What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

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stonesfan
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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by stonesfan »

Have the jets reached the end of their airframe life I wonder?

If not, I do wonder what the chances are of one ever actually flying in the UK again?

StevenH
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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by StevenH »

stonesfan wrote:I do wonder what the chances are of one ever actually flying in the UK again?

Zero.

stonesfan
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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by stonesfan »

StevenH wrote:
stonesfan wrote:I do wonder what the chances are of one ever actually flying in the UK again?

Zero.


What are the main reasons for that?

Vodka
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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by Vodka »

Reason - The CAA

StevenH
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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by StevenH »

Vodka wrote:Reason - The CAA

What he said.

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MrAngry2
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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by MrAngry2 »

I actually asked this on Facebook 2 days ago, No one really seemed to know, although the theory is the Lightnings have had bits nicked for the new Land-speed record attempt.
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stonesfan
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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by stonesfan »

Vodka wrote:Reason - The CAA


There are plenty of other 'heritage' jets flying! Am not questioning your response, just wondering why the CAA would not want the Lightning or the Buccaneer flying at a UK Airshow when they've been carrying passengers for the last 20 odd years.

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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by Rory76 »

This has been raised on several occasions in the past (once by me when I first joined). Basically boils down to the complexity of the aircraft (afterburners being one issue), safety record (very poor when in RAF service) and (may be wrong on this one) reluctance of a company to accept design authority for it (presumably BAe in its current guise). Allied to this is the fact that the UK is much more crowded and has a much more congested airspace than South Africa or the USA, and the risks associated with a major malfunction are much greater.

It's a classic jet that I'd love to see fly (probably the only classic I hold in greater regard than the Vulcan), but I think it is, sadly, unrealistic that they will ever be allowed to fly in the UK.
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DanH
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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by DanH »

From what I recall the CAA aren't willing to let any supersonic aircraft be operated in civilian hands.
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shaggy101
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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by shaggy101 »

What about the hunter, that can go supersonic. Only just though.
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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by StevenH »

Rory76 wrote:This has been raised on several occasions in the past (once by me when I first joined). Basically boils down to the complexity of the aircraft (afterburners being one issue), safety record (very poor when in RAF service) and (may be wrong on this one) reluctance of a company to accept design authority for it (presumably BAe in its current guise). Allied to this is the fact that the UK is much more crowded and has a much more congested airspace than South Africa or the USA, and the risks associated with a major malfunction are much greater.

It's a classic jet that I'd love to see fly (probably the only classic I hold in greater regard than the Vulcan), but I think it is, sadly, unrealistic that they will ever be allowed to fly in the UK.

This tallies up with what I've heard also. I seem to recall something about problems with hydraulics specifically, can't remember details though?

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MrAngry2
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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by MrAngry2 »

Pretty much what I thought also, wasnt there a bit of debate about the Buccaneers Flap system causing a bit of a problem for the CAA to ok one flying as well.
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kalachnik
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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by kalachnik »

MrAngry2 wrote:Pretty much what I thought also, wasnt there a bit of debate about the Buccaneers Flap system causing a bit of a problem for the CAA to ok one flying as well.


But it must be noted that the Hawker Hunter Aviation company have a Buccaneer that was cleared to fly by the CAA in 2006 or around then. But as far as I know it has never been flown, and awaits a contract so it can be utilised.

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CH2
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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by CH2 »

The Buccs were not all owned by TC, Ian Pringle owned one;

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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by Rory76 »

kalachnik wrote:
MrAngry2 wrote:Pretty much what I thought also, wasnt there a bit of debate about the Buccaneers Flap system causing a bit of a problem for the CAA to ok one flying as well.


But it must be noted that the Hawker Hunter Aviation company have a Buccaneer that was cleared to fly by the CAA in 2006 or around then. But as far as I know it has never been flown, and awaits a contract so it can be utilised.

Image

And here she is....


Was just about to reply in a similar vein- unfortunately they are very much a commercial operation and have their aircraft purely for use in their "Aggressor" training contracts. They have no intention at all of using it on the display circuit.
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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by Trident 3B »

its basically down to what rory76 said regarding complexity of the aircraft. A hunter is a very different beast to a lightning. As has alredy been mentioned the lightning had the nickname of the frightning in service due to the complexity and poor safty record. i understand that the fuel system alone is an absolute nightmare.
However thunder city did show in the most that they were safe to operate, but of course even they suffered a very servere failure resulting in fatalities, so that wont encourage the CAA in the UK to assist getting the lightnings airbourne.
Another major stumbling block is design authority which would be BAe system in this case, they are reluctant to say the least but the return to air of '558 showed that even they could come round to supporting the return to flight. (this is also one of the main stumbling block regarding Concorde, but thats another story...)

unless someone comes along with huge amounts of cash and time , we will NEVER see a lightning in the UK skies.

:sad:

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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by tommercer »

Rory76 wrote:
kalachnik wrote:
MrAngry2 wrote:Pretty much what I thought also, wasnt there a bit of debate about the Buccaneers Flap system causing a bit of a problem for the CAA to ok one flying as well.


But it must be noted that the Hawker Hunter Aviation company have a Buccaneer that was cleared to fly by the CAA in 2006 or around then. But as far as I know it has never been flown, and awaits a contract so it can be utilised.

Image

And here she is....


Was just about to reply in a similar vein- unfortunately they are very much a commercial operation and have their aircraft purely for use in their "Aggressor" training contracts. They have no intention at all of using it on the display circuit.


I wrote to the HHA back in 2009 asking about the Bucc they owned. They informed me that it was flight worthy, but would only fly if a contract was picked up as you've already said. However, they did let on that they'd had some interest from certain companies regarding whether they'd be able to participate in sea trials of the Queen Elizabeth class carriers anti missile systems. So if you believe that, all is not lost!

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F-86
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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by F-86 »

shaggy101 wrote:What about the hunter, that can go supersonic. Only just though.

The Sea Vixen is also capable of supersonic flight in a very shallow dive.
Hopefully one day a Buccaneer will take to the skies again.

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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by 24left »

I'll be there in 2 weeks but reckon everything is inside as it always was. Big hangar and everything was always kept inside apart from the DC3. Here are some pics from 10 years ago when I was there.

Image
there are direct links embedded here but they arent working! Here are the links.
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http://i55.tinypic.com/16lyzj7.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/bg7m7s.jpg

stonesfan
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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by stonesfan »

DanH wrote:From what I recall the CAA aren't willing to let any supersonic aircraft be operated in civilian hands.


Does make you wonder what made them come to this conclusion. We have pretty much proved since the 1950s that the World doesnt suddenly come to and end when an aircraft hits mach 1.0! Or is there another reasoning behind this?

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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by Mike »

Since Thunder City's experience operating Lightnings did not end well, that will only serve to re-inforce the CAA's view that they are unsuitable for civilian operation in the UK under any circumstances.

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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by 24left »

I agree. First it catches fire and then worse still ejection seat fails. But that isnt Lightening specific though to me, complex yes.

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MrAngry2
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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by MrAngry2 »

When I win Euro millions tonight, I will get a Bucc back on the circuit :king:
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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by FGR2 »

Isn't one of the problems that the engines and other fuel lines/ Hydraulics are so close together?

If a fuel line goes and catches fire, it then takes out your hydraulics and subsequent control of the aircraft.

As stated above, the tragic loss of the Lightning and it's pilot in South Africa, will only stengthen the CAA's view.

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Re: What's happened to the Thunder City jets?

Post by Skyflash »

Regardless of the likelihood (or otherwise) of seeing one flying in the UK, I think the OP was asking what the plans are for the South Africa-based jets now that Thunder City has been wound-up. Does anyone know? It would be a terrible shame if they stopped flying altogether; even if they ended up having to go Stateside, for example, in order to remain airworthy, then that would be great.

IIRC there was someone from Thunder City who used to post on here; perhaps he could be tracked down and PM'd...?
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