Gnat crash at CarFest

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by Brevet Cable »

boff180 wrote:Because the Press have a very nasty habit of watching forums like this and taking "speculative" reasons posted by members and publishing them as fact.
If the journos want both speculation and information about the pilot's service , they'll likely go to their usual source -- PPRuNe. Plenty of both on there , primarily from current & ex- RAF pilots.
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Offbreed
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by Offbreed »

PPRuNe is the go-to forum, if you want speculation and info regarding a plane crash, UKAR tends to be more of a book of condolence.
You take your pick.

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XL391
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by XL391 »

hardtarget wrote:
Scampi wrote:Can we please stop all speculation and guess work for crying out loud!


Why cant I?, That's the point of the public domain forum isn't it?. This isn't an exclusive place for the high almighty.

Anyway I'm asking for information/clarification on the operational use of a Gnat at LL in poor weather pulling G and stating an observation of the two events just as the CAA would do. I'm not speculating on what the cause of the crash was.


Turn it in pal.

Please.

Not the time or place. If you're that bothered try Google.

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andrewn
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by andrewn »

I was there and saw the accident; it was as awful as you might expect with the Gnat seeming to simply fall out of the sky - i know its a cliche, but that really was how it seemed from inside the venue, followed shortly afterwards by a brief fireball and then black smoke.

I'm also a local resident and attended the Sunday service specially where those present expressed their sadness and regret and made it clear that everyones thoughts were with Kevin Whymans family. Small consolation I know.

Blue skies and all that.

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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by Tangoringo. »

XL391 wrote:
hardtarget wrote:
Scampi wrote:Can we please stop all speculation and guess work for crying out loud!



There is always a certain element of trying to second guess the AAIB on these forums often leading to wildly inaccurate assumptions. Can I please quote the inimitable John Farley of harrier fame on PPrune (and I believe it is really he) ......

"Since we do not have any information about where the loss of power happened, or what speed or height was involved, anybody who suggests that what the pilot did may not have been for the best are saying more about themselves than the event.

JF"

This is in relation to the Spitfire incident at Biggin but is equally true of this event and many others. Let's us wait for the report to come out otherwise we make fools of ourselves by jumping to conclusions. I can think of no-one better to learn from than JF when it comes to aviation wisdom.

BTW I am not pointing the finger at anybody in particular before anybody takes offence.

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tankbuster81
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by tankbuster81 »

XL391 wrote:
hardtarget wrote:
Scampi wrote:Can we please stop all speculation and guess work for crying out loud!


Why cant I?, That's the point of the public domain forum isn't it?. This isn't an exclusive place for the high almighty.

Anyway I'm asking for information/clarification on the operational use of a Gnat at LL in poor weather pulling G and stating an observation of the two events just as the CAA would do. I'm not speculating on what the cause of the crash was.


Turn it in pal.

Please.

Not the time or place. If you're that bothered try Google.


And that's it in a nutshell. We don't need speculation, theories or stories about what "might" have happened in the past.Tragic Accident,which will hopefully be explained in the month's to come by relevant experts.For now a Family are without a father and husband,The Gnat Display team and all friend's of the pilot are grieving.And we as an Airshow forum are all feeling there pain.Now let's await factual evidence and reports.
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tankbuster
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by tankbuster »

tankbuster81 wrote:
XL391 wrote:
hardtarget wrote:
Scampi wrote:Can we please stop all speculation and guess work for crying out loud!


Why cant I?, That's the point of the public domain forum isn't it?. This isn't an exclusive place for the high almighty.

Anyway I'm asking for information/clarification on the operational use of a Gnat at LL in poor weather pulling G and stating an observation of the two events just as the CAA would do. I'm not speculating on what the cause of the crash was.


Turn it in pal.

Please.

Not the time or place. If you're that bothered try Google.




And that's it in a nutshell. We don't need speculation, theories or stories about what "might" have happened in the past.Tragic Accident,which will hopefully be explained in the month's to come by relevant experts.For now a Family are without a father and husband,The Gnat Display team and all friend's of the pilot are grieving.And we as an Airshow forum are all feeling there pain.Now let's await factual evidence and reports.


You are absolutely right of course but you have as much chance of stopping speculation as I have of stopping the sun from rising. Even the BBC really get my back up when just a couple of hours after an accident, the extremely well educated and intelligent presenter says "and I have with me Mr very important Avgeek, well Mr very important Avgeek , what do you think the cause of this accident was". As Mr Avgeek always says it's too early to speculate how come the BBC presenter doesn't get the message and ask something more sensible.
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benpk1
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by benpk1 »

Having seen the three ship display at Culdrose on Thursday and having watched the Hunter display both there and today at my local (Shuttleworth) I feel a great sense of sadness of this tragic incident. I have a great admiration for the dedication and skills involved in keeping classic aircraft alive and flying. Any high performance racing / entertainment is risky, but should be kept as safe as possible. I trust the experts will identify the cause and hopefully help prevent another incident of this type. I truly hope that this tragic incident does not finish the Gnat display team or curb other similar display teams. RIP Kevin Whyman.

Alanko
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by Alanko »

A bad weekend for aviation. I was saddened to hear the loss of the Gnat and for the family of the pilot.

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Harvo266
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by Harvo266 »

I'm sure many of you including myself have experienced death of a close friend or family member. In that respect I think it's is best to respect the family/friends privacy and understand that they are going through one of the worst times in their life and that they don't want to hear a load of people guessing as to why their husband/father/friend was killed. Imagine if for example family member A died in a car accident and all you saw on Facebook was "they probably were on their phone" or "they almost did the same thing a few months back". You wouldn't like to hear this so I think we should all just keep our mouths closed. The AAIB will know exactly why it happened and that is all that matters.
This is coming from me who is 16 years old so I think some of you who are adults should know better.

Stagger2
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by Stagger2 »

Wise head on young shoulders you have Harvo266 :clap:
I concur! :-X

Gareth V
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by Gareth V »

Harvo266 wrote:I'm sure many of you including myself have experienced death of a close friend or family member. In that respect I think it's is best to respect the family/friends privacy and understand that they are going through one of the worst times in their life and that they don't want to hear a load of people guessing as to why their husband/father/friend was killed. Imagine if for example family member A died in a car accident and all you saw on Facebook was "they probably were on their phone" or "they almost did the same thing a few months back". You wouldn't like to hear this so I think we should all just keep our mouths closed. The AAIB will know exactly why it happened and that is all that matters.
This is coming from me who is 16 years old so I think some of you who are adults should know better.


What he said! Whilst many will have pressing issues, unless you are a Gnat pilot or someone with experience of the said jet then blurting out speculation isn't a great idea. Even putting aside the obvious and somewhat horrific disrespect it shows to loved ones of the pilot, speculation also has the problem that it misinforms and as a result "educates" people with "facts" which are... well not facts! As others have said - wait until facts are published, as speculating has little to no value at a time like this. The only facts that we as enthusiasts should be taking stock of is that a pilot... a human being has lost his life, he leaves behind a wife and daughter, not to mention a huge hole in the lives of those close to him. Kevin lost his life in a role which thrilled audiences across the country and a role in which something went terribly wrong at the weekend. Kevin was still young, with so much ahead of him.... these are the REAL facts which we should be keeping in mind. Now is not a time to preempt the matters at hand, rather let us mourn the loss of a great pilot and more importantly a great man.
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Ray Purchase
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by Ray Purchase »

I think we get it now that speculation is a bad thing, as has been repeated over and over again.

Can we let it rest now.
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vulcan558
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by vulcan558 »

hardtarget wrote:
Scampi wrote:Can we please stop all speculation and guess work for crying out loud!


Why cant I?, That's the point of the public domain forum isn't it?. This isn't an exclusive place for the high almighty.

Anyway I'm asking for information/clarification on the operational use of a Gnat at LL in poor weather pulling G and stating an observation of the two events just as the CAA would do. I'm not speculating on what the cause of the crash was.

Easy question to answer, the Gnat was used for many years by theYellow jacks display team, then the Red arrows. So its very well capable of display flying.

rob68
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by rob68 »

Chris Evans spoke about the incident on Radio 2 this morning followed by ELO Mr Blue Sky. Respect as he didn't have to. Respect to Kev and his family

5944
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by 5944 »

rob68 wrote:Chris Evans spoke about the incident on Radio 2 this morning followed by ELO Mr Blue Sky. Respect as he didn't have to. Respect to Kev and his family

That's good. He wasn't on yesterday's show, which is pretty understandable after the weekend's events.

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not_the_dj
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by not_the_dj »

rob68 wrote:Chris Evans spoke about the incident on Radio 2 this morning followed by ELO Mr Blue Sky. Respect as he didn't have to. Respect to Kev and his family


I missed that but my wife told me about it so I caught it on the radio app. Very moving, and he was obviously holding back the tears.

It was broadcast about 8:15 IIRC so 1hr45 into the show.

I'll add my condolences to this thread, just so sad.

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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by timuss »

not_the_dj wrote:
rob68 wrote:Chris Evans spoke about the incident on Radio 2 this morning followed by ELO Mr Blue Sky. Respect as he didn't have to. Respect to Kev and his family


I missed that but my wife told me about it so I caught it on the radio app. Very moving, and he was obviously holding back the tears.

It was broadcast about 8:15 IIRC so 1hr45 into the show.

I'll add my condolences to this thread, just so sad.


Very nicely done as well :clap:
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rambo
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by rambo »

To be fair, I would like to think that anyone who knows a lot about flying and aerodynamics would have their opinion on it, and to me it seems fairly conclusive going by past events, but the worry is the press I suppose. So I can understand why speculation is bad on an open forum, but that is the world today, and the press will print anything just to make a story!

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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by Traveller »

Flare Path wrote:
neilos wrote:
FarnboroughDude32 wrote:Wasn't that incident at Abingdon where he also went to low? Wasn't that the red arrows liveried jet too? Maybe they should have investigated further and this wouldn't have happened. Very sad, RIP Kevin. :sad:


FarnboroughDude32 wrote:Oh, ok so that wasn't (what was) the red arrows jet, but it could have been a fault with multiple gnats.


Seriously!!, are you for real?....... :mad:

:sad:


The enthusiast will not forget instances like Abingdon, Culdrose and Shawbury - a fine team, for sure, but many minor things will eventually lead to one major event and sadly this has proven to be the case. Never been convinced the team have looked all that sharp in their displays and a carelessness in the routine, particularly in poor weather, has been a problem in the past.

I would be interested to know whether this was the same Jet that had a problem, prior to East Fortune. I believe they were unable to make their slot?

Obviously, nobody should lose their life in these circumstances and my thoughts are with the team and family.


You know the more I think about these incidents the more I think a huge shock is coming sometime (from CAA or whoever). Without even looking up details I can recall off the top of my head Red Arrows, these Gnats, various Duxford crashes, Victor gets airborne, Lancaster fire, Lancaster ground loop, Spitfires having many incidents like just now. One day there will be a further clamping down I bet on such 'warbirds'.

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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by rambo »

is it me or are there posts missing??

Traveller
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by Traveller »

Yep, had a completely non-controversial one deleted above. I pointed out what I saw in the video and what I thought. Just as many others have done in the past on here. I now expect that every single post commenting on aspects of any accident, even guess work, will be deleted and not allowed. To not do so would smack of selective and non-consistent moderation.

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boff180
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Re: Gnat crash at CarFest

Post by boff180 »

Or... Deliberately speculating after a point staff members have quite clearly shown there is to be no speculation on here....

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