SDSR - this post only

[Spiny Norman]

Thats not quite right. The first carrier being built now may still well be Cat and Trap its been looked into starting today. The second Carrier will be cat and trap from the start. Whether one is mothballed or not will depend on the situation in the future.

Or sold.

"Alternatively, we might sell one of the carriers, relying on cooperation with a close ally to provide continuous carrier-strike capability."
SSDR, 2010

[Wes_Howes]

Thanks again guys not too much work to alter the layout then

[Liveforriat]

Thats not quite right. The first carrier being built now may still well be Cat and Trap its been looked into starting today. The second Carrier will be cat and trap from the start. Whether one is mothballed or not will depend on the situation in the future.

Or sold.

"Alternatively, we might sell one of the carriers, relying on cooperation with a close ally to provide continuous carrier-strike capability."
SSDR, 2010

Yes or sold

[boff180]

As a little comparison of combat capability, I've just put this together using figures available online:-

BEFORE ANNOUNCEMENT
Current Strength:-
Tornado GR.4 - 133
Typhoon - 82 (Approx)
Harrier - 67
TOTAL - 282

Proposed Future Strength:-
Typhoon - 232
F-35B - 138
TOTAL - 370


AFTER ANNOUNCEMENT
Current/Near Term Strength:-
Typhoon - 82 (Approx)
Tornado GR.4 - 80
TOTAL - 162

Future Strength:-
Typhoon - 160
F-35C - 60 (most likely further reduced)
TOTAL - 220

Andy

[Liveforriat]

Thanks again guys not too much work to alter the layout then

Hardly any rework at all if they are sensible and fit the cat and trap on the first carrier now! The carrier was always desinged to be able to be retro fitted with a boiler based cat and trap system or one based on linear motors launch. Large open spaces for the equipment is designed into the structure with room left for cable ways and pipework etc.

The deck was always going to be a big job to refit - removing the "ski jump", repositioning the VLA (Landing lights and indicators), cutting trenches for the catapult and arrestor systems etc etc . Building the deck from scrath incorporating all of these things is far easier and so is geting the lumpier items of kit into the bowels of the ship before all of the build blocks are put together.

A lot of work went into getting the deck and its paint finish to be resistant to the hot exhaust of the F35B this is now not really relavant unless any allied nations with the F35B or the US Osprey are planning on using the carrier in joint ventures! This has made the deck cheaper and easier to manufacture and maintain.

The VLA System was extremly complex for the F35B as to enable it to bring back weapons loads it was due to perform SRVL(Short Rolling Vertical Landing) which required a complex system of lights and other Visual Landing Aids. This included a grid in the centre of the deck with cycling lights that the pilot would have to align with altitude indicators on his helmet system. This can now all go as the Conventional Take off and Landing VLA System is far cheaper and a lot simpler.

[stratocaster]

Just curious to find out how many Tornado F3's we had before they were/are taken out of service?

[24left]

Once upon a time there were 165 Tornado F3s ordered.

[paulb1973]

Once upon a time there were 165 Tornado F3s ordered.

152 in total I think (144 for the UK originally ordered and a furtherr 8, ZH552-559, diverted after a cancelled order).

The ADV Tornado stretched to 173 examples if you include the 21 F2's built.

[Binbrook 01]

There are/were about 5 F-3s in storage at Shawbury, and at least 2 involved with the Meteor launch trials

I think there are/were about 16 active jets left at Leuchars (hopefully with a few in reserve)? going on photos that have been posted throughout this year

Other than that Not many is the best guess answer.

TS

[chrisward123]

Harriers gone by 01/04/11, such a shame

[swingy]

Two questions.

1. did cameron say in the answer to questions yesterday there would only be 110 typhoons?

2. can part of the nimrod role be filled by UAVs?

[Liveforriat]

Starting to think the Harrier display we were given at various airshows this year was actually a farewell tour!

[Mad Dan]

For what it's worth, the announcement that Harrier is to be retired came just two days short of the 50th anniversary of the first tethered hover by P.1127 XP831. That milestone event took place at Dunsfold on 21 October 1960, with Hawker test pilot Bill Bedford at the controls... It's not tbe brightest and best way to celebrate a notable anniversary, that's for sure...

[JJC]

I thought they'd have at least let the Harrier do a farewell tour, afterall its possibly the best of the best of Britain!

Yet another significant RAF aircraft is retired without any celebration of its career.

What a disgrace........

Really will miss the Harrier!

[Hurn]

Starting to think the Harrier display we were given at various airshows this year was actually a farewell tour!

Yeah, really glad to have been at Dunsfold to see the Harrier one last time. I'll probably never ever see an aeroplane hover in front of my eyes again.
That said, I think ditching the F-35B was absolutely the right decision. I've never been won over by that fan system and all that it entailed, and as for the escalating price tag....

[timuss]

Would the RAF sell these to other countries??? Or dare i say the CAA allow one to live on the civil register

[duxfordhawk]

I thought they'd have at least let the Harrier do a farewell tour, afterall its possibly the best of the best of Britain!

Yet another significant RAF aircraft is retired without any celebration of its career.

What a disgrace........

Really will miss the Harrier!

Totally agree with you there.
I am shocked and disapointed that the government has chose to take the Harrier out of service. Surely its one of the most capable aircraft we have and offeres a flexability other airforces can only dream off. I expected the Tornado would cop a lot of the losses as essentially the Typhoon can cover its role, So this was a shock.

I can understand the Hercules as the A400 should secure jobs, The Nimrod seems ironic as much of the money spent anyway so why waste it?.
The aircraft carrier situation is a farce, Who has ever known of an aircraft carrier thats not going to carry aircraft for years to come? Pathetic.


Glad I saw the Harrier this year, and glad spent time at Shoreham to get a Harrier blowning away the rain from the runway, Sublime moment.

[timuss]

I thought they'd have at least let the Harrier do a farewell tour, afterall its possibly the best of the best of Britain!

Yet another significant RAF aircraft is retired without any celebration of its career.

What a disgrace........

Really will miss the Harrier!

Totally agree with you there.
I am shocked and disapointed that the government has chose to take the Harrier out of service. Surely its one of the most capable aircraft we have and offeres a flexability other airforces can only dream off. I expected the Tornado would cop a lot of the losses as essentially the Typhoon can cover its role, So this was a shock.

I can understand the Hercules as the A400 should secure jobs, The Nimrod seems ironic as much of the money spent anyway so why waste it?.
The aircraft carrier situation is a farce, Who has ever known of an aircraft carrier thats not going to carry aircraft for years to come? Pathetic.


Glad I saw the Harrier this year, and glad spent time at Shoreham to get a Harrier blowning away the rain from the runway, Sublime moment.

Yeah same here seeing it at Shoreham and Dunsfold as well as Biggin shame that was the last time

[duxfordhawk]

Did'nt dream that Shoreham would be the last time I saw one fly, I did not manage to photo the 3 of them on the ground there as the heavens opened. But I did get the shot I wanted spray wise.

[JAB]

Would the RAF sell these to other countries??? Or dare i say the CAA allow one to live on the civil register

At the last duxford airshow talking to someone from the RNHF he said there was talk about them having a harrier as they got harrier pilots in the RNHF.

I cant find anywhere saying they are scrapping the F-35B??

[GertrudetheMerciless]

I thought they'd have at least let the Harrier do a farewell tour, afterall its possibly the best of the best of Britain!

Yet another significant RAF aircraft is retired without any celebration of its career.

What a disgrace........

A disgrace indeed! Maybe we should make a few more people in the RAF and RN redundant to pay for a farewell tour! I'm sure all the personnel next summer waiting around to see if they're "on the list" would love to see it.

Priorities people.

I cant find anywhere saying they are scrapping the F-35B?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_191634.pdf?CID=PDF&PLA=furl&CRE=sdsr

Page 23, half way down.

[Manonthefence]

Did'nt dream that Shoreham would be the last time I saw one fly, I did not manage to photo the 3 of them on the ground there as the heavens opened. But I did get the shot I wanted spray wise.

I shot the living daylights out of it at RIAT because I knew it would be the last Harrier display I saw. Rightly or wrongly the Harrier decision was entirely predictable.

[Offbreed]

Did'nt dream that Shoreham would be the last time I saw one fly, I did not manage to photo the 3 of them on the ground there as the heavens opened. But I did get the shot I wanted spray wise.

I hope we have some memorable events to mark the passing of the Harrier, maybe 16 harriers flying together or a mass hover and bow.

[JJC]

Did'nt dream that Shoreham would be the last time I saw one fly, I did not manage to photo the 3 of them on the ground there as the heavens opened. But I did get the shot I wanted spray wise.

I hope we have some memorable events to mark the passing of the Harrier, maybe 16 harriers flying together or a mass hover and bow.

I highly doubt that. Maybe if it was retiring after Waddington or RIAT or something, but its retiring on 01/04/10 its probably not going to happen.

[Offbreed]

Did'nt dream that Shoreham would be the last time I saw one fly, I did not manage to photo the 3 of them on the ground there as the heavens opened. But I did get the shot I wanted spray wise.

I hope we have some memorable events to mark the passing of the Harrier, maybe 16 harriers flying together or a mass hover and bow.

I highly doubt that. Maybe if it was retiring after Waddington or RIAT or something, but its retiring on 01/04/10 its probably not going to happen.

That would be shocking, to think such an iconic British aircraft could be scrapped with no farewell.