RIAT 2019
Re: RIAT 2019
Went Saturday - first time - was a great day!
London > A40/M40 drive was good...but crawled for the last 20 minutes getting into the car park for just after 9am.
Air displays were all pretty cool...wished the Chinook was up there too...didn't realise how big the showground of static crafts were!
As there was always action in the air, it was hard to leave the crowd-line and explore the showground...so only did the showground towards the end during Breitling session.
SU-27 was quality...RAF Typhoon has to be the loudest?!
Exiting the car park was a joke - no proper signage, everyone was snaking through gaps, and it took over half an hour just to get out, which could surely be managed better.
But it was worth it and will probably be there again next year!
London > A40/M40 drive was good...but crawled for the last 20 minutes getting into the car park for just after 9am.
Air displays were all pretty cool...wished the Chinook was up there too...didn't realise how big the showground of static crafts were!
As there was always action in the air, it was hard to leave the crowd-line and explore the showground...so only did the showground towards the end during Breitling session.
SU-27 was quality...RAF Typhoon has to be the loudest?!
Exiting the car park was a joke - no proper signage, everyone was snaking through gaps, and it took over half an hour just to get out, which could surely be managed better.
But it was worth it and will probably be there again next year!
- rockfordstone
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Re: RIAT 2019
jonspurs wrote:Exiting the car park was a joke - no proper signage, everyone was snaking through gaps, and it took over half an hour just to get out, which could surely be managed better.
only half hour? it took me 2 hours to get out haha
Re: RIAT 2019
Had a great RIAT on Saturday (even managing to leave the Green car park in less than five minutes after the show) but feel gutted for those who attended on the Friday. Given that weather issues are something that seem to happen quite regularly (I seem to remember something similar in 2017) it makes me wonder why DBH don't have a poor weather contingency plan. This might just be aircraft taking off, flying a circuit and landing, but that would still be better than nothing. This could involve different aircraft from the standard display, perhaps some of the more interesting types that aren't cleared for display. For example, I think if one of the F4s had a flown a circuit on the Friday morning it would have made a huge difference to crowd morale. Obviously if the weather improves the display can revert back to the normal programme.
Of course, the downside of such a plan would be fewer aircraft on static display and the need to have far more aircraft (and crew) prepped and ready to fly each day. I could imagine enthusiasts baulking at this proposal but I think that for your average punter (who probably represents 95% of RIAT attendees) this would be a worthwhile sacrifice as most come to see flying aircraft, not static aircraft and a wet runway.
Of course, the downside of such a plan would be fewer aircraft on static display and the need to have far more aircraft (and crew) prepped and ready to fly each day. I could imagine enthusiasts baulking at this proposal but I think that for your average punter (who probably represents 95% of RIAT attendees) this would be a worthwhile sacrifice as most come to see flying aircraft, not static aircraft and a wet runway.
- play it cool
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Re: RIAT 2019
foxycub wrote: Given that weather issues are something that seem to happen quite regularly (I seem to remember something similar in 2017) it makes me wonder why DBH don't have a poor weather contingency plan. This might just be aircraft taking off, flying a circuit and landing, but that would still be better than nothing. This could involve different aircraft from the standard display, perhaps some of the more interesting types that aren't cleared for display. For example, I think if one of the F4s had a flown a circuit on the Friday morning it would have made a huge difference to crowd morale.
It doesn't work like that. Had DBH been able to get something airborne, it would have been from the flying, rather than static display.
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Re: RIAT 2019
Brevet Cable wrote:JJC wrote:- NATO flypast was blink and you’ll miss it.
Which NATO flypast......it was so disjointed, with such a long delay between each element that it may just as well have been referred to as a series of individual Nations flypasts.
The RAFAT-PdeF, RAFAT-B747 & Blades-A400 flypasts were much better.
But then, the term disjointed could be applied to the Saturday as a whole -- looooong gaps between most of the displays throughout the day.
Commentary was hit-and-miss again....most spectacular miss was when they were too busy waffling on to realise the Belgian F-16s were running in for their flypast....it's a bit late telling the punters "If you look to the left" when the bloody things are already halfway along the runway!
Harriers.... And well done for remembering that the crowdline doesn't just exist in front of the grandstands
Agree with this, Saturdays flying programme was disjointed and disappointing with a few exceptions. I know there was a cross wind and a few aircraft going u/s which was unforrtunate. Commentary was poor compared to previous years.
Static generally okay but why park the German EF-200 and Danish F-16 both with special paint jobs near the wheel and all the clutter at the east end? Parking them down the other end or near the Turkish F-4's would have been better.
7 out of ten overalll for me. Good to see the AV-8's, MiG-21's and Su-27's but not a classic show.
Traffic awful getting out of the blue car parks on Saturday evening, worst I can remember for many years. No problems for me on Sunday although I left earlier.
Re: RIAT 2019
harking and play it cool , glad you both got to see the B-52 depart , I should have had a little more faith that it wouldn't sneak out 'out of hours'.
Sorry I meant harkins , should have checked the spellcheck
Sorry I meant harkins , should have checked the spellcheck
Last edited by Habu on Tue 23 Jul 2019, 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: RIAT 2019
I enjoyed the Jordanian Falcons too - they flew a great formation display to traditional music and have improved loads since I last saw them.
On the Saturday the Frecce didn't do their 9 ship break or the 9 ship cross - are they not 'allowed' to do them at RIAT ?
Also the Patrouille de France flew their flat show on Saturday morning but the USAF Viper that was next flew its high display so conditions were improving. I know the Reds have the ability to switch from low to high displays depending on the weather conditions improving but do the European teams have to stick to the display they start?
On the Saturday the Frecce didn't do their 9 ship break or the 9 ship cross - are they not 'allowed' to do them at RIAT ?
Also the Patrouille de France flew their flat show on Saturday morning but the USAF Viper that was next flew its high display so conditions were improving. I know the Reds have the ability to switch from low to high displays depending on the weather conditions improving but do the European teams have to stick to the display they start?
Re: RIAT 2019
I*think* it's only the RAFAT who switch mid display. Are they also the only ones with three displays to choose from?
"There's only one way of life, and that's your own"
Re: RIAT 2019
The Suisse Hornet kept switching betwen his high and flat show on Saturday, I think its something that any display item can do.
- chrisward123
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Re: RIAT 2019
Moan, Moan, Moan!
I personally think the two days were brilliant, Hats off to DBH once again.
Static - Agree with positioning of SU-27 and German Typhoon etc could have been better - but overall very happy with rest of static.
Marketing - Shambles Overall
Updates - Not as detailed as previous years
Stalls - Decent amount of stalls this year - all Air Arms provided a decent amount of Tat, really happy with my Spanish Harrier RIAT T-Shirt.
Only issue was the pricing of the Romanian stall, £5 for a sticker!
Friday - Weather ruined the day but fair play for them to organise the NATO E-3A missed approach.
Saturday -
First time I have seen a Mig 21 in the air - that Missed Approach
SU-27, fantastic display
Harriers - fantastic to see a Harrier(s) again in British Skies and full marks to the Spanish to fixing the 2nd Harrier so quick.
Finnish F-18 - best display of the day
Reds & 747 and Concorde Formation - Great!
Car Park - Parked in Green Car Park - straight in and straight out (left at the end) - no issues at all
Only negative was the NATO Flypast, gutted not yet been able to see the Heritage F-15s - NATO Flypast cancellations and choice of airframes used out of DBHs control
I personally think the two days were brilliant, Hats off to DBH once again.
Static - Agree with positioning of SU-27 and German Typhoon etc could have been better - but overall very happy with rest of static.
Marketing - Shambles Overall
Updates - Not as detailed as previous years
Stalls - Decent amount of stalls this year - all Air Arms provided a decent amount of Tat, really happy with my Spanish Harrier RIAT T-Shirt.
Only issue was the pricing of the Romanian stall, £5 for a sticker!
Friday - Weather ruined the day but fair play for them to organise the NATO E-3A missed approach.
Saturday -
First time I have seen a Mig 21 in the air - that Missed Approach
SU-27, fantastic display
Harriers - fantastic to see a Harrier(s) again in British Skies and full marks to the Spanish to fixing the 2nd Harrier so quick.
Finnish F-18 - best display of the day
Reds & 747 and Concorde Formation - Great!
Car Park - Parked in Green Car Park - straight in and straight out (left at the end) - no issues at all
Only negative was the NATO Flypast, gutted not yet been able to see the Heritage F-15s - NATO Flypast cancellations and choice of airframes used out of DBHs control
Lakes Lightning Collection
- play it cool
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Re: RIAT 2019
Habu wrote:harking and play it cool , glad you both got to see the B-52 depart , I should have had a little more faith that it wouldn't sneak out 'out of hours'.
Thanks Habu, mind you it was looking touch and go as to whether it would depart before we got turfed out! Never seen so many people leave P&V (W) at the same time!
Re: RIAT 2019
BossMann wrote:On the Saturday the Frecce didn't do their 9 ship break or the 9 ship cross - are they not 'allowed' to do them at RIAT ?
Not well versed in Frecce routines so unsure about a 9-ship break, but the 5v4 cross took place several times?
Midlands Airshow programmes from 70's & 80's https://www.flickr.com/photos/130632085@N02/albums/72157673369723585
Re: RIAT 2019
IP1960 wrote:BossMann wrote:On the Saturday the Frecce didn't do their 9 ship break or the 9 ship cross - are they not 'allowed' to do them at RIAT ?
Not well versed in Frecce routines so unsure about a 9-ship break, but the 5v4 cross took place several times?
Not the 5 v 4 cross but the spectacular 9 ship one from all directions
Re: RIAT 2019
BossMann wrote:IP1960 wrote:BossMann wrote:On the Saturday the Frecce didn't do their 9 ship break or the 9 ship cross - are they not 'allowed' to do them at RIAT ?
Not well versed in Frecce routines so unsure about a 9-ship break, but the 5v4 cross took place several times?
Not the 5 v 4 cross but the spectacular 9 ship one from all directions
Never seen the one you’re thinking of I don’t think...from all directions? Like the aircraft cross coming from all directions? If it’s like the snowbirds one that I would relate to that explanation then it wouldn’t pass with uk regs as it requires flying over the crowd.
Re: RIAT 2019
They haven't done that manoeuvre for a few years now, at RIAT at least.
Re: RIAT 2019
IIRC the 9-ship manoeuvre requires aircraft coming from crowd rear. That requires special dispensation under the regs which (IIRC) can only be given to UK teams and then only 2 or 3 hold this including the Reds, BBMF and (I think) the Blades.
Re: RIAT 2019
There you go guys...the survey is out now for you guys to properly voice your concerns on what went wrong and what went right this year at air tattoo.
- capercaillie
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Re: RIAT 2019
boff180 wrote:IIRC the 9-ship manoeuvre requires aircraft coming from crowd rear. That requires special dispensation under the regs which (IIRC) can only be given to UK teams and then only 2 or 3 hold this including the Reds, BBMF and (I think) the Blades.
They don't come from crowd rear.
They carried out the manoeuvre in practice last year, with the farcical Freccegate roping off of the extreme eastern part of park and view East during the display, the rope certainly made me feel safer. This area wouldn't have had public standing on show days anyway. The outer aircraft approach from a slight angle from behind the crowds (think 747 and Reds), not over the crowds, and all cross over the centre of the airfield in front of the crowds. For some reason its not been performed on show days the last two years and wasn't in the practice this year, although the practice lost its way when one aircraft pulled out mid way through, I'd never seen the Frecce look so ragged as during the practice to be honest.
Last edited by capercaillie on Tue 23 Jul 2019, 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: RIAT 2019
Here’s a non-exhaustive list of PR errors for your post-show survey... feel free to C&P it
RIAT PR errors
- Buzz Aldwin
- Italian Tornado video captioned as a Typhoon - have you really been ‘enjoying videos of past displays’ when you can’t distinguish the two?
- NATO E-3A captioned as an E-3D
- Norwegian and Dutch F-16s in flypast never mentioned on website.
- Norwegian F-16 captioned as Danish F-16
- ‘’First debut’’ of the Grumman firebird
- Update policy - are you announcing ‘as and when’ or Thursday noon? Ruins the buildup and makes announcements seem more insignificant as a result
- Hyping Sunday’s flypast and it turning out to be the A400M with the Blades. ‘’8 spinning propellers in total!’’ - patronising and completely lacking self and audience awareness
- Aircraft blurbs being recycled - Eg. Same text for RAF Typhoon demo as for Typhoons in flypast
- Aircraft confirmations not appearing on list for days/weeks after update
- Countries on aircraft confirmation list being out of alphabetical order eg. France AAC at bottom of list for over a day
- Lack of info on flypast operating bases - surely known in advance of 2 weeks before the show?
- Theme - Space. What aircraft did that attract? Or could reasonably have attracted?
- ‘Jordan Joins the Show’ email when the Royal Jordanian Falcons had already confirmed
EDIT - corrected as Spanish Harriers have apparently appeared before.
RIAT PR errors
- Buzz Aldwin
- Italian Tornado video captioned as a Typhoon - have you really been ‘enjoying videos of past displays’ when you can’t distinguish the two?
- NATO E-3A captioned as an E-3D
- Norwegian and Dutch F-16s in flypast never mentioned on website.
- Norwegian F-16 captioned as Danish F-16
- ‘’First debut’’ of the Grumman firebird
- Update policy - are you announcing ‘as and when’ or Thursday noon? Ruins the buildup and makes announcements seem more insignificant as a result
- Hyping Sunday’s flypast and it turning out to be the A400M with the Blades. ‘’8 spinning propellers in total!’’ - patronising and completely lacking self and audience awareness
- Aircraft blurbs being recycled - Eg. Same text for RAF Typhoon demo as for Typhoons in flypast
- Aircraft confirmations not appearing on list for days/weeks after update
- Countries on aircraft confirmation list being out of alphabetical order eg. France AAC at bottom of list for over a day
- Lack of info on flypast operating bases - surely known in advance of 2 weeks before the show?
- Theme - Space. What aircraft did that attract? Or could reasonably have attracted?
- ‘Jordan Joins the Show’ email when the Royal Jordanian Falcons had already confirmed
EDIT - corrected as Spanish Harriers have apparently appeared before.
Last edited by JJC on Tue 23 Jul 2019, 11:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
''Time to dive into the fireworks!''
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Re: RIAT 2019
Spanish Navy AV-8As appeared in the flying programme in 1994.
Re: RIAT 2019
FlankerPhoto wrote:Spanish Navy AV-8As appeared in the flying programme in 1994.
Apologies - thought from what Ben Dunnell said in the commentary, that this was a first for the flying. First EAV-8B appearance then?
''Time to dive into the fireworks!''
Re: RIAT 2019
JJC wrote:Apologies - thought from what Ben Dunnell said in the commentary, that this was a first for the flying. First EAV-8B appearance then?
Yep, that’s what he said.
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Re: RIAT 2019
JJC wrote:FlankerPhoto wrote:Spanish Navy AV-8As appeared in the flying programme in 1994.
Apologies - thought from what Ben Dunnell said in the commentary, that this was a first for the flying. First EAV-8B appearance then?
Correct.
You caaan't trust the system... Maaan!
Re: RIAT 2019
Frecce practice the 9 ship charge towards crowd center last year but were told not to fly it during the display as it cut the crowd line
Thomas
Re: RIAT 2019
capercaillie wrote:boff180 wrote:IIRC the 9-ship manoeuvre requires aircraft coming from crowd rear. That requires special dispensation under the regs which (IIRC) can only be given to UK teams and then only 2 or 3 hold this including the Reds, BBMF and (I think) the Blades.
They don't come from crowd rear.
They carried out the manoeuvre in practice last year, with the farcical Freccegate roping off of the extreme eastern part of park and view East during the display, the rope certainly made me feel safer. This area wouldn't have had public standing on show days anyway. The outer aircraft approach from a slight angle from behind the crowds (think 747 and Reds), not over the crowds, and all cross over the centre of the airfield in front of the crowds. For some reason its not been performed on show days the last two years and wasn't in the practice this year, although the practice lost its way when one aircraft pulled out mid way through, I'd never seen the Frecce look so ragged as during the practice to be honest.
Exactly this. Having a team that have practiced their routine safely to perfection to then have an airshow say "you can't do that here--change it" scares me to be honest. A team leader has enough to think about without last minute ammendments to avoid over flying 12 people in a sterile display area that they've done perfectly well for decades. It also dilutes the teams impression on the GP and you end up with people saying the Reds are better, which is unfair. The ultimate piece of nonsense was them being not to use smoke over Fairford village, completely and utterly barmy. If I was them I'd say sod it, full show or we don't come.
You caaan't trust the system... Maaan!