Save Vulcan Petition

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Gareth V
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Save Vulcan Petition

Post by Gareth V »

I stumbled across a Vulcan petition today. I have not seen this posted on here, and a quick flick through the many many pages on the official Vulcan thread I did not see it (though may have missed it). Please please please don't turn this into a debate on the future of Vulcan, or debate whether the petition is worthwhile etc, save Vulcan debate for the official Vulcan thread.

For those wishing to sign the petition it can be found here:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104358

It is not run by me, but I know many of us are fond of the tin triangle so I thought i'd share it.
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flashman8
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by flashman8 »

signed....................... :yahoo:

is this on FB?

I forgot to click the link to share it on there........... :oops:
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Pringles
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by Pringles »

I've already signed it but I can't see it changing anything. I'm treating RIAT as the last time I will see her fly
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by KyleG »

Another one? :cuppa:
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Glosterbloke
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by Glosterbloke »

With the recent media excesses is it really a good idea to ask for an (old)aircraft to be made exempt from the current rules?

Steve p
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by Steve p »

Signed, my 9 year son said it all during our recent visit to the RAF museum at Cosford, i want to see some of them flying and hear what they sounded like he asked, after i explained some of the reasons why none of them could fly he looked a little disappointed.

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HeyfordDave111
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by HeyfordDave111 »

No OEM support, no flight. Simple really, and why people dont understand that, i really cannot fathom!

Things aint gonna change, she's going to be lost and forgotten at DRH whether we like it or not. :wall:
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silver fox
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by silver fox »

HeyfordDave111 wrote:No OEM support, no flight. Simple really, and why people dont understand that, i really cannot fathom!

Things aint gonna change, she's going to be lost and forgotten at DRH whether we like it or not. :wall:


Sums it up clearly, perhaps the petition should be aimed at those who have given OEM support, won't make any difference I imagine, for me I feel that we have been lucky to get the chance to see the Vulcan fly long after she should have become a static display, there are sadly a fair number of iconic aircraft which will never get their wheels off the ground again.

Gareth V
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by Gareth V »

HeyfordDave111 wrote:No OEM support, no flight. Simple really, and why people dont understand that, i really cannot fathom!

Things aint gonna change, she's going to be lost and forgotten at DRH whether we like it or not. :wall:


:wall: I knew someone was going to go down this route and believe me Dave, I could put forward a compelling debate which would demonstrate that the matter is nowhere near as simple as you proclaim. I did however state that I didn't want to start a debate and I am going to take the moral high ground on this one and resist the temptation to speak my mind. If you don't want to sign, that's cool... but if others want to make their support for Vulcan known who are you to criticise their belief in unity among enthusiasts who feel that their voice can make a difference?
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aviodromefriend
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by aviodromefriend »

Quoting one of the people working for VTST at http://www.vulcantothesky.org/smf/index.php?topic=7218.msg75130#new
and these petitions are most unlikely to change the OEMs and support organisations minds.
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CJS
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by CJS »

Usually I would advocate letting a thread run its natural cause, and if that takes it somewhere else entirely then fine, but I think in this case the OP's intentions were very clearly stated. Perhaps the Vulcan debates need to be saved for the 558 thread. Gareth was just pointing out the existence of the petition.

Can't this one locked or merged with the main Vulcan thread?
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Gareth V
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by Gareth V »

CJS wrote:Usually I would advocate letting a thread run its natural cause, and if that takes it somewhere else entirely then fine, but I think in this case the OP's intentions were very clearly stated. Perhaps the Vulcan debates need to be saved for the 558 thread. Gareth was just pointing out the existence of the petition.

Can't this one locked or merged with the main Vulcan thread?


Thanks CJS, what you say is spot on :) I really didn't want this thread to descend into a debate as like you say I was merely trying to share it with those who may have been interested. I had opted not to put it in to the main Vulcan thread for that very reason, as if I am honest I am fed up of the repetitive arguments for and against Vulcan and its fate after this season, seeing as there is so much conflict of opinion on the matter I thought separating it from the debate thread was the best thing to do given the intentions of my post, sadly despite my pleas from the offset there are some who seem to want to turn anything with the V word into a massive debate.
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Wissam24
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by Wissam24 »

Yeah because the OEMS were very obviously totally oblivious to the aircrafts popularity. I'm sure a few signatures will convince them that they were wrong to make their carefully measured and weighed decisions.
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Lins
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by Lins »

Gareth V wrote:I stumbled across a Vulcan petition today. I have not seen this posted on here, and a quick flick through the many many pages on the official Vulcan thread I did not see it (though may have missed it). Please please please don't turn this into a debate on the future of Vulcan, or debate whether the petition is worthwhile etc, save Vulcan debate for the official Vulcan thread.

For those wishing to sign the petition it can be found here:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104358

It is not run by me, but I know many of us are fond of the tin triangle so I thought i'd share it.



Thank you.. signed. Even if people don't listen, it makes me feel better that they might just see we don't want to lose her.

DOUGHNUT
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by DOUGHNUT »

Maybe the petition should be directed at VTTS and be concerned about their long term plans for 558 ? VTTS only have one chance to land and shut down the Vulcan at the right place, it will not fly again. Much has been debated about Doncaster Airport being the correct place. I have not heard or read any response from VTTS which provides a secure future at Doncaster with regular engine running and fast taxi operations.

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speedbird2639
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by speedbird2639 »

HeyfordDave111 wrote:No OEM support, no flight. Simple really, and why people dont understand that, i really cannot fathom!


What Dave said. Its over - deal with it. When she was originally grounded 20+ years ago no one realistically expected her to fly again so just watch the dvds and youtube videos and enjoy it for what it was.

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CJS
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by CJS »

speedbird2639 wrote:
HeyfordDave111 wrote:No OEM support, no flight. Simple really, and why people dont understand that, i really cannot fathom!


What Dave said. Its over - deal with it. When she was originally grounded 20+ years ago no one realistically expected her to fly again so just watch the dvds and youtube videos and enjoy it for what it was.


I don't believe it will ever happen again either (nor particularly care either way) but you do rather argue against yourself within one sentence here I think :wink:
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speedbird2639
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by speedbird2639 »

Not really. 20 years ago everyone hoped she would one day come back but at that time no one had ever done something on that scale so no one knew what the hurdles and pitfalls were. At that time no one was talking abt OEM support just how much money it was going to cost.

This time they have bascially said the funding, knowledge and spares is there to continue but without the OEM support there is no sign off from the CAA so thats the end of it and no amount of petitions or money is going to change that.

They said they would fly her for 10 seasons - it turned out to be 8. We should be grateful we even got one season. As Sean Maffett has been saying at the displays this year "Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened".

Whilst I do love seeing her fly given the amount of hysteria she creates both inside the airshow community and with the wider public maybe her departure will encourage things to settle down and get 'back to normal' a little - its all become a little insane with the 'for' and 'against' groups attacking each other on forums and Facebook the whole time.

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Harvo266
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by Harvo266 »

As someone said to me, should we not just simply let it go before anything happens? What if the unexpected happened and this petition worked and she got airworthy for another period and she ended up crashing? Would we rather not ground it in one piece and treasure those great memories of her we had? Also since Shoreham's crash a lot of her displays will be affected by the new rules so surely we should treasure the memories of her doing it like she should do. I personally would hate it if she came back onto the circuit and only did weak, tame displays consisting of flypasts and not the strong, fierce displays that has been put on in previous years by the team at VTST.

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JetA1
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by JetA1 »

The OEM reason has been pushed by the TVOC this year I feel to disguise the fact and take the blame instead of the airframe and engines being out out of life. The airframes done more hrs than any other, and there are no more mods to extend the flying time past her (very low for civilian aircraft) 7500 flying hrs. And then the engines are limited to 1200 cycles which according to them they use 6 each per flying hour. So that makes 200 flying hrs per set, and 2 were destroyed by silica gel. So 8 years was about as good as we could have hoped or expected.

I'll miss the old girl, I got into the industry because of the Vulcan, but no matter how many petitions we do, or how much money could be raised, the airframe and engines are out of life. Warbirds still fly because piston engines can be relatively easily overhauled with a lathe and milling machine. An Olympus turbine blades a completely kettle of fish! All the tooling and skills ended in 1982.

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Paul_Reflex
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by Paul_Reflex »

I can't believe that people are buying this OEM support nonsense. Surely we all know the real reason for the decision to ground the vulcan - the sentimental fatigue life of Sean Maffett.

Since being retired by the RAF decades ago Sean has been a permanent fixture on the airshow circuit, but too many RIAT DVD commentaries where he told us how manoeuvrable the G222 is for an aircraft of its size sees him now running out of service life.

Its remarkable that he was restored as the vulcan commentator 8 yeaes ago, but the fatigue caused by referring to the vulcan as a sort of Spitfire/Princess Diana hybrid is extensive and it's not clear that there are enough available Dr Seuss quotes to keep him going.

I'm sure that TVOC are doing this for the best if reasons, no one wants to see some terrible disaster where Sean asks people to wave their umbrellas and ice creams at the aircraft as has happened with other commentators over the past few years.

XR219
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by XR219 »

JetA1 wrote:The OEM reason has been pushed by the TVOC this year I feel to disguise the fact and take the blame instead of the airframe and engines being out out of life. The airframes done more hrs than any other, and there are no more mods to extend the flying time past her (very low for civilian aircraft) 7500 flying hrs. And then the engines are limited to 1200 cycles which according to them they use 6 each per flying hour. So that makes 200 flying hrs per set, and 2 were destroyed by silica gel. So 8 years was about as good as we could have hoped or expected.

I'll miss the old girl, I got into the industry because of the Vulcan, but no matter how many petitions we do, or how much money could be raised, the airframe and engines are out of life. Warbirds still fly because piston engines can be relatively easily overhauled with a lathe and milling machine. An Olympus turbine blades a completely kettle of fish! All the tooling and skills ended in 1982.


The 'OEM reason' has been stated by VTTST, as it is the direct cause of the cessation of flying at the end of 2015. The last airframe mod released additional fatigue life (the critical factor, rather than hours), which would have been sufficient for about seven seasons, hence no longer a player. The remaining engine cycles on the available engines were believed sufficient for two more seasons, as the rate of cycle consumption has reduced in recent years, as a direct consequence of the significant remaining FI (post mod 2221) meaning that the aircraft could be operated in a more favourable window for the engines.

So unfortunately it is not true to say that the aircraft ran out of life due to the reduction to six available engines; that would have taken her out to 2017. Flying has to stop this year because OEM support will stop.
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Rory76
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by Rory76 »

Signed both of the petitions I've seen. Because I think it will make any difference? No, because I'd kick myself for years to come if they came out in a year or so's time and said "well if there had been more of a show from the public, we might have changed our minds". Why take the chance, there's nowt to lose by trying!
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Brevet Cable
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by Brevet Cable »

Despite the fact that I was a supporter of VTST for many years , I won't be signing any of the petitions.
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Pat Murphy
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Re: Save Vulcan Petition

Post by Pat Murphy »

Paul_Reflex wrote:I can't believe that people are buying this OEM support nonsense. Surely we all know the real reason for the decision to ground the vulcan - the sentimental fatigue life of Sean Maffett.

Since being retired by the RAF decades ago Sean has been a permanent fixture on the airshow circuit, but too many RIAT DVD commentaries where he told us how manoeuvrable the G222 is for an aircraft of its size sees him now running out of service life.

Its remarkable that he was restored as the vulcan commentator 8 yeaes ago, but the fatigue caused by referring to the vulcan as a sort of Spitfire/Princess Diana hybrid is extensive and it's not clear that there are enough available Dr Seuss quotes to keep him going.

I'm sure that TVOC are doing this for the best if reasons, no one wants to see some terrible disaster where Sean asks people to wave their umbrellas and ice creams at the aircraft as has happened with other commentators over the past few years.


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