Photography Ban at Lyneham??

[rig_pig_78]

Another reason, further to my previous post, today was the AOC's visit to Lyneham so security could have been up for him (although we were'nt told anything!) or the scuffer is looking for something good to go in his assessment!

[FGR2]

It was an RAF Police car, Focus or Astra Estate IIRC.

[Kokpit]

MOD Police (Jurisdiction)HC Deb 02 March 1999 vol 326 c655W 655W

§ Mr. Mitchell To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Defence Police Agency officers over civilians not employed by his Department. [73088]

§ Mr. Spellar In a variety of circumstances, constabulary powers may be conferred on MOD police officers in relation to civilians not employed by the MOD.

Under the Ministry of Defence Police Act 1987, MOD police officers have the powers and privileges of constables:

(a)on defence land and property;
(b) on land and property used by ordnance companies and dockyard contractors for naval, military or air force purposes;
(c)on land in the vicinity of defence land and land used by ordnance companies and dockyard contractors provided a police constable of the local force has asked for assistance in the execution of his duties on that land;
(d)on land in respect of which the Secretary of State has agreed to provide the services of the Ministry of Defence Police under an agreement notice published in the London, Edinburgh or Belfast Gazette; and
(e)in any place—
(i)in relation to Crown property;
(ii)in relation to persons subject to the control of the Defence Council or employed under or for the purposes of the MOD or the Defence Council; and
(iii)in relation to matters connected with anything done under a contract entered into by the Secretary of State for Defence for the purposes
of the MOD or the Defence Council.

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/written_answers/1999/mar/02/mod-police-jurisdiction

OK, now if I can find something similar for RAFP....

[mais01]

Sounds like someone was either bored or out for a bit of spotter baiting.
However they may have used the encounter just to check you out, i am not suggesting you have done anything wrong but you dont know what may have been said to them in short it could well have been nothing more than a quick fishing trip to satisfy themselves that you were not up to mischief.

Sounds to me it was handled well by you, no point whatsoever in keeping things less than friendly and polite.
Just put it down to experience and don't be put off by it, this sort of thing crops up every now and then but on the whole i think enthusiasts have a fair crack of the whip aroudn bases.
If encounters such as yours were to becoem a regualr occurance then there might be cause for soem concern, but i cant recall hearing anything like this before from Lyneham so hopefully it is just a one off.

[toom317]

First thing you do when anyone asks you for ID, is ask to see theirs. If its the Feds, then ask to see their warrant card. The great thing about getting someones ID, is you have their details, and they know it. :ninja:

[toom317]

First thing you do when anyone asks you for ID, is ask to see theirs. If its the Feds, then ask to see their warrant card. The great thing about getting someones ID, is you have their details, and they know it. :ninja:

Guaranteed to get their backs up. Sure fire way to having you/your bag/car gone over with a fine toothcomb...

They won't be doing it until I see their ID though, no warrant card no search. :question:

[Darren Currie]

First thing you do when anyone asks you for ID, is ask to see theirs. If its the Feds, then ask to see their warrant card. The great thing about getting someones ID, is you have their details, and they know it.

Guaranteed to get their backs up. Sure fire way to having you/your bag/car gone over with a fine toothcomb...

They won't be doing it until I see their ID though, no warrant card no search.

I agree with Dan - this will annoy them and they will move you along without doubt - I learnt this at Fairford in 2003 when the B-52s were there for OIF. 'Is this your car Sir?' My response 'No its a company car and belongs to Masterlease!' Stupid! They then proceeded to clear all cars from that side of the road although there were only two cars on the other verge! Even threatened to tow my car when I said I would not move it as there were no yellow lines

In an experience since at Fairford the police visited asked for ID and I co-operated. I am now registered with I believe Cirencester police and they have not troubled me since - even had a policeman tell me when the next movement (no jokes) will be.

I believe the US have adopted a scheme called 'Eagle Eyes' and realise that they cannot be everywhere all the time and encourage people to report anything they think is suspicious.

As long as you co-operate I think generally all is OK - maybe this guy had just been having a boring day and was trying to impress his colleague in the car! There is a scene in a movie somewhere when a security guard in a shopping mall gets a call when chatting to some girls! 'Just you watch me kick a**!'

[Batman3]

Iv had the same treatment 3 times in 2 or 3 weeks now. Each time it was because I was reported by someone. Id bet you were reported too.

[FGR2]

Possibly was reported by one of the locals, to be honest I only do the base thing once a year or if there is anything interesting going on. Just a shame that the first time in a year I've managed to get around to spend a day at the end of a runway, that this happened.

It doesn't bother me too much as I will probably now go just to airshows for my military fix. I live a distance from anything military wise, so if I go anywhere it involves a journey of over an hour to get there (usually an early morning start with the M25 to contend with). Travelling for 2+ hours to run into problems, getting questioned etc is just not worth the hassle.

Anyway, just thought I'd let people know of the situation down there and to keep the cameras away if you are in that layby.

Regards

[Bjcc]

Kokpit

The powers of the MOD police changed under an act passed in 2000 and something. However, what you quoted above, does give them power, by vertue of section e (1), Crown property.

RAFP have the same powers as a citizen, ie you. Offences under the OSA are arrestable by 'Any Person'. You and the RAFP have a duty to prevent crime, and therefore, they have the right to ask you desist, just as you do. Statutory powers of juristiction are therefore neither here nor there.

In respect of what Toom says, you can ask to see a warrant card, and should be shown it. As for any consequences of that, well, any search that may take place afterwards, will of course be assumed to be a result of that demand, but usually being outside an airfield taking photos will provide reasonable grounds for a Civvie/MOD Police officer.

Spicey Norman

As I said before, enforcement of any legislation is a matter for the Police Officer, or in this case RAFP NCO concerned. In the case of opendays, airshows, this legislation clearly is not used. That does not prevent it being used at other times. As for assuming it's being done for boredom, or to impress someone else, thats a rather childish attitude, given that it is pure assumption, and not backed by anything.

In general, whether we like it or not, and as I have said on the subject before, this legislation exists, and has for a very long time. We are in a better position than in years gone by, in that it is not often used now, that does not prevent it being used, whether that is for operational reasons, or even yes, just because someone can.

[Pen Pusher]

First thing you do when anyone asks you for ID, is ask to see theirs. If its the Feds, then ask to see their warrant card. The great thing about getting someones ID, is you have their details, and they know it.

Guaranteed to get their backs up. Sure fire way to having you/your bag/car gone over with a fine toothcomb...

They won't be doing it until I see their ID though, no warrant card no search.

I got stopped on camp for riding my motorbike on a footpath Two RAF policemen, estate car with full police stickers and flashing lights. First thing they asked me for was for my ID card. I asked them for theirs, as they didn't have them showing. Also on the main gate. Have to show ID going in. If the guard doesn't have his showing, I ask to see it.

Works both ways.

Perfectly alright to ask to see if the person in front of you is who they say they are. If they have a problem with that, then report it.

Brian

[TS010]

I got approached by two 'MOD plods' at Shawbury last month. Very friendly, asked for my details, checked the car over, then strangly asked questions about the low flying areas!
When the PNC check came back O.K. he said my details were on their list and if I was seen there again, I would be left alone.
Spoke to someone else about it and he said they were checking that I was not a press photographer, as HRH's are still training there, by asking questions that your average Daily Mail reporter would'nt be able to answer.

[jaguar]

I am off to RAF Cottespmore on Monday 28th I wonder if I will get the same results as you FGR2, lets hope there abit more relaxed up North.

Regards.

Paul.
CP Aviation Photography

[Spiny Norman]

I got approached by two 'MOD plods' at Shawbury last month. Very friendly, asked for my details, checked the car over, then strangly asked questions about the low flying areas!
When the PNC check came back O.K. he said my details were on their list and if I was seen there again, I would be left alone.
Spoke to someone else about it and he said they were checking that I was not a press photographer, as HRH's are still training there, by asking questions that your average Daily Mail reporter would'nt be able to answer.

Of course the best way to get pictures of the two HRHs is on base.

http://pa.photoshelter.com/c/iphoto/gallery/iPhoto-William-and-Harry-061809/G0000aVwVsLMru6M/

[MikeB]

I've just returned from RAF Lyneham, right before we were about to leave we had a RAF Police Car drive up to us (at 06) with a bloke driving a woman in the passenger seat (same ones as yesterday maybe?). Conversation went...

Officer: "What are the ladders for?"
Me: "To see over the fence"
Officer: *Mumble*"Your taking the piss"
Officer: "Are those big lenses?"
Me: "Yup"
Officer: "You do know that big lenses are banned from here..."
Me: "Nope"
Officer: "You need to put your big lenses away" (we did).
Officer: "Are you here for the Vulcan?"
Me: "No, the Phantom"
Officer: "Don't you have anything better to do with your time?"
Me: "Not really"

Seems it's gone from photography being banned, to big lenses banned...

[CH2]

BJCC; So not wanting to sound dim, if I am stood outside the perimeter of RAF wherever, on a public right of way, and the RAF Police turn up and say "sorry Mr CH2 you need to move along you can’t take photos of our planes landing on our base", and I reply, I am a free man and I can do what I want. Under the existing powers they could come over the fence and with reasonable force detain me, then hand me over to the local force or MOD police to be delt with.

Is that the case? don’t worry I won’t quote you as I am being carried off to the cells.

[LeeHathaway]

I've just returned from RAF Lyneham, right before we were about to leave we had a RAF Police Car drive up to us (at 06) with a bloke driving a woman in the passenger seat (same ones as yesterday maybe?). Conversation went...

Officer: "What are the ladders for?"
Me: "To see over the fence"
Officer: *Mumble*"Your taking the piss"
Officer: "Are those big lenses?"
Me: "Yup"
Officer: "You do know that big lenses are banned from here..."
Me: "Nope"
Officer: "You need to put your big lenses away" (we did).
Officer: "Are you here for the Vulcan?"
Me: "No, the Phantom"
Officer: "Don't you have anything better to do with your time?"
Me: "Not really"

Seems it's gone from photography being banned, to big lenses banned...

Yeah, very polite he was too

[KarlADrage]

When Skippy and I visited in May we were approached by a couple of members of RAFP - a lady and a bloke, really friendly, no problem with us being there, but they were uncomfortable with the ladders (which we duly laid down on the grass, where they remained for the rest of the day). They gave us the number for the Police Flight there and asked that if we were to revisit, that we give them a call to let them know (as others have said, we'd been reported by someone else).

Is it appropriate to post the number here?

[Pen Pusher]

I've just returned from RAF Lyneham, right before we were about to leave we had a RAF Police Car drive up to us (at 06) with a bloke driving a woman in the passenger seat (same ones as yesterday maybe?). Conversation went...

Officer: "What are the ladders for?"
Me: "To see over the fence"
Officer: *Mumble*"Your taking the piss"
Officer: "Are those big lenses?"
Me: "Yup"
Officer: "You do know that big lenses are banned from here..."
Me: "Nope"
Officer: "You need to put your big lenses away" (we did).
Officer: "Are you here for the Vulcan?"
Me: "No, the Phantom"
Officer: "Don't you have anything better to do with your time?"
Me: "Not really"

Seems it's gone from photography being banned, to big lenses banned...

Yeah, very polite he was too

An no one asked for his name or number or where it is written down that a big lens is banned?

From his attitude he clearly needs to go on a 'customer relations/dealing with the public' type course and if you make a complaint to the Station Commander he probably will.

Stand your ground in future and ask him questions, politely and not sarcastically, and if he starts getting stroppy make it clear that a complaint would be made against him, and if he has a problem with you being there ask him to call the local constabulary to move you on.

Brian

[Copper2]

Ah Mike you failed to mention we were banned from photog the pair of Greek F16s

Very nice to meet you all Today

[FGR2]

He was o.k with me yesterday, was quite polite. Maybe he was reading our posts here last night

He was using the term "lenses" to me yesterday, and to not use the lens. I was imagining that was his terminology for photography.

Interesting that this has happened again today, sounds very much like the same person. Maybe they are a bit more touchy with the F4 being there. Maybe there is something they don't want people to see on it.
Maybe they are more concerned with the bomb scare recently.

It does seem that the common thread here is that they are not liking long lenses.

Was this at the same layby?

[LeeHathaway]

Ah Mike you failed to mention we were banned from photog the pair of Greek F16s

Very nice to meet you all Today

It was nice to meet you too Rich

[MikeB]

An no one asked for his name or number or where it is written down that a big lens is banned?

I always find not arguing with them is the best policy. However on reflection I wish I asked for his name!

Was this at the same layby?

Nope, other end of the runway. He didn't ask us to move though, just put our "big lenses" away.

Mike

[FGR2]

He didn't ask me to move, he said I could stay but to put the "lens away."

I assume that is because he has no power outside the fence to move you on.

[MikeB]

I assume that is because he has no power outside the fence to move you on.

Doesn't normally stop them to be honest. I have to admit, all of Brizes and Fairfords RAF/MoD Police are fine. First time I've ever met one 'like that' to put it nicely.

Mike