Bruntingthorpe Closure?

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Paulish
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by Paulish »

rob68 wrote:
Thu 30 Jul 2020, 10:40 pm
Bruntingthorpe moments,
XH558 delivery
XS904 delivery
Tristars delivery in the dark
Standing mid way on the runway with the other Lightning, nose in air about 15' away, chute popping and dropping in front of us, the Lightning disappearing from view
Watching someone walking up to a Lightning after a run, getting too close and burning nose
Walking past a parked SU27 and going, meeahh, its just that again
Last flight of Nimrod
Last flight of VC10
Getting sponge cake from upstairs in the main building at the 1st Lightning photo shoot in 89 when you had to pay extra to photograph
For me it was the Lightning delivery flight. Also caught XR724 on last flight in to Binbrook.

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capercaillie
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by capercaillie »

rob68 wrote:
Thu 30 Jul 2020, 10:40 pm
Bruntingthorpe moments,

Last flight of Nimrod
Don't think that happened at Bruntingthorpe, not even for an MR2.
"The surrogate voice of st24"

FGR2
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by FGR2 »

Wasn’t the last MR2 flight the one down to Manston for the Fire Training School?

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Seahornet
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by Seahornet »

Paulish wrote:
Fri 31 Jul 2020, 6:46 am
rob68 wrote:
Thu 30 Jul 2020, 10:40 pm
Bruntingthorpe moments,
XH558 delivery
XS904 delivery
Tristars delivery in the dark
Standing mid way on the runway with the other Lightning, nose in air about 15' away, chute popping and dropping in front of us, the Lightning disappearing from view
Watching someone walking up to a Lightning after a run, getting too close and burning nose
Walking past a parked SU27 and going, meeahh, its just that again
Last flight of Nimrod
Last flight of VC10
Getting sponge cake from upstairs in the main building at the 1st Lightning photo shoot in 89 when you had to pay extra to photograph
For me it was the Lightning delivery flight. Also caught XR724 on last flight in to Binbrook.
Well speaking of 'last flights', the final flight of the Victor was pretty memorable, too...!
And as the smart ship grew,
In stature, grace and hue,
In shadowy silent distance grew the iceberg too....

Reds Rolling
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by Reds Rolling »

Seahornet wrote:
Sat 01 Aug 2020, 10:59 pm
Well speaking of 'last flights', the final flight of the Victor was pretty memorable, too...!
Maybe the salmon pink machine could flip flop it's way over the fence in one more 'flight' to freedom if things get too bad. :rofl:

AndrewW
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by AndrewW »

Hardly a surprise, but there is an update today on the official Bruntingthorpe website: the August running day is cancelled :(

https://www.bruntingthorpe.com/aviation

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Archer
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by Archer »

The VC10 team has had to close down the fundraising efforts. After a month, the balance was too low and it was not deemed prudent to continue. Donations will be refunded. If the VC10s are still at Bruntingthorpe on October 31st, the owner will be taken to court and he will have to remove them. If that happens, the scrapman’s axe may be involved.

GeeRam
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GeeRam »

Archer wrote:
Thu 20 Aug 2020, 1:25 pm
If that happens, the scrapman’s axe may be involved.
I would think that's almost a given in the circumstances......

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Tommy
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

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Wyvernfan
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by Wyvernfan »

Archer wrote:
Thu 20 Aug 2020, 1:25 pm
If the VC10s are still at Bruntingthorpe on October 31st, the owner will be taken to court and he will have to remove them. If that happens, the scrapman’s axe may be involved.
And that’s by Airfield owners who previously purported to be aviation enthusiasts, right?

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Archer
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by Archer »

No, by the new owners, who purchased the business and the lease on the airfield. The old owners were the Walton family and Dave Walton is still looking into creating a museum/storage area for the airframes that are owned by him. Unfortunately the VC10s are not included in those plans.

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Wyvernfan
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by Wyvernfan »

But presumably the sale was made by The Walton family without any guarantees for the airframes on site that are not owned by the Waltons being part of the deal?

It just sounds like the idea of a museum continuing there is an after thought rather than a priority - a surprising situation given that most of the airframes are running and in superb condition - at present!

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HeyfordDave111
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by HeyfordDave111 »

Archer wrote:
Thu 20 Aug 2020, 6:26 pm
No, by the new owners, who purchased the business and the lease on the airfield. The old owners were the Walton family and Dave Walton is still looking into creating a museum/storage area for the airframes that are owned by him. Unfortunately the VC10s are not included in those plans.
Ah, but i believe its been established that they are lease holders, not owners.

Either way, the decision to banjax the whole thing basically ruins what could have been the UK's premier museum / live museum, and with some marketing it could have gone from what it was ( a few months back) to something really special.
Now its turning into a 'husk' of past times.
Lord knows what will happen to some of the bigger airframes.
Got to love Russianhardware

106500
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by 106500 »

No matter how enthusiastic an individual may be, any privately held property, especially that owned by family groups must be eyed by relevant parties with utmost suspicion before relocating any asset there. Yes it was great for a long while and we have to thank Dave Walton immensely for that but, for example look at the determination by the Wellesbourne owners to sell up (fortunately frustrated for now). It seems to me that other family members merely saw the pound notes and it was an easy decision for them (I’d liked to have been a fly on the wall in the decision making meetings!) The determination not to relocate XH558 to Brunty by VTTS was absolutely sound and excellent decision making. The risks were readily apparent and they are to be congratulated. It’s appalling what is likely to happen to the VC10s and possibly other airframes - I can just visualise that chain link fence surrounding the Lightning hanger, horrible. Bruntingthorpe is now likely to fall into oblivion as just another car park and in the long term who knows, probably a housing estate or similar? Meanwhile, family members get to spend their money on who knows what.....

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Tommy
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

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Archer
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by Archer »

Making money from an aviation museum is not really feasible these days, especially with the limitations at the site, so the aviation side was always dependent on the business side of Bruntingthorpe doing well. As mentioned above, Dave Walton has done great work over the years but right now the commercial side of the situation has taken precedence over the historic/aviation side. There is a risk in basing airframes at a privately owned site, and although most of the airframes will most likely be saved, the VC10s are the ones left hanging in the wind. It is no use blaming anyone at Bruntingthorpe for that. It is no use blaming the owner or the group looking after the VC10s for that. It is just the way the cookie crumbles, however sad that is. We've had the pleasure of two taxiing VC10s since 2013 and the luxury of another stored VC10 but it may not be reasonable to expect all those airframes to be saved. Not unless there are people willing to put up the large amounts of money needed to own and run an aircraft of this size, and the availability of a suitable venue.

GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

Wyvernfan wrote:
Thu 20 Aug 2020, 5:55 pm
Archer wrote:
Thu 20 Aug 2020, 1:25 pm
If the VC10s are still at Bruntingthorpe on October 31st, the owner will be taken to court and he will have to remove them. If that happens, the scrapman’s axe may be involved.
And that’s by Airfield owners who previously purported to be aviation enthusiasts, right?
Yes, but the terms of the lease I believe state there are to be no aircraft on site. If they aren’t removed then they themselves will probably be facing penalties or action from Cox.

Unfortunately that’s business.

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sdad
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by sdad »

"VC-10s, Nimrod, Victor and Guppy" surely.

GeeRam
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GeeRam »

106500 wrote:
Fri 21 Aug 2020, 8:13 am
No matter how enthusiastic an individual may be, any privately held property, especially that owned by family groups must be eyed by relevant parties with utmost suspicion before relocating any asset there. Yes it was great for a long while and we have to thank Dave Walton immensely for that but, for example look at the determination by the Wellesbourne owners to sell up (fortunately frustrated for now). It seems to me that other family members merely saw the pound notes and it was an easy decision for them (I’d liked to have been a fly on the wall in the decision making meetings!) The determination not to relocate XH558 to Brunty by VTTS was absolutely sound and excellent decision making. The risks were readily apparent and they are to be congratulated. It’s appalling what is likely to happen to the VC10s and possibly other airframes - I can just visualise that chain link fence surrounding the Lightning hanger, horrible. Bruntingthorpe is now likely to fall into oblivion as just another car park and in the long term who knows, probably a housing estate or similar? Meanwhile, family members get to spend their money on who knows what.....
There was always going to be a question mark over the active aviation ops as David Walton got older, and the rest of the family took over more and more aspects of the business.

As a huge Lightning fan since a kid in the 60's, for me its a massive shame we've now lost them as active airframes now, after the loss some years back of '724 at Binbrook (another mad decision at the time in terms of location of an active airframe), which only leaves the T.5 at Cranfield, and being out of the loop somewhat now, is that even still active in terms of runway runs etc.,?
But of course its not really a publically accessible site like Brunty was.

Still, LPG kept them going for longer than the RAF did in service so not a bad run, just a shame it's all ended.

purple_95
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by purple_95 »

Lightnings are far from lost as active in the U.K, XR724 is well on the way to a return to ground running although work has been stopped until the social distance rules r.e. coronavirus are further relaxed, the T.5 at Cranfield XS458 has had an engine change and work continues to return it to fast taxing status, the two at Bruntingthorpe will continue to be kept serviceable and ground runs will hopefully still take place, we should not of course forget the Saudi Lightning at the Gatwick museum that continues to undertake engine runs, hopefully the Lightning will continue to stay alive so to speak for some years to come yet.

GeeRam
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GeeRam »

purple_95 wrote:
Fri 21 Aug 2020, 9:30 pm
Lightnings are far from lost as active in the U.K, XR724 is well on the way to a return to ground running although work has been stopped until the social distance rules r.e. coronavirus are further relaxed, the T.5 at Cranfield XS458 has had an engine change and work continues to return it to fast taxing status, the two at Bruntingthorpe will continue to be kept serviceable and ground runs will hopefully still take place, we should not of course forget the Saudi Lightning at the Gatwick museum that continues to undertake engine runs, hopefully the Lightning will continue to stay alive so to speak for some years to come yet.
Being able to ground run an engine, is not the same as 'active'.
So, that counts out '724 due to the fact there's no runways or taxiways left at Binbrook, and the same for the F.53 at Gatwick, and likely now the 2 x LPG airframes.
Glad to here that '458 at Cranfield is still aiming to be able to stretch its legs at least. Shame that couldn't be moved to Kemble?

GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

sdad wrote:
Fri 21 Aug 2020, 10:50 am
"VC-10s, Nimrod, Victor and Guppy" surely.
Comet more worthy of preservation than the 10s perhaps? There’s several other VC10s in preservation. That’s part of the problem for them!

The Guppy I think will be lucky to survive. Although there’s been a lot of work done to it, if you go aboard you can see it’s structurally “fragile” (it was also damaged last year when it weathercocked in bad weather too. Thankfully the tug - which it hit - was connected to the VC10 leaving only the Guppy damaged).

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Wyvernfan
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by Wyvernfan »

I had always hoped that one of the Tristars there would make it into preservation in the UK. Regardless of the fact that it’s not a British type - which some seem to hold against it, after thirty years of service in the RAF it surely deserves a place in our preservation.

GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

Wyvernfan wrote:
Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:20 am
I had always hoped that one of the Tristars there would make it into preservation in the UK. Regardless of the fact that it’s not a British type - which some seem to hold against it, after thirty years of service in the RAF it surely deserves a place in our preservation.
The problem is the RAF aren’t into preservation, bar the unique circumstances of the BBMF (who arguably bring in a lot of “good” for the MoD). The RAF Museum would be the ones responsible for gauging the value of preservation; unfortunately their site at Cosford isn’t the most suited for modern/large aircraft preservation (when was Cosford chosen as the 2nd site? 70s?). I don’t think their finances are brilliant. Social media seems to have a few adverts to “adopt” and aircraft.

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Wyvernfan
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Re: Bruntingthorpe Closure?

Post by Wyvernfan »

Agreed.... And yet Hendon CAN find the resources to recover the remains of a WW2 Luftwaffe bomber that barely resembles its original form.

So, are we to deduce from this that the RAF museum decided that the thirty years of stirling work of a modern day RAF refuelling Aircraft is far less worthy of representation than a wrecked German bomber?

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