RIAT 2019 - Issues

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pbeardmore
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by pbeardmore »

All fair points: it all comes down to good management. I have seen organisations treat volunteers very well (offering trainingn and experience which is valuable) and I have also seen the goodwill of volunteers exploited as cheap labour and also putting then "out of their depth" re their responsibilities.

Bottom line is that you want all the roles to be filled by competant staff (volunteer, contract or employee) and I don't think that is the case with RIAT.
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vbombers2
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by vbombers2 »

HMS Seahawk wrote:
vbombers2 wrote:Have to say that I enjoyed the flying program, shame about Friday but we got an E-3A flypast so it wasn't all bad. Kudos to the A400M display team for stepping up when it seemed that nothing was going to be flying. On Saturday and Sunday the highlights for me were the Mig-21 and Flanker, F-18's were both superb and good to see the Spartan back to it's old tricks.

The static did seem a bit hemmed in by showground related crap but I think this is an unfortunate consequence of an event which needs to cater to non-aviation enthusiasts. You only had to see how many people were out browsing the stalls when displays were on, seems odd to me that folk aren't paying attention to what's in the air but there you go. They could have made better use of the Green end though, I'm sure they've used that area for static previously and there's nothing else to ruin the background.

Main gripe for me was the individuals I was sat with in the FRIAT grandstand. Just obnoxious, ignorant people, when not picking their noses and wiping it on their leg (urgh) or belching, I had to listen to them slagging off the Americans. Apparently they thought the Viper display was crap (despite walking back to their seat partway through, disturbing everyone) and actually went onto social media to say so. One of them clearly said 'I hate Yanks' and then followed it up by saying the CV22 was 'pointless' and they couldn't understand why the Americans would design an aircraft like that. Eventually I decamped to the front of the grandstand to get away from it. Thanks Christ they didn't go on Friday or Monday, seems a waste of their MACH 2 ticket but I was relieved.



Never heard or saw anything like you did in the FRIAT enclosure, where were you sitting before you moved?


I was in row H in the 160's. I've never seen people behave like that before, I've been bashed with lens plenty of times but I sort of expect that. I wonder if they won the tickets?

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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by HMS Seahawk »

vbombers2 wrote:
HMS Seahawk wrote:
vbombers2 wrote:Have to say that I enjoyed the flying program, shame about Friday but we got an E-3A flypast so it wasn't all bad. Kudos to the A400M display team for stepping up when it seemed that nothing was going to be flying. On Saturday and Sunday the highlights for me were the Mig-21 and Flanker, F-18's were both superb and good to see the Spartan back to it's old tricks.

The static did seem a bit hemmed in by showground related crap but I think this is an unfortunate consequence of an event which needs to cater to non-aviation enthusiasts. You only had to see how many people were out browsing the stalls when displays were on, seems odd to me that folk aren't paying attention to what's in the air but there you go. They could have made better use of the Green end though, I'm sure they've used that area for static previously and there's nothing else to ruin the background.

Main gripe for me was the individuals I was sat with in the FRIAT grandstand. Just obnoxious, ignorant people, when not picking their noses and wiping it on their leg (urgh) or belching, I had to listen to them slagging off the Americans. Apparently they thought the Viper display was crap (despite walking back to their seat partway through, disturbing everyone) and actually went onto social media to say so. One of them clearly said 'I hate Yanks' and then followed it up by saying the CV22 was 'pointless' and they couldn't understand why the Americans would design an aircraft like that. Eventually I decamped to the front of the grandstand to get away from it. Thanks Christ they didn't go on Friday or Monday, seems a waste of their MACH 2 ticket but I was relieved.



Never heard or saw anything like you did in the FRIAT enclosure, where were you sitting before you moved?


I was in row H in the 160's. I've never seen people behave like that before, I've been bashed with lens plenty of times but I sort of expect that. I wonder if they won the tickets?


I was in row B at the other end of the stand and everyone was good, just the occasional person entering or leaving the stand when aircraft were coming past. I have been attending for a good number of years and never had or seen any serious issues with anyone in the enclosure that I can recall. My sympathies to you.

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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by boff180 »

pbeardmore wrote:All fair points: it all comes down to good management. I have seen organisations treat volunteers very well (offering trainingn and experience which is valuable) and I have also seen the goodwill of volunteers exploited as cheap labour and also putting then "out of their depth" re their responsibilities.

Bottom line is that you want all the roles to be filled by competant staff (volunteer, contract or employee) and I don't think that is the case with RIAT.


I can tell you for a fact that volunteers have to apply for the specialist teams/roles when positions come available much like applying for a job. You have to prove what you can bring to the team and what skills you have, usually via an application form and telephone interview before you are offered a post. You're then given job specific training if needed, general volunteer training and driving tests.etc as necessary.

It really isn't a case of "I want to volunteer please" and them saying "ok", far from it. DBH treat its volunteers well and in return we do our jobs for long hours to the best of our ability. Show days we were on airfield at 0630 and didn't leave until around 2000 - for many other teams the day started much earlier and finished much later.

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ikarus
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by ikarus »

Okay here we go , I've donned my tin hat and flak jacket .......... having attended RIAT for in excess of 20 years as previous FRIAT Members but haven't been "FRIATers" for the past 3 years , sadly got caught with the previous couple of "FRIAT early sell out frenzies" and missed the purchasing opportunities so have just stuck with the individual day tickets for the past 3 years. I wont purchase FRIAT tickets unless I know something out of the norm is displaying that makes the total costs viable , having to factor in long distance travel and accommodation for 3 or 4 days .Initially bought the Sat/Sun tickets this year , and then at the very last minute (48 hrs) this year purchased Friday tickets as well , based on the assumption much of the NATO flypast stuff might be logically parked in the underused Pit Area alongside the Voyager ..... what a total let down , ramp area wasted , possible photo opportunities missed , the Friday show was a total deflation and a "rip off" in all respects.

The static had lots of "space" (wasn't that one of the themes). The statics parked in an un-photogenic fashion and somewhat of a shambles -my personal opinion (allowed on a forum). The NATO flypast was somewhat underwhelming after the hype - personally I'd rather have seen the equipment in the static instead.

Why was the tiger striped Puma hidden in the RAF Village surrounded by clutter - deserved a place in the static rows.

Having previously stopped at the same hotel in Lechlade for the period previously (at least 12 years ) but since the RAF 100th show haven't due to the hotel owner taking the rip by constantly hiking prices , we've found alternative and cheaper accommodation. This now means we approach from the North West and use Green as opposed Red route. No major issues getting in or out , Green Entrance security appeared slick and organised and entry in the vehicle pretty straight forward. Not wanting to get caught in the exit debacle on each day we left around 15:00 , happy to have caught most of the aircraft on the deck or in the air that We wanted SU27 and Mig 21dependant on the running order on the day. A sacrifice for the display but we had a distance to travel.

Interesting comments about activity/attitudes in the FRIAT Enclosure .Must say I do miss the "old days" in FRIAT when folk that wandered around during anything flying or taxi-ing - got a massive verbal bollo..king from the seated areas and told to "get down" by all the folk with cameras , the culprits looked like rabbits in headlights when it happened , and that chap that used to wear the Generals Hat in the stand always provided some amusement/entertainment - I think he's passed away now. Always amazed by the number of people that bought FRIAT tickets but spent all of the time seemingly wandering around with beer and barms in hand in the enclosure , cameras and lenses round the neck but frequently missed the aircraft due to not being in the stand.

Sadly missed some of the semi regular Air Arms who didn't make it this year - Japan , New Zealand , Australia , Poland , Estonia etc. Thanks to the other countries who supported - this event would not survive without that support.

Will be back next year for sure - but please sort out the static placements , I attend to take photo's and watch the air display not to purchase non related paraphernalia . If RIAT can get it's "mojo" back which it appears to have lost We may even be tempted to purchase FRIAT again :lol: .

Thanks for all the effort by the DBH folks and staff at the show this year - it was good in most respects but certainly not a "classic" show.

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harkins
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by harkins »

I'm another who feels the standards in the FRIAT enclosure are on a downward curve. I didn't see anything shocking but, people coming and going during displays is now rife. It's not even like they try to do it with minimal fuss (as I acknowledge that it's not always easy getting in and out between acts), many just seem to crash through with an air of get out of my way.

Also, the amount of litter in the stands feels like it's increasing. I'm always amongst the last out each day and I'm disappointed by it as I believe there should be absolutely zero litter in that stand.

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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by FlankerPhoto »

harkins wrote:I'm another who feels the standards in the FRIAT enclosure are on a downward curve. I didn't see anything shocking but, people coming and going during displays is now rife. It's not even like they try to do it with minimal fuss (as I acknowledge that it's not always easy getting in and out between acts), many just seem to crash through with an air of get out of my way.

Also, the amount of litter in the stands feels like it's increasing. I'm always amongst the last out each day and I'm disappointed by it as I believe there should be absolutely zero litter in that stand.

:clap:

Noticed a distinct amount of people popping up in random seats this year too, often halfway across the grandstand from their allocated..

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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Spotty_Jag »

ikarus wrote:Why was the tiger striped Puma hidden in the RAF Village surrounded by clutter - deserved a place in the static rows.

In RIAT's defensive, I'm fairly confident that the RAF might have dictated to them that they wanted the Puma in the RAF Village rather than vice-versa.

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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by henk99 »

Had a great weekend again in the FRIAT enclosure. My issues are minor I think, but perhaps worth mentioning anyway:

1. Exiting the blue car park was crazy on Saturday. I cannot believe that they had no people managing the queues in some way. Now everybody just drove diagonally across the fields and then come to a halt at the only exit point on topfield rd. Sorry, but how hard can it be to post a few people at key intersections of the temporary tracks that simply let 10-20 cars go through from one side, then same at the next....and so forth. Seen it work many, many times at other large events. The thing is, that if people see things are under control...or at least managed, and things are moving....they don't tend to take things in their own hands, and don't have to drive like maniacs across the fields.

2. On Monday I got really annoyed by a couple of elderly men at the disabled section in front of the FRIAT stand. It was not an issue for myself as they didn't bother me personally. It was more the fact that they didn't care at all about the people that are in there for a reason and need the space to move around. Apparently they had a friend in there that was supposed to be there, and the three of them just wandered in and were standing with him almost the whole time to either chat or look at the aircraft lining up. They were using old cameras...film type and had all their lenses laying on the ground close to the entry of the area. What was annoying about it was the fact that a guy that was depending on his electric cart had to drive around them a number of times and could barely pass by. Apparently none of them had any clue that they were blocking his way and didn't seem to think that they were not supposed to be there. I remember clearly that in previous years this area was occasionally 'policed' to see if the people in there really were supposed to be there.
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Wissam24 »

harkins wrote:I'm another who feels the standards in the FRIAT enclosure are on a downward curve. I didn't see anything shocking but, people coming and going during displays is now rife. It's not even like they try to do it with minimal fuss (as I acknowledge that it's not always easy getting in and out between acts), many just seem to crash through with an air of get out of my way.


Some more regular announcements over the Tannoy regarding that aspect of etiquette wouldn't go amiss.

I'd also like to see "don't provide your own running commentary, we've already got one" added to it. Utterly insufferable.
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Tom105 »

On the point above it would be nice if we could actually hear the showground commentary within FRIAT as from where i was i couldn't and it certainly adds to the displays
Thomas

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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Wissam24 »

Tom105 wrote:On the point above it would be nice if we could actually hear the showground commentary within FRIAT as from where i was i couldn't and it certainly adds to the displays


Every year it seems to drop out for a while. This year, where I was sat certainly, it was awfully loud, I was using my earplugs to make it quieter.
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Domvickery »

Wissam24 wrote:
I'd also like to see "don't provide your own running commentary, we've already got one" added to it. Utterly insufferable.


This. Oh dear lord this, I have eyes I can see whats lined up, I can see whats ‘rolling’ etc etc it doesnt need to be shouted out every movement
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Chrisse »

Domvickery wrote:
Wissam24 wrote:
I'd also like to see "don't provide your own running commentary, we've already got one" added to it. Utterly insufferable.


This. Oh dear lord this, I have eyes I can see whats lined up, I can see whats ‘rolling’ etc etc it doesnt need to be shouted out every movement


This!

Probably the same people moaning at Youtube videos (or even during the show itself) they prefer to hear the engine sound. Well, they are one of the reasons (along with display music) you have to edit video with music and without location sound.

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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Stagger2 »

Very familiar with the Red Entrance. Car-Park access fine & egress Friday easy :whistle: & Sunday bearable! My questions to DBH are:-
[1] Why load-out the backend of the daily flying schedules with top drawer items thereby guaranteeing a mass exodus after these acts?
[2] Why, when you have knowledge of the number of attendees do you not arrange for more lines in the security tents.
[3] Why is it necessary to restrict the exit point (Red Gate seen) to one line when there is nothing in the tent, especially on the Sunday? It causes a pinch-point & distress for those with mobility issues as the surge of people from behind knock them off-balance.
[4] What is the value of the Security Screening? There appeared to be nobody doing any attitude profiling in the queues & the wand results were a joke! I saw security checking the contents of a Ladies' handbag, but they took one look at my folding trolley-cart maxed-out on loading & waved us through! 100kg capacity is not to be sniffed at when half of it is PE.?
I thought, where are the sniffer Dogs? :shock:
[5] Why no chicane in the Red Carpark to Entrance pedestrian access. Dead easy to put in a 2 car wide jink to prevent a straight line acceleration into the annoyingly large queue of a 1000 innocent people waiting to get in. Blatant opportunity for anybody from climate freaks to Radicals wishing to make a point?
Don't really hold out too much hope, nothing much changed after last years suggestions, except perhaps for not rebooking has-been music Artistes? :sick:

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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Chrisse »

Stagger2 wrote:I thought, where are the sniffer Dogs? :shock:


Well, as some people witnessed at Kecskemet 2013 (hopefully not as the 'victim'), sniffer dogs could be the end of quite a few packed lunches :grin:

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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by phreakf4 »

I would like to see RIAT get rid of all the "unnecessary", "non-aviation" "tat stalls" and non-aviation "attractions" and then see all the howls of outrage on here when there is a massive increase in the ticket price to recover the lost revenue. That's assuming that the show actually goes ahead without that income......

Perhaps worth remembering that the "tat stalls" pay far more than the price of your ticket to be there.....
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Dakotaman »

FlankerPhoto wrote:
harkins wrote:I'm another who feels the standards in the FRIAT enclosure are on a downward curve. I didn't see anything shocking but, people coming and going during displays is now rife. It's not even like they try to do it with minimal fuss (as I acknowledge that it's not always easy getting in and out between acts), many just seem to crash through with an air of get out of my way.

Also, the amount of litter in the stands feels like it's increasing. I'm always amongst the last out each day and I'm disappointed by it as I believe there should be absolutely zero litter in that stand.

:clap:

Noticed a distinct amount of people popping up in random seats this year too, often halfway across the grandstand from their allocated..


Noticed a lot of that plus tickets being used by multiple people... :whistle:

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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Sabrina »

pbeardmore wrote:Something else to consider is how many customer facing staff really care about the event. I get the impression they are min wage workers brought in via agencies and have no emotional stake re the success of the event.


A post of staggering ignorance and a view which bears no resemblance whatsoever to the staff that I encountered consistently across the 4 days that I attended this year.

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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by jasonT1981 »

FlankerPhoto wrote:
harkins wrote:I'm another who feels the standards in the FRIAT enclosure are on a downward curve. I didn't see anything shocking but, people coming and going during displays is now rife. It's not even like they try to do it with minimal fuss (as I acknowledge that it's not always easy getting in and out between acts), many just seem to crash through with an air of get out of my way.

Also, the amount of litter in the stands feels like it's increasing. I'm always amongst the last out each day and I'm disappointed by it as I believe there should be absolutely zero litter in that stand.

:clap:

Noticed a distinct amount of people popping up in random seats this year too, often halfway across the grandstand from their allocated..


Happened in the Viewing Village grandstand too. A guy who didn't have a seat in the stands (was in Village Garden) found out his friends were in the stands and came up. Sat in somebodies seat who had got up to go do other things. Didn't seem too happy when the seat owner returned.

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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Mark K »

Wissam24 wrote: I'd also like to see "don't provide your own running commentary, we've already got one" added to it. Utterly insufferable.


So you must have been in FRIAT on Monday and had the same experience as me of someone providing a constant stream of everything going on. I think it was fair to say that everyone was getting annoyed with him and was ready throw him off the top of the stand! Clearly loved the sound of his own annoying voice

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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Wissam24 »

Yes those (two) were incredibly frustrating. But also throughout the weekend there just seemed to be folk happy to both repeat what was being said over the commentary or just provide their own.
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Brevet Cable »

Dakotaman wrote:Noticed a lot of that plus tickets being used by multiple people... :whistle:

Nothing new there, watching FRIAT members inside the showground on arrivals days passing their tickets through the fence for their friends to use used to be a common occurrence.

What's to stop people printing-off a few copies of their tickets & dishing them out to family/friends with instructions to leave about an hour between each use ( and if questioned, tell them to claim they popped out "to get something from the car" / "forgot to lock it" / any other plausible excuse ).....or do some already do that?

Concerts these days - which frequently see more people attending than RIAT does - often require you to provide proof that you are the named ticket-holder when you enter the venue, wonder if DBH will ever adopt this policy?
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by psquiddy »

Concerts these days - which frequently see more people attending than RIAT does - often require you to provide proof that you are the named ticket-holder when you enter the venue, wonder if DBH will ever adopt this policy?


And they usually give you a wristband which cant be removed without destroying it.
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Re: RIAT 2019 - Issues

Post by Tom105 »

I had to leave on Sunday to go out to the car, the friat badges cannot be scanned more than once in a day so they give you a stamp now which would make it harder now for people to reuse badges
Thomas

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