Shoreham and ' media experts'

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Vodka
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Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by Vodka »

I've specifically kept this seperate from the Shoreham thread, though it is on the back of some dreadful reporting from the media in the last 24 hours on such a tragic event that has both angered and frustrated me. I'm perhaps not alone on this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p030gphs

I suspect many would have heard this 'expert' earlier this morning. Unfortunately with such shocking events of yesterday, so called ' experts' come to frontline to give their expert opinions too often!

I'm quite knowledgeable of aviation but wouldn't in my wildest dreams ever consider myself an expert in aviation. Having a passion of aviation, with some low number of flying hours, attending air shows, museums, reading books and watching various documentaries over 40 years certainly makes me reasonably knowledgeable but never an expert! Definitely not someone who would give an expert opinion on the events of yesterday on national radio! I have worked in the media for many years and know how it works at most levels. Cheap journalism is coming too common and do wish that they would vet their so called ‘experts’ they call upon to interview at times like these.

Of course the media has a part to play but these people, these so called experts, who pop their heads above the parapet for their 5 minutes of fame, or in this case three minutes and four seconds of stupidity really should be held to account? At least outline their ‘expert credentials’

Nicholas Hair . . ?

I was trying to find some info on this ‘aviation expert’ and perhaps get a better understanding of such credentials that permit him to make such a public statement on national radio stating such . . . rubbish!

Is it the same Nicolas Hair who is a ‘newcomer journalist’ for Rail.co.uk ?

http://www.rail.co.uk/our-contributors/

Perhaps it is the same 21 year old, I can’t be sure?

Though here’s what might be a relevant facebook page for Monsieur Hair, ‘aviation expert’ ?

https://www.facebook.com/ndhair/media_set?set=a.10150442957207890.358898.697867889&type=3https://www.facebook.com/ndhair

Perhaps the same Nicholas Hair might wish to clarify some of his comments and outline the expert credentials he holds. Perhaps he is CAA. AAIB ? or holds a relevant qualification in aero sciences ?
Perhaps he has a GSCE in 'Red propeller planes?' Duke of Edinburgh Bronze award for navigation 'North-South up down'

Who knows?

Nicholas, if you’re out there, let your public hear you once again?

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tommo999
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by tommo999 »

Credentials aside, I thought he spoke much more sense than any of the other 'experts' I've heard floating around the news!

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centaurus18
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by centaurus18 »

Looks like the chap who named the pilot this morning on BBC at 0700hrs, without it being officially announced.
Mark
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frank
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by frank »

Leaving aside his credentials or not, I didn't really hear anything that would make my blood boil to be honest.
I felt he gave balanced replies to questions and he wasn't scaremongering. With yesterday's events so fresh in everyone's mind he was quite considered and reassuring.
What has made you so upset
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Ray Purchase
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by Ray Purchase »

That was the best full English breakfast I've had since Gary Wilmot's wedding.

King Cobra
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by King Cobra »

Vodka wrote:I've specifically kept this seperate from the Shoreham thread, though it is on the back of some dreadful reporting from the media in the last 24 hours on such a tragic event that has both angered and frustrated me. I'm perhaps not alone on this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p030gphs

I suspect many would have heard this 'expert' earlier this morning. Unfortunately with such shocking events of yesterday, so called ' experts' come to frontline to give their expert opinions too often!

I'm quite knowledgeable of aviation but wouldn't in my wildest dreams ever consider myself an expert in aviation. Having a passion of aviation, with some low number of flying hours, attending air shows, museums, reading books and watching various documentaries over 40 years certainly makes me reasonably knowledgeable but never an expert! Definitely not someone who would give an expert opinion on the events of yesterday on national radio! I have worked in the media for many years and know how it works at most levels. Cheap journalism is coming too common and do wish that they would vet their so called ‘experts’ they call upon to interview at times like these.

Of course the media has a part to play but these people, these so called experts, who pop their heads above the parapet for their 5 minutes of fame, or in this case three minutes and four seconds of stupidity really should be held to account? At least outline their ‘expert credentials’

Nicholas Hair . . ?

I was trying to find some info on this ‘aviation expert’ and perhaps get a better understanding of such credentials that permit him to make such a public statement on national radio stating such . . . rubbish!

Is it the same Nicolas Hair who is a ‘newcomer journalist’ for Rail.co.uk ?

http://www.rail.co.uk/our-contributors/

Perhaps it is the same 21 year old, I can’t be sure?

Though here’s what might be a relevant facebook page for Monsieur Hair, ‘aviation expert’ ?

https://www.facebook.com/ndhair/media_set?set=a.10150442957207890.358898.697867889&type=3https://www.facebook.com/ndhair

Perhaps the same Nicholas Hair might wish to clarify some of his comments and outline the expert credentials he holds. Perhaps he is CAA. AAIB ? or holds a relevant qualification in aero sciences ?
Perhaps he has a GSCE in 'Red propeller planes?' Duke of Edinburgh Bronze award for navigation 'North-South up down'

Who knows?

Nicholas, if you’re out there, let your public hear you once again?


According to a mate of mine who knows him, he is indeed same Herr Hair as the railway journalist you mention.

cg_341
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by cg_341 »

tommo999 wrote:Credentials aside, I thought he spoke much more sense than any of the other 'experts' I've heard floating around the news!

That's a poorly written attempt at humour, I take it? Did you actually listen to his 5Live interview?

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boff180
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by boff180 »

Until the true experts in this matter, the investigators of the AAIB, have completed their investigation, anyone who claims to be an "expert" of any kind is in my opinion speculating and feeding a sensationalist media fire.

Until the report and its recommendations (if any) are published, the industry experts should (in my opinion) steer clear of the main stream media who will pick up on the slightest word or statement and run with it. Case in point the BBC today.

There are already enough sensationalist illinformed speculative disrespectful people trying to put their point across already, case in point the BBC Radio 4 personality yesterday who made the public statement on twitter that loops should be banned making the (completely incorrect) claim that the Gnat was also performing a loop.

I'm no expert, don't claim to be, however I'm sure that many of the UKAR Staff team and our forum members know far more than these people about this subject. You don't see us asking to appear on BBC to speculate about it now do you?

Andy

jon93
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by jon93 »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but to be deemed an expert by the AAIB you need to be an aerospace/aeronautical/aircraft engineer as well as a qualified and experienced pilot before they even think of taking you on.

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DanH
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by DanH »

jon93 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but to be deemed an expert by the AAIB you need to be an aerospace/aeronautical/aircraft engineer as well as a qualified and experienced pilot before they even think of taking you on.


Whereas it would seem that in order to be deemed an expert by the media, all you need is to be able to say the word 'plane'.
Always seeking to lower the tone...

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AlexC
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by AlexC »

jon93 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but to be deemed an expert by the AAIB you need to be an aerospace/aeronautical/aircraft engineer as well as a qualified and experienced pilot before they even think of taking you on.


If so, (and I'd think that you must be correct) that's a very sensible attitude for them to take, indeed in the modern expression 'a no brainer', assuming that that means what I think it does?
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP

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DerekF
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by DerekF »

You don't need to be a pilot to be an accident investigator. They have different categories of investigator.

Hard though it might be for some to believe, it is possible to be an expert and have a great knowledge of aircraft and flying without being a pilot.

cg_341
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by cg_341 »

Reading any AAIB report will give you an insight in to the people they need...

jon93
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by jon93 »

DerekF wrote:You don't need to be a pilot to be an accident investigator. They have different categories of investigator.

Hard though it might be for some to believe, it is possible to be an expert and have a great knowledge of aircraft and flying without being a pilot.

Thanks that answers my query that I have had for some time as to whether or not you had to be a pilot and engineer, I would have thought the engineer part would be more crucial than the pilot part. As for 'media experts' well we could all probably be famous now if we were as desperate as some so called "experts" are to get there 5 minutes of fame.

Orion
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by Orion »

There an awful lot of dementia being exhibited on this thread. The media's coverage is just about the same as might be expected for any event including such things as elections. They have to sell newspapers in order to survive. Simple as that, dog eat dog. If it is not liked by posters, then try to invent an alternative way of presenting the news.

As for the pilot's name, he was, I believe, named in the show's programme and his name is simply being repeated from the programme. It has not been denied by Shoreham.

I wish him well and I hope he recovers although I would doubt if a full recovery is possible from such an accident. I also pass on the same good wishes to the families and friends of the victims and those who are dealing with the trauma of watching such an event. I think I'm very fortunate to have made a very late decision not to go.

Regards
David Mylchreest

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DerekF
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by DerekF »

If an accident involved a baggage door opening in flight for example, an engineering input will be of more value than a pilot's . Yesterday's accident will involve pilots as well as engineers I would have thought.

yrret
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by yrret »

I listened to half of the so called "expert" then turned off, it was frankly embarrassing.

FGR2
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by FGR2 »

Orion wrote:As for the pilot's name, he was, I believe, named in the show's programme and his name is simply being repeated from the programme. It has not been denied by Shoreham.


A different pilot is named in the programme.

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boff180
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by boff180 »

This article just was bought to my attention on Twitter.

100% fact, no sensationalism or speculation, this is what the press should be reporting.....

http://vintageaeroplanewriter.blogspot. ... afety.html

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Pringles
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by Pringles »

boff180 wrote:This article just was bought to my attention on Twitter.

100% fact, no sensationalism or speculation, this is what the press should be reporting.....

http://vintageaeroplanewriter.blogspot. ... afety.html

Andy

Absolutely, a clearly knowledgeable writer and he has dispelled some of the myths of the incident and attempts to 'put right' much of what has been reported in the media :clap:
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Glosterbloke
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by Glosterbloke »

boff180 wrote:This article just was bought to my attention on Twitter.

100% fact, no sensationalism or speculation, this is what the press should be reporting.....

http://vintageaeroplanewriter.blogspot. ... afety.html

Andy


Now if the media weren't so busy trying to outdo each other.............. fat chance I know. Personally I'm sharing the link on FB in the hope some may actually read it instead of trying to find the most sensationalist images/punditry.

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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by tankbuster »

boff180 wrote:This article just was bought to my attention on Twitter.

100% fact, no sensationalism or speculation, this is what the press should be reporting.....

http://vintageaeroplanewriter.blogspot. ... afety.html

Andy


What an incredibly well written piece. A pity that the new media couldn't publish it everywhere.
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DerekF
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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by DerekF »

boff180 wrote:This article just was bought to my attention on Twitter.

100% fact, no sensationalism or speculation, this is what the press should be reporting.....

http://vintageaeroplanewriter.blogspot. ... afety.html

Andy


It is indeed a well written article but is hardly what the media could or indeed should be reporting as it contains no "news" - all it does it state that an aircraft crashed through unknown causes and is being investigated. At best it would be background information. We all want want much more information than that and to feed that need, the media tries to get as much information as quickly as possible. Accuracy will inevitably suffer as indeed we have seen on this very forum several times. If we are really saying that nothing should be reported until the "facts" are established then I'm afraid we need to "get real".

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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by AlexC »

I agree that it's a very good article. The only comment that I'd make is that the 'bystander members of the public' killed at Farnborough were all on the airfield watching the airshow (as far as I know) but the people killed and injured yesterday were not, they just happened to be passing on the A27 at the time.
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP

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Re: Shoreham and ' media experts'

Post by Orion »

FGR2 wrote:
Orion wrote:As for the pilot's name, he was, I believe, named in the show's programme and his name is simply being repeated from the programme. It has not been denied by Shoreham.


A different pilot is named in the programme.

The Guardian is quoting a name from the programme. He seems to be pretty eminent man. David Learmont, a man I respect, is also quoted with what I consider to be sensible remarks.

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David Mylchreest

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