WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

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hmeasures
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by hmeasures »

RRconway wrote:
hmeasures wrote:
DanO1978 wrote:Wasn't the last Northolt event something like £30 minimum "donation"? That's getting towards the ticket price of a major airshow.


am sure last time I went it was £20 plus crew cost...?


This time it was £25 + £5 crew costs.
The first increase in all the years I've been attending, and still good value, as for the cancellations, sure pay your £20 for Shuttlworth, doesn't guarantee anything will fly though, does it?


No, but there will still be a museum to look around and planes to take pictures of regardless of whether they fly or not :whistle:

Regardless, I decided it was not worth it that time as there is not just the £30 to get in but also the holiday I would have to take off work and the travel costs.

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CameronSys
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by CameronSys »

Just out of interest, how well have tickets sold so far?

See you there,

Cameron

chipmunk22
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by chipmunk22 »

Why don`t all the armchair whingers stop bleating ?? :mad:
If £20 -- odd quid to see a shack run is too much, don`t go --- SIMPLE !!

Personally, I think it is good value,and hope to be there.As they say - Fuel ain`t cheap.

How much would an evening at a pub cost ?? -- unless you whinge about that too !! :grin:

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RRconway
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by RRconway »

chipmunk22 wrote:Why don`t all the armchair whingers stop bleating ?? :mad:
If £20 -- odd quid to see a shack run is too much, don`t go --- SIMPLE !!

Personally, I think it is good value,and hope to be there.As they say - Fuel ain`t cheap.

How much would an evening at a pub cost ?? -- unless you whinge about that too !! :grin:


Well said :clap:
I know you think you understood what I said, but I'm not sure you realise that what I said is not what I meant.

Domvickery
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by Domvickery »

RRconway wrote:
chipmunk22 wrote:Why don`t all the armchair whingers stop bleating ?? :mad:
If £20 -- odd quid to see a shack run is too much, don`t go --- SIMPLE !!

Personally, I think it is good value,and hope to be there.As they say - Fuel ain`t cheap.

How much would an evening at a pub cost ?? -- unless you whinge about that too !! :grin:


Well said :clap:


I'm not poo pooing the event however its not just the entry though is it, with petrol & any drinks & snacks I'd be looking at around £40

Oh and last nights trip to the pub including a meal & drinks cost me £15.49 and about £3 worth of petrol
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Inthrustwetrust
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by Inthrustwetrust »

Domvickery wrote:
RRconway wrote:
chipmunk22 wrote:Why don`t all the armchair whingers stop bleating ?? :mad:
If £20 -- odd quid to see a shack run is too much, don`t go --- SIMPLE !!

Personally, I think it is good value,and hope to be there.As they say - Fuel ain`t cheap.

How much would an evening at a pub cost ?? -- unless you whinge about that too !! :grin:


Well said :clap:


I'm not poo pooing the event however its not just the entry though is it, with petrol & any drinks & snacks I'd be looking at around £40

Oh and last nights trip to the pub including a meal & drinks cost me £15.49 and about £3 worth of petrol


Fair point but not many working Shaks down the local pub mate :wink:
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richw_82
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by richw_82 »

Numbers stand at 45 attending out of 75 places available so far.

I understand to some degree the individual travel cost being brought into the calculation, but short of living in Baginton, Cubbington or one of the other surrounding villages to the Airport all of us have to travel to get to where the Shack is located. I live on the Derbyshire/South Yorkshire border, so its not exactly next door for me.

Kind regards,

Rich
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by NAM Updater »

Good luck with selling the remainder of the places - still some time left to do so.

I was tempted to join you myself but some NAM commitments mean that I won't be able to - sorry!

Nothing beats WR963 rattling away the cobwebs - JC invited me down a few years ago to experience a ground-run from inside the aircraft; it was brilliant! :up:
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richw_82
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by richw_82 »

Thanks Howard! Shame you can't make it over, it would have been good to have a chat.

I'll be over to see you soon at NAM, we have a spare gunners windscreen which may benefit WR977.
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by NAM Updater »

Hi Rich I would have enjoyed renewing my acquaintance with WR963, but it will be my shout for coffee when you manage to get over to Newark. :up:

Once again good luck with selling out tickets for your event.
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flashman8
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by flashman8 »

RRconway wrote:
chipmunk22 wrote:Why don`t all the armchair whingers stop bleating ?? :mad:
If £20 -- odd quid to see a shack run is too much, don`t go --- SIMPLE !!

Personally, I think it is good value,and hope to be there.As they say - Fuel ain`t cheap.

How much would an evening at a pub cost ?? -- unless you whinge about that too !! :grin:


Well said :clap:


I`ll second that............. :clap: :clap:
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AndyXH558
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by AndyXH558 »

I agree with everything chipmunk has said. I would'nt mind the original person who said this has never actually been to a nightshoot at Northolt.

Rich Unfortunately I am unable to come that night but I will donate £15 to the fund instead.
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Ruislip Rustler
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by Ruislip Rustler »

Indeed. Once again a nightshoot is the in-vogue cash cow, yet the same people paying for these events complain about an airshow ticket costing £20-25 for a full day's flying.

£20 to shoot one airframe under some spotlights is expensive, no two ways about it.

Wasn't the last Northolt event something like £30 minimum "donation"? That's getting towards the ticket price of a major airshow.


A welcome return to form for UKAR's village idiot...

I'm sure, Dan, having attended exactly NONE of these nightshoots at Northolt, you know exactly why we ask for a minimum donation (def: "an act or instance of presenting something as a gift, grant, or contribution") for photographers to attend an event. They are held - just in case it had slipped from your ill-informed mind, to generate funds for a building restoration project on the station. No public funds are available, so we have to find other revenue streams (to use modern parlance for a historical artefact). To that end, successive Station Commanders have given their permission for aircraft to be invited for the purpose of night photography, the proceeds of which are then provided for the work required.

The project in question is Building 27 - the 'Sir Keith Park Building' - which is the birthplace of air defence for the Battle of Britain, having been the prototype station operations rooms for Fighter Command.

Our last event was attended by just short of 200 photographers. All of them paid the minimum donation of £25 - the first price increase since our first nightshoot - and some VOLUNTARILY (def: "of one's own accord or by free choice", "proceeding from a natural impulse; spontaneous ") gave more as they feel we provide good value for money. On SOME occasions - not all - we ask for a supplement of £5 to HELP COVER THE COSTS of crew accommodation (a key factor in attracting certain Air Arms). Sometimes - not always - we can place crews in on-base rooms, but these are frequently at a premium and reserved for official use ahead of crews for our events. Hotel rooms in west London aren't particularly cheap either, but I'm sure you're fully aware of that also. For our latest event, several aircraft cancelled at the last minute and we couldn't reduce/not charge the surcharge as we still had to pay for the unused rooms.

The surcharge also helps to OFFSET other charges that sometimes crop up such as paying for the balance of the fuel requested by the Bronco (400 litres from a total of 1,400 - the balance being kindly donated by an on-base supplier).

So, in round numbers: let's say 190 people attended at £25/head = £4,750, add on 190 x £5 surcharge (£950) and this gives us an income of £5,700.

We can now subtract the cost of hotel accommodation - 15 rooms @ £80 = £1,200 and 400 litres of fuel, £600.

Therefore, income of £5,700 less costs of £1,800 leave a balance for the pot of £3,900 which is then used to pay for another six months' work on Building 27. (The income does not include Gift Aid which, for those who ticked the box, will generate another 25p in the pound).

I hope this clears things up for you (and anyone else who wonders where the money goes) and, in future, I hope that next time you have a question, I'm sure, as any well-meaning journalist would do, you'll ask first rather than assume.
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RRconway
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by RRconway »

Well said Lee. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

If you want to talk about cash cows Dan, then you need look no further than the 'industry' that I am led to believe, pays you a good part of your wages.
£25 - £30 is the average match day cost, and that is not for the top flight clubs and before you even start talking about season tickets and ridiculously priced merchandise and replica strips, that I know for a fact, parents will go without to make sure there child has the same as everyone else, that is extortion and disgraceful.
What's more, that IS all about making profit and benefits no-one but the club and its backers and its over paid pretentious players.

The money from these nightshoots goes towards maintaining and in Phils case restoring significant items of this country's important history.
This money is used for purchasing materials for the Building 27 restoration, as Lee has said.
The labour for this project, comes, for 99% of the time from Phil, and for gratis. I also happen to know that members of the UKAR community have helped out in more practical ways, other than just financial.

For someone who claims to be so knowledgable and interested in that history and its artefacts you show a strange way of demonstrating and supporting it.
I know you think you understood what I said, but I'm not sure you realise that what I said is not what I meant.

DanO1978
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by DanO1978 »

Oh, the tired schtick of comparing of football to airshows again? :roll:

My issue with Northolt is simply that what they call a "donation" is in reality a ticket price. Can't see why they don't just call it what it is! A donation implies that it is voluntary. Would you be given access without paying it? If not, therefore it's a ticket!

I'm well aware than funds go towards the restoration project, which is an excellent cause. Call it what it is though, eh?

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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by NAM Updater »

I would suspect it's called a 'donation' so that it qualifies for Gift Aid and thereby adds a significant amount to their income (25p for every £1 paid); this is specified in HMRC rules.

Here at NAM we call them Gift Aided Donation [G.A.D] for 'admissions' made under that scheme; which if we can ever get the new online HMRC system to work will net us a significant five figure sum each year.

NAM Gift Aided Visit info.

Keep up the great work on Building 27. :clap:
Last edited by NAM Updater on Mon 03 Nov 2014, 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DanO1978
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by DanO1978 »

That would appear to explain it, then. :clap:

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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by NAM Updater »

:up:
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RRconway
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by RRconway »

DanO1978 wrote:Oh, the tired schtick of comparing of football to airshows again? :roll:


Yes Dan. You're the one that called it a cash cow, and implied it wasn't value for money, so the point is entirely valid.
If you can't see the facts of comparing the two for what they are, that's not my fault.

DanO1978 wrote:My issue with Northolt is simply that what they call a "donation" is in reality a ticket price. Can't see why they don't just call it what it is! A donation implies that it is voluntary. Would you be given access without paying it? If not, therefore it's a ticket!

I'm well aware than funds go towards the restoration project, which is an excellent cause. Call it what it is though, eh?


Then why the cash cow comments Dan? Surely all of the projects, Building27, The Shackleton or any of the others are equally good causes?
I know you think you understood what I said, but I'm not sure you realise that what I said is not what I meant.

DanO1978
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by DanO1978 »

Oh do be quiet.

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CJS
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by CJS »

Rule 26: As far as is possible, all threads should degenerate into something in between mild bickering and all out grumpiness within two pages (preferably one). The exception to this rule is when certain members are involved (see sub rule 26a - members who are allowed to be ignored and / or rounded upon pretty much constantly). In these cases, the thread should degenerate within 2 replies.

The initial point of the thread, or the opinions of those posting to it, should not be taken into account when ensuring this happens. Furthermore, the use by any member of any phrase commonly in use in the English language, which does not offer unconditional support to the original poster and their cause, should be leapt upon by as many others as possible and used as a stick with which to beat them.

Failure to comply with this rule will result in you being tickled on the armpit with a wet toothbrush.

Or having your message deleted, whichever the moderators decide would be more painful.

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RRconway
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by RRconway »

DanO1978 wrote:Oh do be quiet.


:lmao: :lmao: :whistle: :whistle:
I know you think you understood what I said, but I'm not sure you realise that what I said is not what I meant.

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CameronSys
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by CameronSys »

Calm down everyone! The money goes to a good cause and we all know it is a ticket price, which without paying you couldn't gain access to the event.

Put it this way, if some people didn't pay, then what makes them special? Why did others have to pay when the individuals who consider the payment voluntary didn't pay?

It's going to be a great event, and let's all look forward to it, if you're not going then ok fair enough, but why moan endlessly?

Peace guys (please...),

Cameron

Flare Path
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by Flare Path »

AndyXH558 wrote:Rich Unfortunately I am unable to come that night but I will donate £15 to the fund instead.


I don't think that's necessary, if you're not going.

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CameronSys
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Re: WR963 Nightshoot / Night run

Post by CameronSys »

Flare Path wrote:
AndyXH558 wrote:Rich Unfortunately I am unable to come that night but I will donate £15 to the fund instead.


I don't think that's necessary, if you're not going.


It isn't necessary, it's kind and I am sure will be welcomed by the SPT, good man Andy!