RIAT 2019 - Issues

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G-CVIX
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RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by G-CVIX »

Mods, if you feel that this is inappropriate, please delete as appropriate.

As was suggested, to save clogging up the feedback thread (when it appears), I know a few of us would appreciate the chance to note the problems that we faced.

In no way is this intended to be a thrashing of DBH, nor is it in any way suggestive that I/we know how to run an airshow. I know that members of the RIAT team do read the forum on occasion and I hope this is taken in the intended way.

I had an overall positive experience this year, I love RIAT, and my feedback will reflect this.

Nevertheless, there are issues that I think the team could address to make the experience better in relation to the financial outlay that many of us make each year.

If anyone has anything to comment upon, go ahead, I will leave my comments until a later date. If no one has anything to add, well then DBH have done a great job.

Cheers!

Edited to add: Nor is it intended to complain about the weather, merely things that can be changed.

bobby 1211
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by bobby 1211 »

1.Getting out of the car park was awful.
2.The roads should be improved. There are huge traffic jams and holes in the roads although I don't think this this is RIAT's fault.
3.Ticket prices for Friday should go down ( The same applies to Sunday if it's going to be worse than Saturday again)
4.The RIAT marketing team should rethink their selling strategies.
5.DBH needs to make their communication towards the public better. There was a lack of updates on Friday about what has cancelled and what hasn't. Also there was no update on some static cancellations like the c-160.
Last edited by bobby 1211 on Sun 21 Jul 2019, 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FlankerPhoto
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by FlankerPhoto »

Some (relatively) minor gripes this year:

1. As mentioned, traffic yesterday was a bloody shambles, much better today though.
2. Marketing really has been horrendous this year, serious rethink needed for next year.
3. Static placement, particularly of the special schemed Danish F-16 & Luftwaffe EF. 2000 wasn't brilliant, sure there was a good enough reason though.

And on the topic of roads, outside of RIATs control unfortunately, would need to be referred to Gloucestershire County Council and I wouldn't go expecting a response of any usefulness form them.. :grin:

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rockfordstone
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by rockfordstone »

1 - the layout of the static just didn't work for me. the whole thing felt bitty and there was no continuity. i felt the Su-27 felt particularly out of place, and the F-15 was just sort of dumped there.
2 - the parking situation. yes saturday was busy, but there was hardly any marshals there, and those that were just stood around and chatted or didn't act. the issues were within the car park, not the road network. is it really hard to predict that 50k people may all leave at once.
3 - tents, windbreaks etc within 10m of the flightline. seemed to me where i was that it was fair game to dump a windbreak, tent, gazebo, or apollo rocket sized tripod close to the flight line. today we even had a group of blokes with step ladders not 2m back from the line. if you have a step ladder do you need to be at the front? i appreciate people want the shot and got there early, but there seemed to be zero regard for anyone else watching the show.
4 - the A400 flypast debacle. one pass? seriously?
5 - RIAT FM, just repeating the same interviews from the days before the show over and over again. nothing new.

i didn't hate the show, but it wasn't the greatest.

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BrawlerO
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by BrawlerO »

1. entry process (particularly Red) needs investigating and reinventing. It is unacceptable to make people wait in line for an hour or more, security procedures or not. (In terms of security you are creating a potential secondary target by having c.1000 people congregating in a small space. I could have easily ploughed through them in my car if I wished, without any guns/bombs etc)
2. Actual security checks are so random/half-hearted/token gestures that it makes the preceeding time in queue even more annoying/redundant. Also seems to differ from gate to gate/no consistency
3. Have a FRIAT member queue at every entrance, we can’t all get to Blue.
4. Weather in the UK is unpredictable but please stop the commentary pretending all is roses when it ain’t. When it’s pissing down, don’t refer to it as ‘a bit damp’. What people want to hear is facts not conjecture . And remember some people won’t be back tomorrow when the forecast is looking better.
5. Fire the marketing department. This year’s build up has been amateurish at best. The phrase ‘polishing a turd’ springs to mind on occasions. Eg. Blades/Atlas flypast.
6. General re flying display...Fairford is a BIG crowdline, ditch anything slow and small (eg.Grob) It is just a speck padding out the programme.
7. Don’t put the Reds on after 3pm if you want to avoid travel chaos.
8. Make the focus of Air Tatttoo 2020 about aircraft and aviation.

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Tmyers123
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Tmyers123 »

FlankerPhoto wrote:Static placement, particularly of the special schemed Danish F-16 & Luftwaffe EF. 2000 wasn't brilliant, sure there was a good enough reason though.


Eh? Seemed fine to me.

FlankerPhoto
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by FlankerPhoto »

Tmyers123 wrote:
FlankerPhoto wrote:Static placement, particularly of the special schemed Danish F-16 & Luftwaffe EF. 2000 wasn't brilliant, sure there was a good enough reason though.


Eh? Seemed fine to me.

Lovely backdrop of toilets and the wheel.. :grin:

UKAirshowTour
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by UKAirshowTour »

Telling everyone at the red car park to move forward to stop them encroaching the car park but all they did was form new lines along side the people who queued early. The Flying acts were very unbalanced having all the interesting formations on the Saturday

UKTopgun
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by UKTopgun »

Re the vulnerability of the red queue to a terrorist act, fully agree with the previous post. Did not see those concrete barriers this year either.

They realised too late that the queue would run into parked cars hence the request to shuffle up, basic bad planning I'm afraid.

That lady on the PA needs to go, either she can't read or is petrified at the thought of speaking to thousands of people.

Does the PA use George Bacon's CD collection? Boney M, Barry Manilow? I mean come on!

A bottle of coke cost 2.50 at some stalls but 3 at others, Riat you need to ensure fixed prices across the showground.

FlankerPhoto
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by FlankerPhoto »

UKTopgun wrote:Does the PA use George Bacon's CD collection? Boney M, Barry Manilow? I mean come on!

:clap: :lol:

Homer
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Homer »

I parked it red for the first time ever and I'm not surprised at the problems given they have two tiny entrances with the shuttle busses and other traffic crossing. No wonder it had issues, there's just too much going on there.

Apparently things got a bit heated somewhere in the queue, at least from the half a mobile phone conversation I heard.

But I have seen worse. And to be fair getting in wasn't that bad, we queued on base a lot but didn't have the miles of queuing through quaint villages with the feeling you have been diverted the long way round just for the sake of it which you do at green.

Security had stepped their game up by the time I got that far - about 09.30 and were doing a decent job of getting people through whilst keeping up the pretence.

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T6NL
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by T6NL »

Getting parked on Saturday in the Red Zone wasnt too bad this year, however waiting in line for an hour was as echoed here unacceptable. I guess that's why police officers were constantly monitoring the lines? We also had two dodgy looking types trying to jump the queue and then when they were sent back they were staring at everybody whilst wearing these Bluetooth earpieces. Flying was awesome though and I got out within 10 minutes straight after the Su 27. I always say to myself that the drive from Leeds, cost etc is worth it if at least one of the displays gives me that uncontrollable grin! The Viper did that for me this year. It was like watching Iron Eagle again as a kid! The 9G turn got the emotions rocking :rock:

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pbeardmore
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by pbeardmore »

When you think about it, the hardesat part of the job for RIAT is to get a decent flying display and, to be fair, year after year, they do succeed in having very decent star items. The weather and last minute tech issues with airframes ? really out of there hands.

The irony is that, if you look at feedback this year and in preevious years, they are weak in areas which should be relatively easy to correct. My main issue is with the marketing. If you look at the trend, IMHO, it has become childish and patronising. The punters don't seem to be treated like adults anymore. Its like going round to see my mum, "dont forget to wrap up warm, don't forget to use suncream, hold on to your brolley" etc etc.

Others have pointed towards the silly tweets, incorrect spellings etc etc.

The relationship between RIAT and the punters used to be much more straight forward, of mutual respect and down to earth. To be fair to DBH, they are part of a wider cultural/corporate trend where "happy clappy" spin becomes more important than actual content. (we saw this with the Farnborough shows towards the end)

It's a real shame as a Mig-21 display (for example) is as exciting now as it was twenty years ago. It sells itself. It does not need to be "sugar coated" with childish spin
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pete310183
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by pete310183 »

For me I had a fantastic show thoroughly enjoyed every single bit of it. We were in the Pimms enclosure as always the view was fantastic with an ideal location for take off and landing, still never fails to amaze me the hit in the chest you feel from a full afterburning take off, food and service in the enclosure as always fantastic and having walked the showground im ever thankful for the privtate toilets.

As for the showground I found it to be very well layed out with fantastic spacing which allowed for some great photo opps if photography is your thing but also clearly allot of thought in terms of placement with all the fighters placed together and hellos placed together etc, yes there were a few oddities such as the F15 but in reallity does it actually matter, well not to me no. The eye felt very pushed back and i must say i didnt even notice it so in my view good placement of this attraction.

In terms of flying as always a fantastic lineup with some great variation and some amazing demonstrations of both plane and pilot capabilities standouts for me were:

Finnish Hornet
US Viper Demo Team
Flanker
Mig 21

The surprise item for me was the Breitling jet team they were exceptionally well presented and professionally flown with always something going on in front of you. The blades i think also did a fantastic job and for me certainly did not feel out of place.

Parking was a doddle i was in the green car park, straight in and about a half hour wait to get off the showground but once out moved very freely, there did not seem to be the usual mass exodus after the reds as in previous years which im sure contributed to a slightly delayed exit, but for me i accept that 50,000 people trying to get out of a single place with limited exits is going to cause a delay.

On to the negative and none of these are at all really critisisms of the show:

The Reds, i absolutly love the reds and always have ever since childhood however this past couple of years something is really missing, i might be wrong and it may just be perspective however i feel like i have seen the exact same routine over and over again and unlike previous displays the current one just does not seem as dynamic with large repositioning gaps in the display which i dont get a sense of with the other display teams.

And finally (this is going to cause debate im sure but please take it in the constructive critisism manor that it is intended) I have always loved the build up to RIAT as much as i have the show iteself of which a key part to that has always been this forum. Quite frankly this year was a real let down for me, at times this forum has been childish and full of arguments between members whilst also very narrowminded in its handling of the show itself, i am not saying the points wernt always valid my comments here surround how these were handled. This forum has almost become viewed as how the facebook nutters group was viewed and is now known as the argument forum (this opinion is based on comments i see on other forums) like i say this is intended in a constructive manner and is a polite prompt to the mods that this really needs to be policied better in future in my humble opinion. As i say i always love this forum as part of my RIAT build up of excitement but at times really dragged me down and detracted from my build up this year.

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rdchawk
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by rdchawk »

Red was awful this year for entrance and exit.

Stewards telling people to cut lines and therefore caused more delays for people queuing correctly, the scanners didn't work, they either need better scanners or scrap this.

Didn't seem to be any traffic management from the car park to the main road and was a complete free for all.

Didn't think there were as many toilets this year and I didn't think there was much signage?
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pbeardmore
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by pbeardmore »

pete310183 wrote:
And finally (this is going to cause debate I'm sure but please take it in the constructive critisism manor that it is intended) I have always loved the build up to RIAT as much as i have the show iteself of which a key part to that has always been this forum. Quite frankly this year was a real let down for me, at times this forum has been childish and full of arguments between members whilst also very narrowminded in its handling of the show itself, i am not saying the points wernt always valid my comments here surround how these were handled. This forum has almost become viewed as how the facebook nutters group was viewed and is now known as the argument forum (this opinion is based on comments i see on other forums) like i say this is intended in a constructive manner and is a polite prompt to the mods that this really needs to be policied better in future in my humble opinion. As i say i always love this forum as part of my RIAT build up of excitement but at times really dragged me down and detracted from my build up this year.


It's a point well made but, to be fair to RIAT, it's a wider trend within the general forum and wider online culture (its not as if everyone is perfectly behaved on the non-RIAT threads) so perhaps a little unfair bringing it into the RIAT debate but I completely accept and, indeed, confirm the observation.
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Tmyers123
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Tmyers123 »

rdchawk wrote:Red was awful this year for entrance and exit.

Stewards telling people to cut lines and therefore caused more delays for people queuing correctly, the scanners didn't work, they either need better scanners or scrap this.

Didn't seem to be any traffic management from the car park to the main road and was a complete free for all.


I was straight in and out on Sunday. :dunno:

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rdchawk
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by rdchawk »

Tmyers123 wrote:
rdchawk wrote:Red was awful this year for entrance and exit.

Stewards telling people to cut lines and therefore caused more delays for people queuing correctly, the scanners didn't work, they either need better scanners or scrap this.

Didn't seem to be any traffic management from the car park to the main road and was a complete free for all.


I was straight in and out on Sunday. :dunno:


Shouldve mentioned this was Saturday
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Luigi
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Luigi »

I was on Saturday 20th at the airfield.
Travelling to and from the airbase was no problem at all for me. I arrived at 08:00 practically without seeing any queue , parked quickly and left at 17:23 staying only 17 minutes in a queue and was back in oxford (where I have slept) just 1 hr 25 min later. To me this was the air show with less traffic jam I've ever seen in my life.

Aircraft position in the static was maybe not perfect: I've missed part of the static (I've completely missed the F-4s!) and coming from the red zone, I have not realised that the static continued beyond the B-52. Yes I've seen the 2 C-17 further away, but thought that it was all. I found too many tents of the several shops and events covered part of the view. But I must admit that probably (or at least partly) it's my fault: I had not enough time to see the static b4 the show began and the F-16 taking off called me to the enclosure I had booked.

I had expected to see all fast jests put together and therefore not seeing the F-4s close to the other jets led me think they were not there at all.

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rdchawk
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by rdchawk »

One thing I want to add - think RIAT has too many enclosures now on the crowd line, any gaps in the enclosures were absolutely rammed pack by the public trying to get somewhere without a big tent blocking views.
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81TFW
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by 81TFW »

Biggest issue for me was the layout of the static - or should I say the random scattering of aircraft throughout the market stalls and fairground. I'd be happy to pay an increased admission price if it meant getting rid of the non aviation related tat stalls. Very difficult to get photos of the static without parked cars and vans, stalls, ice cream vans, ferris wheel etc in the background.

And then there was the positioning of the individual aircraft. It was impossible to get round the back of the Phantoms to photograph the tail artwork for instance. As for shots of the Harriers or the Lancer, well at least they were on the public side of the runway but that's the only good thing that I can say.

The theme: I can remember when 'Twenty Five Years Of The Hercules' meant 25 C-130s in a (very long) row (1979 I believe). I know we're not going to get aircraft in those numbers, but when was the last time you saw anything flying or in the static that was specifically related to the theme? What was there space related you could see this year? (Apart from a banner on the Pakistan AF C-130?) If you're going to have a theme, make it one you can get obvious exhibits for - and then make it obvious why these exhibits relate to the theme.

As has been said, in some ways RIAT has become a family day out with aircraft. They static felt almost secondary to its surroundings. I've been going to Air Tattoos since the Greenham Common days (with some gaps) and I haven't been for a couple of years. The drowning of the aircraft by the ever encroaching tide of the market stalls and other elements is much more obvious than it was.

Luke28
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Luke28 »

81TFW wrote:but when was the last time you saw anything flying or in the static that was specifically related to the theme?


Yesterday.

Luigi
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Luigi »

Let's say that DBH could have placed in the internet site a map with the position of all aircraft.
and the flight exhibition program I had to buy for 2£. well 2£ it's a joke compared to what I have spent for this journey, but if I pay 47£ ticket and other almost 100£ for an enclosure, I think I can expect to have a program for free.
Am I wrong?
Or offer a ticket for 49£ and give me the program without asking for additional money so I've the impression I get it for free.

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The Baron
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by The Baron »

I had no problems at all getting in and out of the Green car park. Straight in both days and out in fifteen minutes.
Static parking. There just isn't much that can be done about the positioning of some aircraft. Everyone needs toilets. However, the F-15 and Slovak C-27J were strangely placed. I thought it was good seeing the Su-27 parked with the other fighters so no issue there.
Radio. Just bad. I remember the days of Wings Radio, not the sort of dross that gets pumped out now.
Stalls. The number of aviation related stalls gets smaller every year.
Marketing. Dire. It feels like the PR was lead by a team of sixteen year olds. Needs a massive revamp for next year.
Flying programme. I only watched the Saturday only displays on Saturday. Sunday started well and ended well but the middle bit was very slow, and so much grey!
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pbeardmore
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by pbeardmore »

Re the themes, it's as if they come up with the themes and then try to work out what they can do:

"Space, space, space,..any ideas?"

"Anyone?...anyone?"

"How about Buzz Aldrin and Rachel Riley...in a tent"

"Bit expensive?"
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”

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