P51 Mustangs
- The Dudster
- Posts: 606
- Joined: Thu 09 Jul 2009, 6:56 pm
P51 Mustangs
Does anyone know how many airworthy P51's there are in Europe ?
Chris
Chris
Re: P51 Mustangs
Rough count off the top of my head:
UK = 6 (Marinell, Jumpin Jacques, Miss Velma, Ferocious Frankie, Janie and Miss Helen)
One in France = (Nooky Booky IV)
Germany = 2 or 3
One in Sweden (Cavalier Mustang It's About Time)
One in Norway (Anders Saether's Old Crow)
Netherlands = 2 (Damn Yankee and the ex-Sandberg one that recently flew after being there for years)
I'm sure I've missed a couple. There used to be 5 or 6 in France a few years back.
UK = 6 (Marinell, Jumpin Jacques, Miss Velma, Ferocious Frankie, Janie and Miss Helen)
One in France = (Nooky Booky IV)
Germany = 2 or 3
One in Sweden (Cavalier Mustang It's About Time)
One in Norway (Anders Saether's Old Crow)
Netherlands = 2 (Damn Yankee and the ex-Sandberg one that recently flew after being there for years)
I'm sure I've missed a couple. There used to be 5 or 6 in France a few years back.
Re: P51 Mustangs
I believe that 'Miss Helen' has moved on to pastures new (Germany) thus leaving 5 airworthy in the UK.
Re: P51 Mustangs
Miss Helen is currently in Germany for maintanence.
Having looked through a list of all the one's in the states, i cant understand why they keep pinching ours! I vote to enforce a ban on the export of WW2 american hardware unless the Fw190 and Bf109E are returned to europe What we think!?
7
Having looked through a list of all the one's in the states, i cant understand why they keep pinching ours! I vote to enforce a ban on the export of WW2 american hardware unless the Fw190 and Bf109E are returned to europe What we think!?
7
With dumb bombs and retarded bomblets, why don't they just use stupid missiles?
- The Dudster
- Posts: 606
- Joined: Thu 09 Jul 2009, 6:56 pm
Re: P51 Mustangs
JohnH wrote:Chris
Try this website, it may be of some help.
http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/?survivors
Had a look through the web site John gave and as far as there listings the following below are located in the UK and near Europe.
44 10753 " Its a bout Time Sweden
44 13521 " Marinell UK
44 72035 " Jumpin Jacques UK
44 72216 " Miss Helen" UK
44 73149 Ferocious Frankie UK
44 73871 " Dream Girl" Germany
44 73877 " Old Crow" Norway
4474427 Nooky Booky France
44 84847 Miss Velma UK
44 11518 Janie UK
possible one or two more that haven't caught up with there website yet. The only reason i asked is, does anyone think there would be mileage in a Gathering of Mustangs and Legends style show over here in the UK. Possible for the 2013 air show season. Im not an air show organiser but just interested in others ideas that's all.
Chris
P.S i agree no more P51 exports to the US they have to many !!
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Re: P51 Mustangs
On top of the list above:
44-72773 Lucky Lady VII Germany
44-72811 Germany
44-72922 Scat VII Holland (TF)
44-74425 Danm Yankee Holland
44-74923 Trusty Rusty Holland (close to flying if not already flown)
On top of this another TF51 in Germany getting very close to flying
44-72773 Lucky Lady VII Germany
44-72811 Germany
44-72922 Scat VII Holland (TF)
44-74425 Danm Yankee Holland
44-74923 Trusty Rusty Holland (close to flying if not already flown)
On top of this another TF51 in Germany getting very close to flying
- The Dudster
- Posts: 606
- Joined: Thu 09 Jul 2009, 6:56 pm
Re: P51 Mustangs
Yak 11 Fan wrote:44-72773 Lucky Lady VII Germany
44-72811 Germany
44-72922 Scat VII Holland (TF)
44-74425 Danm Yankee Holland
44-74923 Trusty Rusty Holland (close to flying if not already flown)
On top of this another TF51 in Germany getting very close to flying
The Dudster wrote:Had a look through the web site John gave and as far as there listings the following below are located in the UK and near Europe.
44 10753 " Its a bout Time Sweden
44 13521 " Marinell UK
44 72035 " Jumpin Jacques UK
44 72216 " Miss Helen" UK
44 73149 Ferocious Frankie UK
44 73871 " Dream Girl" Germany
44 73877 " Old Crow" Norway
4474427 Nooky Booky France
44 84847 Miss Velma UK
44 11518 Janie UK
So that makes a possible 16 ! add a couple in from the states and a bit of wishes and end up with 20 Put that all together as a special air show at say DX and it could be something along the lines of the 16 Spits we all witnessed in 2010. Its only wishful thinking i know but wouldn't that be special
Chris
Re: P51 Mustangs
Well, we had 9 at Legends one year!
So my list was pretty much spot-on, except I forgot 'Scat'
I'd suspect that show organizers would rather spend the money getting a dozen varied types at a show rather than a dozen near-identical looking P-51Ds. It's pretty much impossible nowadays to get all the UK examples together due to politics between the owners, now extend that across all European examples (and add in the issues arising from the various incidents at this years Legends) and I'd say that such a gathering is unlikely at best.
So my list was pretty much spot-on, except I forgot 'Scat'
I'd suspect that show organizers would rather spend the money getting a dozen varied types at a show rather than a dozen near-identical looking P-51Ds. It's pretty much impossible nowadays to get all the UK examples together due to politics between the owners, now extend that across all European examples (and add in the issues arising from the various incidents at this years Legends) and I'd say that such a gathering is unlikely at best.
Re: P51 Mustangs
A40-BP wrote:Having looked through a list of all the one's in the states, i cant understand why they keep pinching ours! I vote to enforce a ban on the export of WW2 american hardware unless the Fw190 and Bf109E are returned to europe What we think!?
What a strange comment. By my reckoning, all except 3 of the examples currently in Europe were exports FROM the US in the warbird era, so it should be them complaining about losing them, not the other way around!
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Re: P51 Mustangs
If you want to send us some more Mike we will look after them
Re: P51 Mustangs
Excalibur in Czech Republic.
Re: P51 Mustangs
Yak 11 Fan wrote:If you want to send us some more Mike we will look after them
Sorry Chris, I had a word with Santa and he said he won't send you any more over until you've fixed the pretty one with the black and white checkered nose that you broke recently.
Re: P51 Mustangs
"Old Crow" is now in Sweden (Västerås Flying Museum). She has moved there together with the A-26 "Sugarland Express".
Re: P51 Mustangs
Daniel, do you know if they're on temporary loan or sold to the Vasteras museum, please?
- The Dudster
- Posts: 606
- Joined: Thu 09 Jul 2009, 6:56 pm
Re: P51 Mustangs
Mike wrote:Yak 11 Fan wrote:If you want to send us some more Mike we will look after them
Sorry Chris, I had a word with Santa and he said he won't send you any more over until you've fixed the pretty one with the black and white checkered nose that you broke recently.
well i had a birthday recently and was told to make a wish before i blue the multitude of candles out that seem to gather more and more each year !! Santa said ive been good but even in my wildest wishes i don't think he could bring that back one back to life very soon.
As for the original idea. Gathering as many P51's in Europe together in one place for a special occasion it seems is a non starter due to various reason according to people here.
Organisers spending their money on a dozen different types of aircraft at a show specific to P51's, and i didn't suggest adding it in to Legends only at Duxford as it seemed an obvious choice given its history. I guess Bentwaters would be a second choice only because its 5 miles from my house or any WW2 airfield probably in east Anglia. Correct me if im wrong but isn't 2013 the anniversary of the 8th Airforcre starting combat operations from the UK in WW2.
Re: P51 Mustangs
BenG wrote:Excalibur in Czech Republic.
Looks fantastic
My flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/53647931@N05/
Re: P51 Mustangs
Ferocious Frankie makes the loudest whistle
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X-kgOn5G6Q[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X-kgOn5G6Q[/youtube]
Re: P51 Mustangs
Does anyone know how the restoration of the former WOGB/TFC Mustang that was flown by Ray Hanna in that famous waving scene in Empire of the sun is coming along after it's fatal crash in France in 1998?
Re: P51 Mustangs
I'd love to see Excalibur in the UK some time soon, to see that topsiding at Legends. Ooooooft
Re: P51 Mustangs
Jumbojet380 wrote:I'd love to see Excalibur in the UK some time soon, to see that topsiding at Legends. Ooooooft
But the paying public wouldn't see it topside in that case
Re: P51 Mustangs
F-86 wrote:Does anyone know how the restoration of the former WOGB/TFC Mustang that was flown by Ray Hanna in that famous waving scene in Empire of the sun is coming along after it's fatal crash in France in 1998?
Still underway - fuselage is finished, wings in progress.
Re: P51 Mustangs
Anyone know what happened to Big Beautiful Doll's remains or is it still part of an investigation?
Re: P51 Mustangs
A little off topic, but can anyone offer a definitive answer to why P-51s whistle. Supercharger, gunports and exhaust are all remarked upon but is there a definite answer, particularly as other WWII fighter types have been known to whistle too.
Regards
Regards
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Re: P51 Mustangs
Ah, the old old urban myth.......It's not the supercharger. The engine generally has the same design of supercharger as certain Spitfires, and you never hear them whistling. In fact, I'd be quite concerned if it was the supercharger! As for the exhaust, it's a non starter...
It is in fact the gun ports, which are like bottle openings. What happens when airflow goes over a bottle opening? You get a whistle of sorts. In the P51, any g loading to the wing starts to make that whistling sound, which increases in volume as the g loading increases. You can even hear it in the cockpit as you increase the g loading. 4 of the 6 gun ports are quite 'deep' and plugged by the .50 cal Brownings, so with the 300mph airflow going in and out, and being deflected at such an angle, and having a g loading of typically 4 or 5g in the kinds of manoeuvres were talking about, it makes that characteristic sound. If you tape the gun ports over, the whistle is absent. Some Cessnas have a stall warning device that is set to make a noise in the cockpit when the angle of attack is increased to the point of a 1g stall, around 14 degrees. No electrics, just the airflow..
I'm no aerodynamisict, but that's a pilot's view of it. Any MS flight sim pilots want to argue?
It is in fact the gun ports, which are like bottle openings. What happens when airflow goes over a bottle opening? You get a whistle of sorts. In the P51, any g loading to the wing starts to make that whistling sound, which increases in volume as the g loading increases. You can even hear it in the cockpit as you increase the g loading. 4 of the 6 gun ports are quite 'deep' and plugged by the .50 cal Brownings, so with the 300mph airflow going in and out, and being deflected at such an angle, and having a g loading of typically 4 or 5g in the kinds of manoeuvres were talking about, it makes that characteristic sound. If you tape the gun ports over, the whistle is absent. Some Cessnas have a stall warning device that is set to make a noise in the cockpit when the angle of attack is increased to the point of a 1g stall, around 14 degrees. No electrics, just the airflow..
I'm no aerodynamisict, but that's a pilot's view of it. Any MS flight sim pilots want to argue?
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