Possible format for RIAT2021

All you'll ever need to know about the UK's biggest airshow
IATthenRIAT
Posts: 884
Joined: Sat 23 Jun 2018, 2:05 am

Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by IATthenRIAT »

I was chatting with a friend from the US who has been to a show over there - for the show to happen they had to make it a Drive In event only, when I asked him how this worked out he said they alocated a 20 feet square box for each car and within this square they could do what they wanted (chairs etc) they had limited toilet blocks with one person in at a time and cleaned by someone after each person, they even had a fast food van go round the show selling pizzas.
Just wondered if a similar thing might work at RIAT next year as a way to rescue the show, I know it would be a different set up from what we know and static walking would be out of bounds, but at least it would be better than no show at all.

cg_341
Posts: 1886
Joined: Sun 09 Aug 2015, 1:39 pm

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by cg_341 »

You didn't think about this at all did you?

User avatar
jasonT1981
Posts: 763
Joined: Fri 19 Jul 2013, 5:57 pm

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by jasonT1981 »

It would work for smaller shows like Shuttleworth.

The biggest show in the World? Not a chance. The traffic in and out of RIAT can be a nightmare, and many use shuttle buses or camp. Now try that with only car access getting in and out of Fairford and 100,000 people?

Never happening.

IATthenRIAT
Posts: 884
Joined: Sat 23 Jun 2018, 2:05 am

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by IATthenRIAT »

Just a thought as frankly the way things are going I cant see us Ever seeing a RIAT like we used to, just not possible with current restrictions, I fear unless thay change its format including making it much smaller with far less people allowed on site (in cars) I can see it ever opening again.
Feels like we have seen the end of the show unless drastic things happen to make it possible to open.

IATthenRIAT
Posts: 884
Joined: Sat 23 Jun 2018, 2:05 am

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by IATthenRIAT »

I will be interested to hear other peoples ideas..........im waiting.

User avatar
andygolfer
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat 02 Jan 2010, 5:31 pm
Location: rayne, essex

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by andygolfer »

jasonT1981 wrote:
Fri 18 Sep 2020, 9:40 pm
It would work for smaller shows like Shuttleworth.

Never happening.

That's almost exactly what Shuttleworth did for their first two shows this year. They allowed some movement before the flying started at the September event but until then it was stay in your allocated space except for toilet and food vendor visits. Fairly low key and mainly their own aircraft which probably saved fees too.

RIAT is totally different and how many spaces could they fit onto Fairford? Nowhere near enough for the number of visitors they normally get so the economics just wouldn't work and it would be a logistical nightmare. People would arrive in the queue a week before to try to get in the front row and then you have to ownder how long it would be before someone stuck up a ladder in row three causing a near riot rather than riat?
andygolfer
winner of Air-Britain photo competition 2019

GeeRam
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat 13 Jun 2020, 3:54 pm

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by GeeRam »

jasonT1981 wrote:
Fri 18 Sep 2020, 9:40 pm
It would work for smaller shows like Shuttleworth.

The biggest show in the World? Not a chance. The traffic in and out of RIAT can be a nightmare, and many use shuttle buses or camp. Now try that with only car access getting in and out of Fairford and 100,000 people?

Never happening.
And yet, back in the early days of RIAT, through the 70's and into the early 90's, that's pretty much how it worked at RIAT.
Drove onto the airfield, parked up, and sat by your car.
Security, and the proliferation of corporate hospitality along most of the crowd line put a stop to it.

There's no reason it couldn't work with reduced capacity and naff all corporate crap, and with no static and trade stalls, as you couldn't wander around.......however, it's more likely there will be no RIAT in 2021 imho.

IATthenRIAT
Posts: 884
Joined: Sat 23 Jun 2018, 2:05 am

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by IATthenRIAT »

GeeRam wrote:
Sun 20 Sep 2020, 1:38 pm
jasonT1981 wrote:
Fri 18 Sep 2020, 9:40 pm
It would work for smaller shows like Shuttleworth.

The biggest show in the World? Not a chance. The traffic in and out of RIAT can be a nightmare, and many use shuttle buses or camp. Now try that with only car access getting in and out of Fairford and 100,000 people?

Never happening.
And yet, back in the early days of RIAT, through the 70's and into the early 90's, that's pretty much how it worked at RIAT.
Drove onto the airfield, parked up, and sat by your car.
Security, and the proliferation of corporate hospitality along most of the crowd line put a stop to it.

There's no reason it couldn't work with reduced capacity and naff all corporate crap, and with no static and trade stalls, as you couldn't wander around.......however, it's more likely there will be no RIAT in 2021 imho.
Thank you for the reply, its nice of someone to try to discuss this, it was kind of my thinking as most of my visits were pre the corporate stuff.

User avatar
CJS
Posts: 7699
Joined: Thu 15 Jul 2010, 3:30 pm
Location: Hogwarts

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by CJS »

IATthenRIAT wrote:
Fri 18 Sep 2020, 9:57 pm
Just a thought as frankly the way things are going I cant see us Ever seeing a RIAT like we used to, just not possible with current restrictions, I fear unless thay change its format including making it much smaller with far less people allowed on site (in cars) I can see it ever opening again.
Feels like we have seen the end of the show unless drastic things happen to make it possible to open.
What, drastic things like a covid-19 vaccine you mean?

And why wait only an hour and a bit between a (vaguely) sensible post (this one) and the weirdly passive aggressive one that followed it? Not the best way to spark a discussion if you ask me, which of course you weren't...
With just the slightest bit of finesse, I might have made a little less mess.

IATthenRIAT
Posts: 884
Joined: Sat 23 Jun 2018, 2:05 am

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by IATthenRIAT »

CJS wrote:
Sun 20 Sep 2020, 7:26 pm
IATthenRIAT wrote:
Fri 18 Sep 2020, 9:57 pm
Just a thought as frankly the way things are going I cant see us Ever seeing a RIAT like we used to, just not possible with current restrictions, I fear unless thay change its format including making it much smaller with far less people allowed on site (in cars) I can see it ever opening again.
Feels like we have seen the end of the show unless drastic things happen to make it possible to open.
What, drastic things like a covid-19 vaccine you mean?

And why wait only an hour and a bit between a (vaguely) sensible post (this one) and the weirdly passive aggressive one that followed it? Not the best way to spark a discussion if you ask me, which of course you weren't...
Do you think we could try to have a conversation and keep it on topic without decending into unnecessary coments, I truly wanted to have a conversation with folks on here about next years show (if it happens) just chatting over what the changes might be and if it might need to scale back to a more basic show to keep us all in a safe splace yet still having an even to watch.
There was a valid post after mine about parking on the field like we used to, can we not discuss this please.

(With regards to a vaccine - I cant see there ever being one that would work effectively - to kill the virus off in people - they havn't found one for flu yet - it limits the affect on you if you catch it but it doesn't wipe it out stopping you from passing it on)

User avatar
Wrexham Mackem
UKAR Staff
Posts: 2262
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 4:46 pm
Location: Farndon, Chester

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by Wrexham Mackem »

Its a very difficult subject to have a discussion about - because I think the event either happens in its current format, or doesn't at all. Its been made pretty clear that without the corporate income there'd be no show, and that security demand that each visitor enters the show ground on foot.

However, its far from certain we'll all be still living this very strange life next summer. It's a while off. Fingers crossed, lets hope for the best.
its time to kick the tyres and light the fires

https://www.flickr.com/photos/151934326@N08/albums

IATthenRIAT
Posts: 884
Joined: Sat 23 Jun 2018, 2:05 am

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by IATthenRIAT »

Wrexham Mackem wrote:
Mon 21 Sep 2020, 9:01 am
Its a very difficult subject to have a discussion about - because I think the event either happens in its current format, or doesn't at all. Its been made pretty clear that without the corporate income there'd be no show, and that security demand that each visitor enters the show ground on foot.

However, its far from certain we'll all be still living this very strange life next summer. It's a while off. Fingers crossed, lets hope for the best.
Fair do's thanks.

User avatar
2e1var
Posts: 388
Joined: Thu 13 May 2010, 6:57 pm

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by 2e1var »

No point in a static line up if we are restricted to our 'boxes' so that would free up some space.
UBC-15X, 800XLT, 3500XLT, VT-225, Pro-2006, Pro-2042, IC-7300, IC-7100, Airspy R2
Sony a58, Sony 70-300G

User avatar
rockfordstone
Posts: 1044
Joined: Wed 14 Feb 2018, 8:40 pm
Contact:

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by rockfordstone »

IATthenRIAT wrote:
Sun 20 Sep 2020, 10:10 pm
(With regards to a vaccine - I cant see there ever being one that would work effectively - to kill the virus off in people - they havn't found one for flu yet - it limits the affect on you if you catch it but it doesn't wipe it out stopping you from passing it on)
a vaccine doesn't have to "kill the virus in people" or indeed stop you getting the virus, it just has to suppress the virus enough so that it doesn't put you in hospital as much as C19 does.
as you say, flu doesn't have a "vaccine" as it evolves constantly, but the yearly flu jab has enough of the virus in it to in many cases prevent it being as bad as it can be. C19 is probably with us forever now, any vaccine or treatment will be to make sure it is no worse than a bout of flu and can be managed without hospital treatment.

life will get back to normal, and RIAT 2021 is 9 months away so let us save all the doom and gloom until next year shall we
Last edited by rockfordstone on Mon 28 Sep 2020, 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
spellow3010
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed 17 Sep 2014, 1:12 pm
Location: Rugby
Contact:

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by spellow3010 »

With the current 'whack a mole' in and out deployment of restrictions, I would be amazed that a charitable event (with so much initial outlay to put the event on) like RIAT 2021 would even get off the drawing board.

Far too much financial risk just now with how things are. With the greatest of respect to Shuttleworth, it's a self contained site to enable spectator box parking reasonably close to the action, and it's an event that can use the lion's share of their own exhibits etc. Whilst damaging if it gets cancelled, I would imagine that the risks to them are relatively small in comparison with an international event such as RIAT.

I cannot for the life of me imagine that a 'socially distanced' arrivals day at Park and View East will even be a thing. I can't even imagine a 'socially distanced' FRIAT grandstand will even be tenable.

You've got to be realistic folks. I would be (pleasantly) surprised if RIAT 2021 goes ahead. But if nothing else changes, which is quite possible, I think you can forget mass paying public gatherings in the UK for the foreseeable future.

Every death is regrettable. But what is the current survivability rate... something like 99%? At what point do we stop hand-wringing and get on with our lives? The current 'new normal' isn't sustainable. It really isn't.

Flare Path
Posts: 3067
Joined: Wed 07 Dec 2011, 8:53 pm

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by Flare Path »

Would be helpful (towards the end of the year) to hear what the plan is for 2021 - with everything going on, it is unlikely (imo) a show like this is possible.

Myself included rolled over tickets for next year, as nobody knew what would happen (but also cautiously hoping things would improve). But the fact is things haven't got any better and RIAT has a very long lead time in any year - added the size of the event with everything required to make it work... I don't see how it can happen for 2021 and I hate to say it but 2022 looks optimistic too.

If they really believe the show can be held next year (which I don't think can be) then an update needs to be provided when the time is right. But if they're thinking 'well this doesn't look like getting any better for next year etc', then it has to be postponed indefinitely (potentially safeguarding the future of the event, rather than working towards something that can't be delivered?).

MiG_Eater
Posts: 1355
Joined: Sat 18 Nov 2017, 4:58 pm

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by MiG_Eater »

RIAT is the highlight of my year, every year, and its loss this year was a dreadful blow. The current evidence certainly suggests that Covid-19 is a seasonal illness and with numbers of Covid deaths now lower than Flu deaths - it really seems to me that the worst is over and its time to return to normal. If, then, we do lose 2021 as well I will be utterly heartbroken.

GeeRam
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat 13 Jun 2020, 3:54 pm

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by GeeRam »

MiG_Eater wrote:
Mon 28 Sep 2020, 6:16 pm
The current evidence certainly suggests that Covid-19 is a seasonal illness and with numbers of Covid deaths now lower than Flu deaths - it really seems to me that the worst is over and its time to return to normal.
Have you been living under a rock for the past 6 months...... :astonished:

MiG_Eater
Posts: 1355
Joined: Sat 18 Nov 2017, 4:58 pm

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by MiG_Eater »

GeeRam: nearly 1000 people died of Flu in August, around 500 died of Covid. The worst is over.

User avatar
boff180
UKAR Staff
Posts: 9081
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 2:28 pm
Location: Solihull
Contact:

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by boff180 »

The stats aren’t that clear.

The 1,000 includes both flu and pneumonia plus as the ONS point out, a death from Covid can be recorded as both a Covid death and a Pneumonia death causing double counting.

This isn’t just about the death rate it’s about the number catching the virus and needing hospital treatment - overwhelming the NHS over normal planned capacity.

The moment the NHS reaches capacity that is when the death rate will sky rocket as they have to start making the hardest choice of them all - who gets treated and who doesn’t.

jason82wells
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed 18 May 2016, 5:55 am

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by jason82wells »

Flare Path wrote:
Mon 28 Sep 2020, 3:37 pm
Would be helpful (towards the end of the year) to hear what the plan is for 2021 - with everything going on, it is unlikely (imo) a show like this is possible.
As soon as each RIAT finishes, the planning for the following year gets underway immediately so it would be interesting to know what they've done so far this year in readiness for a potential show next year. I think their go/no-go decision must be fairly soon tbh, not just for the participation but also financially - sponsors, stalls & all that kind of thing.

Personally I can't see there being an Air Tattoo next year, and if there was, would the restrictions even make it enjoyable to those who go year in year out? No static park, a reduced flying programme for sure (consider all the additional non-essential cross-border crossings, and the sheer volume of crew which would need to support any flying acts - I can't see governments allowing a lot of travel like that).

DBH can't up their ticket costs as some have rolled over to the next years show, but we know that getting 100k at the show is not practical - I don't know how much they make for charity each year but I wouldn't of thought the sums add up, it has to be viable for them, before we think/hope for anything else.

With a reduced number of aircraft, would it be worth having the normal arrivals & departure days, and even if it was worth having, you couldn't operate it as is normal because we're all penned into tight spaces, they'd have to have much wider areas & then more staff supporting it all.

Lots for them to think about.

MiG_Eater
Posts: 1355
Joined: Sat 18 Nov 2017, 4:58 pm

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by MiG_Eater »

Frankly, i'd be happy with anything, and would gladly pay over the odds for a poorer show if it helped to keep the show afloat.

User avatar
G-CVIX
Posts: 2021
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 7:39 pm
Location: SW/UK
Contact:

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by G-CVIX »

Some of the ideas in this thread are insane.

I can't see any RIAT happening with any sort of format changes beside extra sanitising spaces, and other basic hygiene steps.

The scale of the operation is just too big to allow for anything else in my opinion, and if they made some of the drastic changes people have mentioned in this thread, would it be RIAT?

Personally I do not see RIAT taking place next year. I really do hope I am wrong. RIAT is the centre piece of my year and something which is hugely important to me.

I do think we'll see some other shows next year, but I think RIAT is just too big.

It's quite gutting... attending airshows is great for my mental health and I've struggled this year.

If there's any positives to take, many big festivals are announcing dates and acts so at least some people are hoping for events to go ahead. I think we'll know in January.

IATthenRIAT
Posts: 884
Joined: Sat 23 Jun 2018, 2:05 am

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by IATthenRIAT »

Thank you for all the replies, It is a situation where it does seem unlikley for RIAT 21 to happen, this virus has caused almost the Perfect Storm - its the perfect way to affect so many people and destroy just about evey normal thing we take for granted.
I can not remember anything from my past having this amount of destruction on peoples lives - nothing in my lifetime has brought normal life to a standstill like this.

canard67
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 7:05 pm

Re: Possible format for RIAT2021

Post by canard67 »

I suspect RIAT 2019 was the last ever. Changes on the base and no doubt new senior USAF commanders who have not seen how the show fits with their ops. This Covid thing could not have come at a worse time. Hope I am wrong but I have a bad feeling about this.

Post Reply