if we were in charge?

All you'll ever need to know about the UK's biggest airshow
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Adraruro
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by Adraruro »

There are a lot of comments on here which seems to infer a lack of understanding about the Friday of the show...

1. 5000 school children and their support network (teachers, parents etc) are invited to attend. As part of the attendance they get to learn about STEM (using the Stem trail) and the Techno Zone, RAF Experience and the static park - unfortunately there isn't a lot of time to watch the displays and they only are scheduled to be around from 10am to 3.30pm. Imagine trying to find the trail with 55k other people about, it'd be a nightmare. If it's the holidays, that simply won't happen will it as staff won't give their holiday up to help.
2. There is a huge amount of business performed at the show, military chiefs use it as a meeting and discussion venue - those 'VIP' areas are the parts of the show which are integral to which air forces and planes/helicopters turn up year on year. So I'd not knock it... you close the show on Friday and this all goes too. Imagine the conversations this year all tucked away in the warm and dry..!? (Sweden/RAF etc)
3. There is no pressure to buy a Friday ticket, only the Fear of Missing Out - if you don't want to go, or pay, don't. You'll miss out as we've seen previously, the F22 on sat/sun going tech and being grounded by the weather, the Friday display was pretty good! Other years we have also seen rehearsals later in the day too. So more than advertised. This year there was supposed to be a 6 hour display... that is more than most places will show. (normally 4-5h max.), plus there was the flypasts no other show can imagine putting on.
4. The new business club attracts a small amount of people, not sure the success yet but it offers things which can't happen over a weekend. That uses areas which aren't available over the weekend.

So as you can see, it is a bonus day for the geeks, spotters, anoraks, casuals. It'll be there for a good while yet and it doesn't wholly rely on outside people coming in. If you want to attend, do so at the price set, it is your choice, but please don't complain based on presumption and hearsay?? You're not entitled to, and it has never been marketed as a full day! What is being suggested takes away a lot from those who appreciate it for what it is (weather permitting).

If it bothers you, buy a Saturday ticket as they come out... volunteer... or by a FRIAT pass...

:surrender:

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pbeardmore
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by pbeardmore »

All fair points,

It's hard for any organisation to balance their roles. My assumption (happy to be corrected) was that fundrasing was the main role together with promoting the RAF and the wider armed forces. We know that 5000 kids are invited but how many come? Lets say 4000? thats a huge commitment re ornanisation and infrastructure and what does RIAT actually get back? It gets back the "warm and fuzzy" PR to say that it has given 4000 kids a free educational day out (not knocking that) but when times are tight, organisations tend to look to their core roles.

Lets imagine, instead, they got 4000 kids coming privately (ie non school trip), if the average adult brings 2 kids, thats 2000 adults paying £30 each, so £60,000 additional revevue plus some would upgrade to Cotswolds etc plus they would by food, tat etc (plus they would tell their freinds etc etc (all about the upward spiral)

Plus, they would be normal punters within standard infrastracture so no need for school liason, coach parking etc etc.

Kids can still be educated whilst with their parents - education does not stop when you step out of school. Its a good discussion but ultimately RIAT has to decide what it wants to be. I'm not conviced that they get any great benefit from the STEM stuff. Obviously, it could be argued that the kids have a free and great time and in 10 years, they will bring their own kids? So it' a long term strategy.
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boff180
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by boff180 »

Not forgetting that the RAFCT exists as a charity to benefit young people.....

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Wissam24
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by Wissam24 »

Image

Bored of everyone banging on about muh charity stuff when it comes to RIAT to be honest. Just do an airshow, take any profits and give them to the charity. If it starts negatively affecting the show (which it seems to be) then you're going to make me resent the charity. Great job
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MiG_Eater
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by MiG_Eater »

100% agree Sam.

Incidentally, I was a young kid at an airshow once and have a life long interest in science and engineering - not as a result of any STEM Activities, but as a result of the airshow.

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JackyRIATWilson
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by JackyRIATWilson »

pbeardmore wrote:Money off tickets to compensate for rain has been mentioned and its a great idea IMHO


This is a very bad idea. The airshow is run for a charity, and on the ticket, it does say the organisers are not responsible for changes due to weather etc.

MiG_Eater
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by MiG_Eater »

Yes, the idea of having money off for bad weather is absurd. The only way this would work is if the airshow was totally cancelled and an insurance claim could be made. This would spoil an otherwise good day out and also create an unsustainable increase in insurance premiums.

For the record - I had a really good day on Friday this year. There was plenty to see and do, and - some people may have forgotten - but there was a Harrier in the flying display!

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mavvymoo
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by mavvymoo »

MiG_Eater wrote:Yes, the idea of having money off for bad weather is absurd. The only way this would work is if the airshow was totally cancelled and an insurance claim could be made. This would spoil an otherwise good day out and also create an unsustainable increase in insurance premiums.

For the record - I had a really good day on Friday this year. There was plenty to see and do, and - some people may have forgotten - but there was a Harrier in the flying display!

I agree to a point. I think that the discount offered to Friday ticket holders is probably aimed more at mending fences over the cost v content issue and the rain is just an aggravating factor. I doubt there would have been similar refunds offered for the other two days had they been rained off.
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pb643
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by pb643 »

Adraruro wrote:So as you can see, it is a bonus day for the geeks, spotters, anoraks, casuals. It'll be there for a good while yet and it doesn't wholly rely on outside people coming in. If you want to attend, do so at the price set, it is your choice, but please don't complain based on presumption and hearsay?? You're not entitled to, and it has never been marketed as a full day! What is being suggested takes away a lot from those who appreciate it for what it is (weather permitting).

If it bothers you, buy a Saturday ticket as they come out... volunteer... or by a FRIAT pass...

:surrender:


I may be missing your point? But I'm not sure that it is fair to suggest that anybody who has paid the price to attend an event, has no right to complain, particularly when the cost was as substantial as it was this year on Friday. I personally buy a Friday ticket because it is not worth travelling 150 miles for Saturday only.

Before it was possible to get on to the airfield on Friday, I came down to see the arrivals in the park and view. I haven't missed a Friday since 1989. (I think it was £5 per car full then?)

That doesn't mean that I like to feel like I am being taken for granted and ripped off, which is how I felt this year. Which is a shame, as I have always enjoyed the Fridays more than any other days. (less so last year)

If I choose not to attend on Friday, then they will lose a ticket sale for Saturday also.

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CJS
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by CJS »

mavvymoo wrote:
MiG_Eater wrote:Yes, the idea of having money off for bad weather is absurd. The only way this would work is if the airshow was totally cancelled and an insurance claim could be made. This would spoil an otherwise good day out and also create an unsustainable increase in insurance premiums.

For the record - I had a really good day on Friday this year. There was plenty to see and do, and - some people may have forgotten - but there was a Harrier in the flying display!

I agree to a point. I think that the discount offered to Friday ticket holders is probably aimed more at mending fences over the cost v content issue and the rain is just an aggravating factor. I doubt there would have been similar refunds offered for the other two days had they been rained off.


But yet again this is a PR blunder. How will they not give the same discount in future years of the display is massive curtailed again due to weather? What if nothing at all flies?

Potentially, they've shot themselves in the foot by doing this, rather than admitting they'd got it wrong with the pricing (although I can see they're not about to do that either).

Can of worms springs to mind.

Interestingly, I notice from the programme that Richard Arquati is still the head of PR(and has been for what, at least 8 years, probably longer).

Given how, ahem, different the PR had been this year, I wonder what's really happened with it? It seems odd that there have been so many blunders slipping through the net this year.
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clearstone
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by clearstone »

Has the PR been different or the Marketing been different - two different 'departments' in the programme!

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CJS
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by CJS »

clearstone wrote:Has the PR been different or the Marketing been different - two different 'departments' in the programme!


Pretty sure he's head of both. I don't have the programme with me though so might be wrong...
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boff180
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by boff180 »

Correct, you are wrong :smile: :heyhey:

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speedbird2639
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by speedbird2639 »

Wissam24 wrote:Bored of everyone banging on about muh charity stuff when it comes to RIAT to be honest. Just do an airshow, take any profits and give them to the charity. If it starts negatively affecting the show (which it seems to be) then you're going to make me resent the charity. Great job


^^This

I don't care one jot that RIAT raises money for charity. When I'm handing over my hard earned for a ticket I don't perceive it as making a charitable donation - I see it as buying a ticket to a (hopefully) great airshow. If they are starting to move to the charitable aspect of it being seen as the be all and end all of it then the tail is starting to wag the dog and things will go sour very quickly.

@Adraruro - I disagree. If I've paid for a ticket to an event then I become a 'stakeholder' in the event. If that event is less than I could reasonably have been led to expect from the build up/ marketing etc then I, as a stakeholder, have a right to voice my dissatisfaction at the situation. I wouldn't expect anything to happen off the back of that as we all know RIAT never ever respond to the feedback they are given (either to the person providing the feedback or by making requested changes) but getting it off my chest might help me.

People who bought tickets for Friday this year deserve to be offered a free one for Friday 2020 because the fact that they paid a full days price to see about 4 items fly and nearly got trench foot should be given some recognition. It wouldn't impact on next years takings significantly as Fridays are always pretty poorly attended anyway.

The whole banging on about STEM etc for the Friday just smacks of the PR department flogging dead horse to make themselves feel better that they have managed to tick another HR box on the form. The kids will just see it as a day off school on the skive not a potential future career opportunity.

If Friday is about the kids and STEM and all the boring people in their blazers doing deals then the correct price for the truncated display would be about £25-30 not £57!

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CJS
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by CJS »

boff180 wrote:Correct, you are wrong :smile: :heyhey:


It happens occasionally :hide:
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IATthenRIAT
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by IATthenRIAT »

boff180 wrote:Correct, you are wrong :smile: :heyhey:



Why do people connected with the whole RIAT experience, give the impression that they have no need or responsibility to come forward and discuss in some detail the quiries from Many ticket buying public.
It is not right that all the good folk who have paid out in most cases hundreads of pounds to attend an event, then when they feel they have the right to ask questions from the organsisers, yet feel like it falling on death ears or not being taken serious enough.

I know all profits go towards charitable projects, but at the end of the day the paying public are paying for a service, its not a free event in good will or just a love of aviation, if it was then No one would have a right to complain.

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speedbird2639
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by speedbird2639 »

@IATthenRIAT

You are quite right and that post pretty much hits the nail on the head.

RIAT ask for feedback every year. Based on the threads on here I'm guessing the enthusiasts are broadly giving the same feedback but all we get are ferris wheels and more non-aviation related shopping.

The security checks are always a shambles with too few lanes/ staff for the numbers attending; the car parking and exiting which used to be well managed sounds like it has reverted to the old days when it was 'every man for himself' etc etc.

Now Boff is 'poacher turned gamekeeper' and has joined the volunteers team I don't think we have much chance of any comments critical of RIAT coming from him (which is, to a degree, understandable).

With the continuing marginalisation of the ticket buying public (can you even view the display from 'blue' now or is it entirely chalets for the blazers?) could RIAT evolve into a trade fair for air arms who meet to discuss 'shop' and the public can only watch from Totterdown or on a 'token' public day like Farnborough used to have? It might sound like reactionary hyperbole but if you extrapolate the way things have developed to date I don't believe its impossible.

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boff180
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by boff180 »

I don’t represent DBH end of the day - no volunteer does - and it would be wrong of me to discuss queries as if I did. I know for a fact the forums are read even if people’s posts aren’t replied to directly.

Similarly it would be wrong of me to dictate or even be involved in this sites coverage of the show or to stifle discussion on the forum.

I keep both separate but will make a comment (which was meant light heartedly) when a statement is made which is wrong or already the case :smile:

Anyway this discussion is about RIAT so please continue lol

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pbeardmore
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by pbeardmore »

It's a fair point re the trade fair discussion.Any of us mature enough to remember Greenham Common etc and then compare it to the current show can clearly see the increasing role of arms manufacturers, both in sponsorship and physically on site. This has clearly been a conscious decision by DBH. It's interesting to consider whether they will draw a line on the ellement of the event or let the trend continue. The danger being that, year on year, they come to depend on their funding to make the event sustainable so, eventually, it becomes a trade fair rather than an event for the public.
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Brevet Cable
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Re: if we were in charge?

Post by Brevet Cable »

speedbird2639 wrote:...can you even view the display from 'blue' now or is it entirely chalets for the blazers?

Yes you can, still pretty much the same amount of room between the fenceline & the various enclosures.....as it's always been, though, it soon fills up as that's where most of the spectators seem to head for.
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