The future of RIAT

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MiG_Eater
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The future of RIAT

Post by MiG_Eater »

RIAT is, for me, the absolute highlight of my year - every year. The thought of it's eventual demise is one I hate to even consider - yet with social media amplifying the disappointment of many it is easy to imagine volunteers (particularly those on the front line of the enthusiast-forums) losing faith. This, along with RAF Fairford's imminent hand over to the USAF as a full-time active base; I wonder if those in the know can see RIAT lasting much longer.

Can RIAT still continue when Fairford gets it's RC-135s?
Can DBH cope with the inevitable onslaught of disappointment when RIAT, yet again, doesn't live up to the shows of the mid '90s?

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Tmyers123
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by Tmyers123 »

Of course DBH can cope. It’s a few spoiled enthusiasts who are never happy with what they’ve got, versus thousands upon thousands who enjoy the show every year.

I don’t believe they would be disheartened by the disappointment of certain enthusiasts who relentlessly compare the show to the airshows of the 90s, because we know, and DBH know, that those days are gone and air arms have decreased drastically in size and DBH is not manned to the levels that it used to be.
Last edited by Tmyers123 on Wed 25 Jul 2018, 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

What will kill RIAT eventually is the rising cost of admission. There's only so much milk in the teat. Asking £50 for a ticket when each year seems to be ever-diminishing returns is bound to end one way.

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Brevet Cable
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by Brevet Cable »

RIAT isn't Fairford & Fairford isn't RIAT.
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Dan213
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by Dan213 »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:What will kill RIAT eventually is the rising cost of admission. There's only so much milk in the teat. Asking £50 for a ticket when each year seems to be ever-diminishing returns is bound to end one way.


Hasn’t stopped them selling out the past few years. Have you got any evidence to suggest these ‘diminishing returns’ or have you just made this up? All these statements you keep keep making without backing are beginning to make you look like the Daily Mail of UKAR :lol:

MiG_Eater
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by MiG_Eater »

I definitely don't agree that RIAT provides diminishing returns. Most agreed 2017 was a 'classic' and I think 2018 was its equal at the very least. I do FRIAT so it's a little different - but £50.00 for a day at RIAT is, for me, a bargain.

As for RIAT not being Fairford; maybe that is so - but on-airfield military airshows are not exactly flourishing at the moment and I can't see that it would be quite so easy these days to relocate to another base. I hope i'm wrong, but time will tell I suppose!

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Paul_Reflex
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by Paul_Reflex »

From my experience of talking to the volunteers at RIAT, I would say that they are very far away from losing their faith in the show.

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HeyfordDave111
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by HeyfordDave111 »

I think it very unfair to label those who went and then said it 'didnt quite live up to expectations' as "spoilt".
I was one of those, who were critical of the show, as i felt things were quite 'samey' in many respects, athough good for those who only went 1 day etc.

If, even in this day of social networking, voice your opinions for fear of being labelled in a negative way, then what have we come to?

Being critical of something, no matter if it is an airshow or a movie, isnt a new thing, it has been going on for many years. You only had to be on a fenceline 20 years ago to experience that this is no new phenomenon.

Thisis still a free country, and i can only humbly suggest that your voice, is equally important as the next persons. You have a right to say 'its the best show ever' for example, and i have a right to say 'it was ok' and 'there was room for improvement'

It doesnt matter that i've been going every year since 92, and maybe your a newbie, both opinions are equally valid in my opinion and always will be. Yes i've seen my fair share of exotic hardware, but i am also a realist in that i know and understand those days are behind us now. It doesnt make me spoilt, just lucky in that i did experience a lot, but conversly, i started too late and missed a huge amount too.
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pbeardmore
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by pbeardmore »

Looking at how busy it was on Friday (I have been to all the other Friday shows) and based on the sellout on Saturday, I would say there is a good chance that their income could be the biggest ever this year. So, I think they are in fine form.

I think a non sellout on Saturday would be a first indication that their maybe issues but I would bet a few quid on a Sat sellout next year.
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Brevet Cable
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by Brevet Cable »

Dan213 wrote:Hasn’t stopped them selling out the past few years

Except they haven't.....nor did they do so this year.
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Dan213
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by Dan213 »

Brevet Cable wrote:
Dan213 wrote:Hasn’t stopped them selling out the past few years

Except they haven't.....nor did they do so this year.


Friday and Saturday sold out with Sunday coming very close too

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boff180
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by boff180 »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:What will kill RIAT eventually is the rising cost of admission. There's only so much milk in the teat. Asking £50 for a ticket when each year seems to be ever-diminishing returns is bound to end one way.


For a family of 4.... with a 13yo and 10yo.....

Going to see the Wasps play for 80 minutes, decent seats bought in advance = £102

Going to see Manchester United play for 90 minutes, crap seats bought in advance as a one-off = £108

A day out at Alton Towers with tickets bought in advance = £126.50 (£213 full price)

A day out at the 2019 Silverstone Grand Prix without grandstand = £420

A day out at RIAT 2018 with 8hrs of flying and 2 miles of static - earlybird advanced tickets = £100 (£110 full price)

Really bad value for money...… :roll:

Dan213
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by Dan213 »

Further to my previous point, 2017 saw 160,000 visitors whereas this year saw 185,000. This all but goes to show that the claims that the price is reducing attendance has just been fabricated

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Brevet Cable
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by Brevet Cable »

Dan213 wrote:Friday and Saturday sold out with Sunday coming very close too

So not sold out, then.

Dan213 wrote:Further to my previous point, 2017 saw 160,000 visitors whereas this year saw 185,000. This all but goes to show that the claims that the price is reducing attendance has just been fabricated

Of course, the number of those who benefited from this year's policy of raising the free entry age to 18 wouldn't have skewed that total, would it....nor the fact that this year the Friday was a full showday.
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pbeardmore
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by pbeardmore »

So thats 25,000 additional punters at , say £45/£50 a pop ? On that basis, must be tempting to go for another full Friday display next year? I wonder what the additional overheads are regarding a full Friday?

Now they have tested the water, must be hard to take the decision not to go for a full Friday although the "promise" of the big flypast would have made a difference. I remember when the first Friday display was announced , there were naysayers on the forum but, over time, I think it turned out to be a good decision.
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Brevet Cable
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by Brevet Cable »

Except that - given the fact that they raised the age limit for those qualifying for free entry - there's no guarantee those additional punters raised any more money with regards ticket sales.
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st24
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by st24 »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:What will kill RIAT eventually is the rising cost of admission. There's only so much milk in the teat. Asking £50 for a ticket when each year seems to be ever-diminishing returns is bound to end one way.

I think they're still reeling from the "shed loads of cash" they gave you and need to top up the coffers.... :snack:
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pbeardmore
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by pbeardmore »

Brevet Cable wrote:Except that - given the fact that they raised the age limit for those qualifying for free entry - there's no guarantee those additional punters raised any more money with regards ticket sales.


Yes, fair point.
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jason82wells
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by jason82wells »

I don't think DBH will be concerned, even if some punters might be thinking down that line.

As per one of the posts further up the thread, riat is fantastic value for money when compared to 90 mins of football for example. It's a full day out and it caters for non aviation folk better now than it ever has done before.

Thinking back to Cottesmore, was that still an active base when riat was there for two years in the spin? Can't quite remember, maybe it was Harriers rather than the TTE Tornados.

DonaldGrump
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by DonaldGrump »

Whilst Fairford continues to host RIAT I think it will continue to flourish though over time may continue to evolve in such a way does not generally satisfy the ardent "riat in the 90s" enthusiast.

I do however agree with those calling DBH out on the admission costs. Yes it may well present reasonable value for money for an adult with kids whose admission is free.

For the lone adult or one with Mrs or older child it is a hell of an expensive trip. £110 for me and my 21yr old, sorry you are taking the p155 DBH. This year was i think my 29th Tattoo, I have been there as a paying customer including FRIAT I have been in FOC as a voiunteer with a participant. It is an event I look forward to every year and have only missed a few since my first at Greenham in 1979, Havent missed one this century!

This time neither I or my eldest who is working but on a low wage and has to find money for driving lessons, rent, and so on could justify or even afford to stump up such a price and thus remained on the campsite and watched from there. Unless my own circumstances change dramatically which is highly unlikely due to health issues I will be doing the same next year and the year after that.

Much like those comparison events mentioned in an earlier post RIAT has become greedy as it becomes more well known and demand for tickets increase. Sadly they have completely priced out many thousands of folk who supported and followed the show for decades.

FRIAT is just about value for money I would suggest for those who can afford it. Other than that and those with youngsters then it is not. Maybe now there are few if any true enthusiasts in the higher echelons of DBH and they have been replaced with business men whose sole purpose is to extract every last penny from the public and maximise the profit to the last penny at all cost and above anything else.

Still we still had a fantastic time from the outside and got some marvellous views not rivalled inside so all is not lost. It is however a shame that RIAT is now simply too expensive for many long time attendees who are effectively no longer needed.

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Gonzo230
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by Gonzo230 »

DonaldGrump wrote:Whilst Fairford continues to host RIAT I think it will continue to flourish though over time may continue to evolve in such a way does not generally satisfy the ardent "RIAT in the 90s" enthusiast.

I do however agree with those calling DBH out on the admission costs. Yes it may well present reasonable value for money for an adult with kids whose admission is free.

For the lone adult or one with Mrs or older child it is a hell of an expensive trip. £110 for me and my 21yr old, sorry you are taking the p155 DBH. This year was i think my 29th Tattoo, I have been there as a paying customer including FRIAT I have been in FOC as a voiunteer with a participant. It is an event I look forward to every year and have only missed a few since my first at Greenham in 1979, Havent missed one this century!

This time neither I or my eldest who is working but on a low wage and has to find money for driving lessons, rent, and so on could justify or even afford to stump up such a price and thus remained on the campsite and watched from there. Unless my own circumstances change dramatically which is highly unlikely due to health issues I will be doing the same next year and the year after that.

Much like those comparison events mentioned in an earlier post RIAT has become greedy as it becomes more well known and demand for tickets increase. Sadly they have completely priced out many thousands of folk who supported and followed the show for decades.

FRIAT is just about value for money I would suggest for those who can afford it. Other than that and those with youngsters then it is not. Maybe now there are few if any true enthusiasts in the higher echelons of DBH and they have been replaced with business men whose sole purpose is to extract every last penny from the public and maximise the profit to the last penny at all cost and above anything else.

Still we still had a fantastic time from the outside and got some marvellous views not rivalled inside so all is not lost. It is however a shame that RIAT is now simply too expensive for many long time attendees who are effectively no longer needed.


I’m sorry, you have a valid opinion on the ticket price, but I really can’t accept that DBH is ‘greedy’. They are in it to make money for the RAF Charitable Trust. RIAT is the main income stream for the charity. What was it, £1.2m gifted to the Trust for 2017?

Here’s what some of the money is spent on....

https://www.airtattoo.com/the-trust/how-the-money-is-spent/grants-2016-17

if it was a fully commercial enterprise, aiming to make a profit for owners/shareholders, then you may have a point. Even then, I think it’s great value for what it gives you.

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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by FarnboroJohn »

Gonzo230 wrote:
DonaldGrump wrote:I do however agree with those calling DBH out on the admission costs. Yes it may well present reasonable value for money for an adult with kids whose admission is free.

For the lone adult or one with Mrs or older child it is a hell of an expensive trip. £110 for me and my 21yr old, sorry you are taking the p155 DBH. This year was i think my 29th Tattoo, I have been there as a paying customer including FRIAT I have been in FOC as a voiunteer with a participant. It is an event I look forward to every year and have only missed a few since my first at Greenham in 1979, Havent missed one this century!

Still we still had a fantastic time from the outside and got some marvellous views not rivalled inside so all is not lost. It is however a shame that RIAT is now simply too expensive for many long time attendees who are effectively no longer needed.


I’m sorry, you have a valid opinion on the ticket price, but I really can’t accept that DBH is ‘greedy’. They are in it to make money for the RAF Charitable Trust. RIAT is the main income stream for the charity. What was it, £1.2m gifted to the Trust for 2017?

Here’s what some of the money is spent on....

https://www.airtattoo.com/the-trust/how-the-money-is-spent/grants-2016-17

if it was a fully commercial enterprise, aiming to make a profit for owners/shareholders, then you may have a point. Even then, I think it’s great value for what it gives you.


Yes but if you haven't got it - but have a long history of supporting RIAT as an event and by extension (and probably consciously) supporting DBH's charitable work - and as a result of even mildly excessive pricing that supportive relationship that could have gone on for a lifetime has to be put on hold or even ends, its not just the disappointed punter that loses out, its also DBH, in the long term. Even a customer-supplier relationship needs a bit of nurturing. I'm sure that is always kept in mind when setting the next year's prices....

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captainfurious
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by captainfurious »

If you are happy and content to pay £25 for Yeovilton or Cosford it simply baffles me if £45 for an advance ticket for RIAT is considered too much. True Yeovilton and Cosford were bigger shows this year but RIAT is definitely worth more than £20 more.

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Brevet Cable
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by Brevet Cable »

Depends.....subjectively, both Cosford & Yeovilton could be said to be better than RIAT.
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Witchcraft24
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Re: The future of RIAT

Post by Witchcraft24 »

It can be easy to get caught up in the negativity of the echo chamber that is this forum. Even if there are 100 dissenting voices on here, that is 0.06% of those that attended this year's RIAT.

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