S.D.S.R 2015

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Spiny Norman
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by Spiny Norman »

Cameron "Scotland is getting more Typhoons, more maritime patrol aircraft."

Lossie's going to be a busy place, assuming that Leuchars is to stay Army.

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ATrs.jules
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by ATrs.jules »

Spiny Norman wrote:Cameron "Scotland is getting more Typhoons, more maritime patrol aircraft."

Lossie's going to be a busy place, assuming that Leuchars is to stay Army.


hope theres enough room between the light stantions for the wing span of the P8`s
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Skyflash
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by Skyflash »

Spiny Norman wrote:Cameron "Scotland is getting more Typhoons, more maritime patrol aircraft."

Lossie's going to be a busy place, assuming that Leuchars is to stay Army.


Precisely the point I made on the last page.

Lossie is already full to bursting; even after the drawdown of the Tornado fleet it's still going to be a helluva busy field with the P-8s jostling for space with up to four Typhoon units.
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by davidjones533 »

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Last edited by davidjones533 on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Traveller
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by Traveller »

Are people actually moaning about Lossiemouth (being busy) here or just observing? Just cannot please some..................

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capercaillie
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by capercaillie »

ATrs.jules wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:Cameron "Scotland is getting more Typhoons, more maritime patrol aircraft."

Lossie's going to be a busy place, assuming that Leuchars is to stay Army.


hope theres enough room between the light stantions for the wing span of the P8`s


Haven't they just had three there for an exercise? :dunno:
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Brevet Cable
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by Brevet Cable »

Red Dragon wrote:So who wants to write a letter to Putin & IS asking them to behave until 2020 at least :roll:

And no doubt ISIL , A-Q & all the other terrorist groups who currently hate us are quaking in their boots.

Oh , and the possible identity of the un-named 'cheaper Frigate' CMD mentioned.....may not be a Frigate at all ( until they reclassify it :whistle: ) : https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/33686/20120503JCN112_Black_SwanU.pdf
In other words , something about the same size & performance of an enhanced ( Forth-class ) River-class OPV.
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by Skyflash »

Traveller wrote:Are people actually moaning about Lossiemouth (being busy) here or just observing? Just cannot please some..................


Observing, and expressing surprise.

Certainly not complaining! Granted even living here in Edinburgh it's still a 4.5 hour drive away...
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Red Dragon
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by Red Dragon »

Skyflash wrote:
Traveller wrote:Are people actually moaning about Lossiemouth (being busy) here or just observing? Just cannot please some..................


Observing, and expressing surprise.

Certainly not complaining! Granted even living here in Edinburgh it's still a 4.5 hour drive away...


Still a lot closer than us here in Wales! :grin:

Big Eric
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by Big Eric »

Skyflash wrote:
Traveller wrote:Are people actually moaning about Lossiemouth (being busy) here or just observing? Just cannot please some..................


Observing, and expressing surprise.

Certainly not complaining! Granted even living here in Edinburgh it's still a 4.5 hour drive away...


Four and a half hours !!!

What do you drive - a Massey Ferguson tractor? :lmao:

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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by Traveller »

They are just 737s people. Like Rivet is just a 707. And Voyager a A330. And Sentinel some bizjet. And Shadow a Kingair.

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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by capercaillie »

Traveller wrote:They are just 737s people. Like Rivet is just a 707. And Voyager a A330. And Sentinel some bizjet. And Shadow a Kingair.


No it isn't, if you're going to be flippant, at least get it right. :whistle:
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by davidjones533 »

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Last edited by davidjones533 on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FarnboroJohn
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by FarnboroJohn »

Brevet Cable wrote:
Red Dragon wrote:So who wants to write a letter to Putin & IS asking them to behave until 2020 at least :roll:

And no doubt ISIL , A-Q & all the other terrorist groups who currently hate us are quaking in their boots.

Oh , and the possible identity of the un-named 'cheaper Frigate' CMD mentioned.....may not be a Frigate at all ( until they reclassify it :whistle: ) : https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/33686/20120503JCN112_Black_SwanU.pdf
In other words , something about the same size & performance of an enhanced ( Forth-class ) River-class OPV.


Could have been worse, they might have been planning for a new Flower class Corvette. HMS Pansy anyone?

I would certainly hope they are thinking bigger (and particularly longer) than the fishery protection boats. Bouncing round the North Atlantic in a winter gale on HMS Severn wouldn't be my idea of a cruise. From what I've heard, the great thing about the Type 23s was that they were good sea boats. But if you don't want to be skidding about on one ear all the time, you need a hull that will bridge wave crests, not always be falling into troughs and rearing up over crests. Even professional sailors get seasick. Still, I don't suppose that matters to the House of Commons or the Treasury.

John

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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by boff180 »

Most likely a derivative of the Khareef Class

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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by sjt »

They should stick the two additional Typhoon squadrons into Leeming. What a waste of a great base and infrastrure that place is at the moment.
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Brevet Cable
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by Brevet Cable »

FarnboroJohn wrote:I would certainly hope they are thinking bigger (and particularly longer) than the fishery protection boats.
Nope....dimensions are similar to the Forth-class OPVs -- LOA 95m , Beam 15m , draught 4m ( as opposed to the nominally 91m x 14m x 4m of the Forth-class ) , the only difference being the displacement of 3200t compared to 2000t for the Forth.
Still , they could always use the crews of the MVMVs they're apparently binning.

boff180 wrote:Most likely a derivative of the Khareef Class

Which would be just as bad , as that's effectively a tarted-up River-class OPV.
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by Skyflash »

Big Eric wrote:
Skyflash wrote:
Traveller wrote:Are people actually moaning about Lossiemouth (being busy) here or just observing? Just cannot please some..................


Observing, and expressing surprise.

Certainly not complaining! Granted even living here in Edinburgh it's still a 4.5 hour drive away...


Four and a half hours !!!

What do you drive - a Massey Ferguson tractor? :lmao:


Erm... no.

If I leave my flat in Musselburgh at 5am I can be at the end of the runway at Lossiemouth for just after 9. I have never managed it any faster than this. So maybe four and a half hours is an overstatement, but only slightly.

I accept that if the A9 were not so unbelievably hideous a road it could be done much quicker.
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by HeyfordDave111 »

st24 wrote:
harkins wrote:So if it's 19 and 43 that means we're still not taking part in any Tiger Meets then??


I'm sure 230 and 814 will take umbrage at that!... :whistle:

So P-8s then eh? So that means we will get stripped down airframes and completely re-install our spec, new engines etc adding £20m to the cost, 20 tons extra weight and 5-10 years to the programme meaning they'll be redundant as they enter service. :up: Win.


Or never reach squadron service having technical issues, and delays means they will quietly be scrapped behind curtains at an airport somewhere! :biggrin:
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by Concorde216 »

Well, for once the armed forces are going to get some much needed cash.

I'm pleased that the RAF are getting an MPA, but disappointed that it is going to be a cruddy Boeing P8. Would love to have seen the P1 come into the RAF and give Boeing the middle finger.

I guess its history repeating itself, Nimrod AEW cancelled in favour of a Boeing in the 80s. In the 2010, Nimrod MRA4 cancelled in favour of (albeit eventually) Boeing. On both occasions, the blame lies firmly at BAe/BAE Systems door due to their utter incompetence in programme management and the Government for the excellent job they did of wasting money by cancelling the MRA4 which was on the verge of entering service for trials and now spending unnecessary money on it's replacement.

Talk about rubbing salt into an already deep wound. The yanks have once again won. :surrender:

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Brevet Cable
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by Brevet Cable »

Concorde216 wrote:Well, for once the armed forces are going to get some much needed cash.
The Armed Forces as a whole are getting the cash......unfortunately that doesn't extend to the troops -- pensions cuts , benefits cuts , allowance cuts , etc.
Hence why the Military are having retention problems due to so many of them PVR-ing or simply not extending their service.
CMD made a big thing of increasing the Reserves by 35,000.....who will make up a large number of these Reserves ? Yep , those same disgruntled people !!
You can just see how well that's going to go , can't you.
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patrouille2001
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by patrouille2001 »

I have not read anywhere where the P8 will be based at Lossiemouth, It only says a base in Scotland, Could they not start up Kinloss again or Leuchars ?. :question: Paul

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Brevet Cable
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by Brevet Cable »

Could they not start up Kinloss again or Leuchars ?

They'd have to kick the Army out first.....
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patrouille2001
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by patrouille2001 »

Does anyone know the condition of Kinloss and Leuchars runways, I know when they closed Cottesmore, they removed the Radar and landing lights and wondered if they had done the same ? :question:

FarnboroJohn
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Re: S.D.S.R 2015

Post by FarnboroJohn »

The thing that bothers me is that 9 ac is not a credible force. Suppose, for a minute, that there is a large ship sinking way out in the Atlantic and in addition to sending the duty frigate scorching off to enable any evacuation idc, one wishes to keep an MPA overhead. Allowing for transit time, servicing, crew rest etc, that would most likely be three aircraft for one task.

Translate that to a war footing. Nine ac: three patrol stations maximum - with no allowance for crew continuation training, OCU, development and integration trials of new systems, deep servicing, physical incorporation of updates, additional tasks....

Our original Nimrod MR2 force was thirty-odd ac: quantity has a quality all of its own. Nine ac for an MPA force for the RAF is a waste of money. Double the number would cause less than twice the cost and give more than twice the capability.

This is just one example. This whole SDSR (nobody puts full stops in acronyms) is a typical Chamberlain style lame political mish-mash. The finance gives it away: "it is entirely too cheap" as the AHB said of the 1930s Expansion Scheme C. They also suggested that the cheapness was so obvious that it probably failed of its deterrent effect - strike a chord?

Brevet is close with his "Smoke, mirrors and jam", but the jam is extremely short on calories and leaves not a bitter but a sour taste of decay in the mouth.

John