is a very laid back show ground compared to the old days.

If all you want to do is log your numbers, a single day ticket is very very good value, they're still available now, and you'll be putting a small amount back into the show which justifies it being in existence in the first place.

speedbird2639 wrote:
Bravo to the relevant authorities for taking some positive action (finally- only 30 years late!)


Absolutely, that bit of road has been a potential death trap since 85.
its time to kick the tyres and light the fires

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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by MiG_Eater »

As i've alluded to above, RIAT can be one of the most relaxing airshow experiences going if you want it to be. The showground is so large you will always be able to find a sparsely populated area.

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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by PanaviaTornado »

Critical failure on a single engined jet post takeoff (Vlof given runway arrestor gear) using 09 could result in one almighty mess given the crowds that congregate there. Surprised it took this long tbh!

Not totally comparable, but as an example of how things can go rapidly wrong at anytime, the F-16D crash at Albacete: http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article4919.html

Naturally any airshow has risks. An F-16 turning towards the crowd at 400kn+ having a critical failure could result in a large mess too, but that is just a given risk at an airshow, you can remove the road spotters and reduce the risk(s) without the spectacle taking a hit.

.

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Duffer
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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by Duffer »

But would they pay? Would they not find some other way of ‘freeloading’?

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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by Dan213 »

Duffer wrote:But would they pay? Would they not find some other way of ‘freeloading’?


Precisely my point. I sat down there about 3 years back and when the volunteers came out with the charity bucket several just ignored them. There was even one gentleman who proceeded to tell the volunteers that he “wasn’t f*****g paying for this”

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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by MiG_Eater »

To be fair i've never been there on a show day, and have no interest in it for anything but arrivals. I can quite imagine it gets a bit mad over the weekend.

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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by Georgeconna »

jingernut wrote:
IATthenRIAT wrote:What happens if you have a mental dissabilty illness and cant cope with a full day and all the crowds bunched together in the show, also you may not be able to plan things well in advance (may not have transport plans or friends/family) but camping and seeing the flying in a less crowded situation is fine, but you still want to see even for just a few moments (long enough to take a few shots of the static).
Does that mean somone like this is not entitled to still try to get thier best from a day out at RIAT.


Stay at home and watch the live stream. Forget about the statics.


Is there a Freeloading link to the Live Stream at all?

I logged loads at YVL last year from my Armchair, Same with Cosford until it the stream dropped. Saves me 100s of pounds.
Cheers

George

Zero shows for 2018 Giving in a Rest.

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by Brevet Cable »

Funy you should say that.....
From their youtube :
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From their website :
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Tôi chỉ đặt cái này ở đây để giữ cho người điều hành bận rộn
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clearstone
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Re: Whelford End - spotting from pavement being blocked for

Post by clearstone »

Except the RIAT broadcast is being held on a dedicated Pay-Per-View platform called "Cleeng" and not their own servers so the two week trial won't help you.

https://planestv.cleeng.com/royal-international-air-tattoo-13th-july-2018-day-1-live/E619542445_GB

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