Future of the Red Arrows?

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HawkT1
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Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by HawkT1 »

ok, before i start this is my brain going off on one flowing Jim turners speech the other week, and ive seen nothing official

http://www.epworthbells.co.uk/news/loca ... -1-6708135

Jim Turner gave a news interview the other week, stating that its ageing Hawk T1 aircraft are in need of replacement for long term Reds use (post 2018), and sadly i have to agree, the Hawk fleet is quickly diminishing and even with the hawks in storage at Shawbury there collective 'hours' left, considerably limits the life of the Hawk fleet, dont forget we have 2 other active sqn's of Hawk T1's (208sqn and 100sqn) and 4 sqn sometimes borrow a couple

so i dont think the RAF will dissolve the Reds, as they bring much needed good publicity to the RAF

so what are the options?

this may sound bizzar but.....

option 1 - use Hawk t2's but this would mean buying more aircraft which we cant afford, on top of plans for the f-35 and replacing older model typhoons

option 2 - the clue was in the last statement....... use the earlier model typhoons, they are well short of the flight hours and are slowly being replaced by higher mk aircraft as they cant be upgraded further and commonality with the 'fleet' could mean cheaper servicing and spares costs along with the training and provision to be reverted to a fighter in the 'hour of need', this is something that's done elsewhere - Thunderbirds, blue angles et al. Also i hear the saudis, are thinking of the same

any ideas, thoughts?

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Tommy
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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by Tommy »

Tucanos once they're replaced in their lead-in trainer role? :hide: :hide: :hide:

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luke
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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by luke »

During the Waddo display it was said that the move would be to T.2's.

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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by tankbuster81 »

Tutors would look gorgeous. Imagine the noise! :whistle:
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HawkT1
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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by HawkT1 »

that would mean buying more t'2 which dont get me wrong as a hawk fan i love the idea

it just dont make sense to get rid of older but still usable aircraft to buy new ones (ok i forgot this is the RAF / MoD )

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HawkT1
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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by HawkT1 »

tankbuster81 wrote:Tutors would look gorgeous. Imagine the noise! :whistle:



your on to something there!! :yahoo:

hold on we dont own them either

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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by stickshaker »

Most of the Hawks at Shawbury are at the end of their lives. They are either dead or need a 'major' servicing to get any useful time out of them.

One of the points he is making is that, whatever happens, someone needs to start doing something now. It would take that long to get a sensible number of aircraft sorted. They must also be just about on the limit of available smoke pods and the lead time to get any of those made would also be long.

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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by Red Dragon »

Well I've seen the Roulettes (RAAF) and they were just as impressive, so I personally think that will be the way to go. We get to keep the Reds and after the initial outlay on facilities etc we still get to keep the national display team (albeit Turboprop not Jet) On the upside the Tucano will be more manoeuvrable than the Swiss PC-7 and they might be equipped with the PC-21 eventually?

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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by Gregg »

Fairly sure the contract with BaE excludes aerobatics?

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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by HawkT1 »

Gregg wrote:Fairly sure the contract with BaE excludes aerobatics?


what about the typhoon display? and Bae Make the Hawks

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Talldan76
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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by Talldan76 »

Judging by the Bird Strike rate at the moment they are going to need new planes next week!!


We were taking to one of the Red's ground crew at Waddington on Sunday, and he said that the airframe involved in the strike on Saturday (red 6) would possibly be written off due to the internal damage caused...

And apparently there was another strike today, which caused one of them to land at Farnborough...?

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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by Gregg »

HawkT1 wrote:
Gregg wrote:Fairly sure the contract with BaE excludes aerobatics?


what about the typhoon display? and Bae Make the Hawks


Seperate contracts. 'Twas a chap on a hawk squadron that told me that.

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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by Suki »

Talldan76 wrote:Judging by the Bird Strike rate at the moment they are going to need new planes next week!!


We were taking to one of the Red's ground crew at Waddington on Sunday, and he said that the airframe involved in the strike on Saturday (red 6) would possibly be written off due to the internal damage caused...

And apparently there was another strike today, which caused one of them to land at Farnborough...?



That's correct Red 7 landed safely from a bird strike

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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by HawkT1 »

so how many hawks have we got left?

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Red Dragon
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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by Red Dragon »

HawkT1 wrote:so how many hawks have we got left?


T1's

RAFAT (I thought I'd missed a unit! :grin: )

100 Sqn, 208 Sqn, 736 NAS

Boscombe Down/ ETPS

Centre for Aviation Medicine

Hangar in Shawbury

T2's

4 Sqn
Last edited by Red Dragon on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 2:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Rule 27
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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by Rule 27 »

102 according to Scramble.

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Rule 27
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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by Rule 27 »

Red Dragon wrote:
HawkT1 wrote:so how many hawks have we got left?


100 Sqn, 208 Sqn, 736 NAS

Boscombe Down/ ETPS

Centre for Aviation Medicine

Hangar in Shawbury

RAFAT?!

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HawkT1
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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by HawkT1 »

but i wonder how many have viable flight hours left?

i still think the typhoon options would make more sense cost wise, so does that mean the 'old' typhoons will get scrapped and cut up?

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Red Dragon
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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by Red Dragon »

HawkT1 wrote:but i wonder how many have viable flight hours left?

i still think the typhoon options would make more sense cost wise, so does that mean the 'old' typhoons will get scrapped and cut up?


How on earth can it be more viable to double up the fuel costs of 18 afterburning engines instead of 9 non afterburning engines when the RAF are trying to save money left right and centre?

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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by Maisie »

Wouldn't it be the 'Grey Arrows', as apparently the Typhoon can't be painted any other colour...


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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by stickshaker »

Gregg wrote:Fairly sure the contract with BaE excludes aerobatics?


Which contract are we talking about here?

As i said earlier, it's not just the number of airframes, but what life they have without major maintenance. If one of those bird strike aircraft is lost then it's another long lead time to rob the smoke parts to convert another one.

The problem with everything being so small now is cost. I guess a handful of Hawks out of a total buy of something like 175 was easy to maintain. To purchase a new fleet (without sponsorship) would be difficult to justify.

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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by Talldan76 »

Maisie wrote:Wouldn't it be the 'Grey Arrows', as apparently the Typhoon can't be painted any other colour...


:lol:


even if they were grey, 9 Typhoons doing an acrobatic display would be an awesome sight... and the noise...!

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HawkT1
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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by HawkT1 »

Red Dragon wrote:
HawkT1 wrote:but i wonder how many have viable flight hours left?

i still think the typhoon options would make more sense cost wise, so does that mean the 'old' typhoons will get scrapped and cut up?


How on earth can it be more viable to double up the fuel costs of 18 afterburning engines instead of 9 non afterburning engines when the RAF are trying to save money left right and centre?


i understand your point, but buying at least 15-20 more hawk T2's must cost more than recycling ?10 typhoons that we have already paid for, if the RAF are trying to save money why buy more when it can use what it has

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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by pbeardmore »

lease some old Alpha Jets? :whistle:

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Re: Future of the Red Arrows?

Post by Adie1980 »

The other idea could be 4 aircraft team in the future (like Blue Angels, Thunderbirds etc) and use old Typhoons
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