Airshow - An Organisers View

Airshow - An Organisers View

Postby NAM Updater on Sun 09 Jun 2013, 10:29 am

I thought that the following BBC News item gives and interesting view from an airshow organisers perspective http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-22800389
Howard Heeley - Newark Air Museum Trustee
17 & 18 August, Copter-Fest
http://newarkairmuseum.org
User avatar
NAM Updater

Re: Airshow - An Organisers View

Postby FGR2 on Sun 09 Jun 2013, 10:41 am

I saw that a few moments ago. It does highlight how we need to support shows by paying to go in where we can.
FGR2

Re: Airshow - An Organisers View

Postby Thumper on Sun 09 Jun 2013, 11:17 am

An unfortunate situation because increasing the entry fee will only hit the people who don't have a problem paying to get in. I have to be honest and say that if ticket prices were increased to "pay for the freeloaders" I think I would walk away. Freeloaders will always be around and I don't want to increase my spend due to those who have no intention of paying.

I do hope that Welshpool manage to get a decent amount of money today, hopefully the Vulcan will pull the crowds in for them, paying ones!
User avatar
Thumper
UKAR Supporter

Re: Airshow - An Organisers View

Postby RRconway on Sun 09 Jun 2013, 11:42 am

I do feel sympathy for these small airshows.
The £15 admission for a family ticket is extremely reasonable, especially if you compare it to other family attractions such as zoos or theme parks, even taking my family to a certain Scottish fast food restaurant inevitably costs more.

Having said that, you are never going to be able to stop people from watching the aircraft from outside, and to be honest why shouldn't they? It may be that they can't afford to go in.

However I do take exception to some of the wording and thought process' of the organisers. For example saying that the people on the hill are refusing to pay to enter the show, no they're not, they're choosing not to go in, if they tried to get in without paying then they'd be refusing, and, saying they will up the admission price to compensate, compensate for what, the costs of the show dont increase because people choose to watch from outside.
The organiser must set up his stall after fully assessing his business model. If it doesn't work then by all means adjust your plan, for example add value to your product, more aircraft, events or attractions inside, or by all means up your prices, but don't try and blame outside influences that you have no control over, the consumer won't have much patience for that kind of game.
It will put off the existing customers though, if it is labeled this way.
People will watch from outside, that is a fact, there is nothing anyone can do and indeed it is nobody's business if some people choose to do so.

:hide:
I know you think you understood what I said, but I'm not sure you realise that what I said is not what I meant.
User avatar
RRconway

Re: Airshow - An Organisers View

Postby Craig on Sun 09 Jun 2013, 1:57 pm

RRconway wrote:I do feel sympathy for these small airshows.
The £15 admission for a family ticket is extremely reasonable, especially if you compare it to other family attractions such as zoos or theme parks, even taking my family to a certain Scottish fast food restaurant inevitably costs more.

Having said that, you are never going to be able to stop people from watching the aircraft from outside, and to be honest why shouldn't they? It may be that they can't afford to go in.

However I do take exception to some of the wording and thought process' of the organisers. For example saying that the people on the hill are refusing to pay to enter the show, no they're not, they're choosing not to go in, if they tried to get in without paying then they'd be refusing, and, saying they will up the admission price to compensate, compensate for what, the costs of the show dont increase because people choose to watch from outside.
The organiser must set up his stall after fully assessing his business model. If it doesn't work then by all means adjust your plan, for example add value to your product, more aircraft, events or attractions inside, or by all means up your prices, but don't try and blame outside influences that you have no control over, the consumer won't have much patience for that kind of game.
It will put off the existing customers though, if it is labeled this way.
People will watch from outside, that is a fact, there is nothing anyone can do and indeed it is nobody's business if some people choose to do so.

:hide:

But then taking that to its logical conclusion, the event is cancelled. Surely if you're interested enough to want to go and watch, then it doesn't seem unreasonable you should make some contribution? £5 a ticket is extremely good value, if only for the Vulcan and Typhoon displays, it'd be a pity if it were to end due to the inability of some to see the bigger picture.
User avatar
Craig
UKAR Staff

Re: Airshow - An Organisers View

Postby RRconway on Sun 09 Jun 2013, 2:39 pm

Craig wrote:
RRconway wrote:I do feel sympathy for these small airshows.
The £15 admission for a family ticket is extremely reasonable, especially if you compare it to other family attractions such as zoos or theme parks, even taking my family to a certain Scottish fast food restaurant inevitably costs more.

Having said that, you are never going to be able to stop people from watching the aircraft from outside, and to be honest why shouldn't they? It may be that they can't afford to go in.

However I do take exception to some of the wording and thought process' of the organisers. For example saying that the people on the hill are refusing to pay to enter the show, no they're not, they're choosing not to go in, if they tried to get in without paying then they'd be refusing, and, saying they will up the admission price to compensate, compensate for what, the costs of the show dont increase because people choose to watch from outside.
The organiser must set up his stall after fully assessing his business model. If it doesn't work then by all means adjust your plan, for example add value to your product, more aircraft, events or attractions inside, or by all means up your prices, but don't try and blame outside influences that you have no control over, the consumer won't have much patience for that kind of game.
It will put off the existing customers though, if it is labeled this way.
People will watch from outside, that is a fact, there is nothing anyone can do and indeed it is nobody's business if some people choose to do so.

:hide:

But then taking that to its logical conclusion, the event is cancelled.

Craig, I think you're saying that of enough people watch outside it'll be cancelled.
If so, yes that's true, but then if those outside are not interested enough to go in and pay, will they really care when it doesn't happen? Probably not.

Craig wrote:Surely if you're interested enough to want to go and watch, then it doesn't seem unreasonable you should make some contribution? £5 a ticket is extremely good value, if only for the Vulcan and Typhoon displays, it'd be a pity if it were to end due to the inability of some to see the bigger picture.


I agree completely Craig, don't get me wrong it's not a good situation. The people outside have their reasons for not going in, whether its not being able to afford it, or not being very interested and just treating it as something to do for a few hours if the weather is nice.
I've already said I think it's very good value, but fortunately I'm in a good job on a good wage. It's just possible some of these people can't afford it.

At any airshow you will see people outside for arrival and departure days who will not be going in for the show days.
Every summer I sit on the beach on the south coast with y family, they play in the sand and I scan the skies for transiting aircraft going between Shoreham, Bournemouth and all the other nearby shows. I've seen (as close as I would at a show) the BBMF, the Reds, Sally B, the Blades, the solo Hawk and many others and got some great pictures. The only difference is I take pot luck with what I see, but I go down knowing ill see something.

I agree with what you're saying but there really is nothing any organiser can do unless laws are being broken, (and no I won't get involved in a naughty field discussion, having never been there :wink: :smile: ).
The only thing I could think would work if the organisers felt so inclined would be to have statics only. Many classic car shows happen each year without a driving element, people just turn up to view the cars and nothing is lost to people outside.

My bug bear with this story is the knee jerk reaction of saying the existing punters will have to make up the (what appears to me) to be a fictional shortfall.

I think Thumpers comments may reflect a good many of their customers, if they're not very careful.

An unfortunate situation.
Jeff.
I know you think you understood what I said, but I'm not sure you realise that what I said is not what I meant.
User avatar
RRconway

Re: Airshow - An Organisers View

Postby psquiddy on Sun 09 Jun 2013, 6:28 pm

Why are people on the hills - apart from it being free?

Is the view better from there?

Are there other reasons? Is this comparable to Eastbourne (although it is a free show)? I go to Beachy Head because I dont want to battle through the crowds in town. Is that the case at Welshpool?

Would the people on the hills at Welshpool still go there if they had to pay? Could the organisers come to some arrangement with the landowners of the hills and get an entry fee in that way?

Come to think of it - would the people in the naughty field at DX be there if they had to pay to be there?
Over 300 free things to do in London
http://www.toplondondaysout.co.uk
User avatar
psquiddy

Re: Airshow - An Organisers View

Postby Thumper on Mon 10 Jun 2013, 11:53 am

psquiddy wrote:Why are people on the hills - apart from it being free?

Is the view better from there?

Are there other reasons? Is this comparable to Eastbourne (although it is a free show)? I go to Beachy Head because I dont want to battle through the crowds in town. Is that the case at Welshpool?

Would the people on the hills at Welshpool still go there if they had to pay? Could the organisers come to some arrangement with the landowners of the hills and get an entry fee in that way?

Come to think of it - would the people in the naughty field at DX be there if they had to pay to be there?


I've not been to Welshpool before but I can speak of other shows (pretty much ALL of them) that attract freeloaders.

There are many different reasons why people freeload, some do because of the light to photograph aircraft, at a fair few shows you are shooting into the sun which is no good for photography so many photographers will look for a better location which offers decent light from a photographic point of view. Some people freeload because they simply don't want to pay, some because they don't want to queue or be rammed in like sardines at the crowd line and some people may be driving past the show having known nothing about it and simply pulled over to have a look. As long as airshows are around there will be freeloaders no matter what measures are taken.

Take Yeovilton this year for example. Throughout the airshow this year including arrivals and departures, there are a large number of road and path closures. Now this will stop freeloaders getting close to the airfield and will also make it very difficult to find anywhere worthwhile to sit and freeload but it's not going to stop it. There are threads on other forums discussing fields, paths and and places to park to see the arrivals and people are annoyed at these restrictions. The reason being, most people who attend arrivals will be spotters/enthusiasts and photographers. Yeovilton do have a photocall for arrivals day (£16) BUT you are shooting straight into the sun all day and once on base you can't leave for 4 hours due to access restrictions. It's less than ideal and in my opinion I'm not paying £16 to get worthless shots. Having said that, if you look at the Yeovilton thread on this forum (and others) you will see that many people (me included) are prepared to pay MORE than the photocall to be allowed access to the sheep field so we can get some decent shots.

I understand the safety restrictions and I don't have a problem with them, I also don't have a problem paying but I'm not paying for something totally pointless to me and I will seek out alternatives, be them paid or not.
User avatar
Thumper
UKAR Supporter

Re: Airshow - An Organisers View

Postby FarnboroJohn on Mon 10 Jun 2013, 4:20 pm

So to sum up:

- Airshow organisers are at a particular disadvantage compared to other show organisers because the key elements of their shows can be seen for miles

- Some airshows either don't provide the best possible facilities for some specialist users or suffer from simple geographical limitations

So a number of solutions are open to the organisers:

- The Yeovilton approach: make life as difficult as possible for specialist users and then find they are actually prepared to pay more for what they want than you can glean from them offering an inferior product;

- The Duxford approach: let them get on with it;

- The Eastbourne approach: everyone's a freeloader so it doesn't matter to the organisers where you stand.

A number of solutions are also open to the specialist users:

- Pay up and miss the best shots

- Don't pay and pick your own spot (taking personal responsibility for risks to yourself, an approach which needs more and not less support);

- Pay for access to a better spot

- Pay wherever the show favours it, and don't when it doesn't

One size is never going to fit all. I don't know why anyone tries to make it do so.

John
FarnboroJohn


Return to Aviation Waffle

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests