Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Discuss all things 'aviation' that do not fit into a more appropriate forum
User avatar
Brevet Cable
Posts: 13190
Joined: Tue 05 Mar 2013, 12:13 pm

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by Brevet Cable »

harkins wrote:From the BBC coverage

Earlier, Reuters reported it had seen video from a rebel group that appeared to show one of the pilots immobile and badly wounded on the ground.


Yes , the video's out there. Redacted version has been shown on RT & AJ.
AJ also reporting that the rebel group are saying "both of the pilots bodies have been recovered" ; RT are still reporting one dead & one captured.

RT also now reporting it was downed by an AAM not a SAM.

Putin openly calling Turkey "terrorist accomplices" & stating that Turkey are buying oil from IS.
Tôi chỉ đặt cái này ở đây để giữ cho người điều hành bận rộn
아직도 숨어있다

User avatar
T_J
Posts: 2856
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 6:57 pm
Location: Lincs

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by T_J »

boff180 wrote:Confirmed Russian.

Russians (RT) saying it was a SAM and the aircraft was inside Syria.


Putin has confirmed in video interview that it was an air-to-air shoot down from a Turkish F-16.

Our aircraft was downed over the territory of Syria, using air-to-air missile from a Turkish F-16. It fell on the Syrian territory 4km from Turkey.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2 ... ve-updates

User avatar
capercaillie
Posts: 8051
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 3:04 pm
Location: Leominster

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by capercaillie »

Aviationcafe wrote:Looks a bit like a Su-27 to me in this photo from the BBC website:

Image


That's an Su27/30 releasing flares in an airshow routine and nothing to do with the Su24 that was shot down. Typical lazy journalism. :wall:
"The surrogate voice of st24"

User avatar
harkins
Posts: 1091
Joined: Tue 11 Jun 2013, 9:17 pm
Location: Stockport

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by harkins »

BBC now say on their live reporting that "AFP have released an image of the Russian jet as it tumbles from the sky".

Image

Amazingly it has suddenly turned into a Flanker on the way down.

User avatar
harkins
Posts: 1091
Joined: Tue 11 Jun 2013, 9:17 pm
Location: Stockport

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by harkins »

Hatrick!!!

User avatar
capercaillie
Posts: 8051
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 3:04 pm
Location: Leominster

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by capercaillie »

Its quickly been removed. :facepalm:
"The surrogate voice of st24"

User avatar
craig.mason
Posts: 1141
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 9:47 am
Location: dronfield derbyshire

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by craig.mason »

old Mr Putin is very "annoyed" with turkey
Russian President Vladimir Putin has bitterly condemned the downing of a Russian jet on the Turkey-Syria border.
He described it as a "stab in the back" committed by "accomplices of terrorists".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34913173
Canon 550D
EF-S 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 IS II Lens
EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II
EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 III USM

User avatar
Pat Murphy
Posts: 2292
Joined: Tue 02 Sep 2008, 11:37 pm
Location: St Asaph, North Wales
Contact:

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by Pat Murphy »

Great move from the Turks. Poke the bear with a stick and expect it not to bite :roll: The Russians may well have "pushed things" with an overfly but at 18000ft plus does any pilot really know if he's over a line on a map??. Were the Russians monitoring the frequency the Turks were supposed to be broadcasting on? So many questions and unfortunately, it would appear that both the Russian crew are no longer able to comment :sad: We are entering a very dangerous phase of this conflict and I don't like the way any of this is heading.

It has to be said that the Russians complicated matters with their forces involved and something along these lines was almost bound to happen, but surely the Turks should have only fired as a last resort. What about a close up pass to warn them off? I would hope that the RAF would have different Rules of Engagement when intercepting QRA targets from the Russians.

FlyingMachinesTV
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 1:23 pm

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by FlyingMachinesTV »

Pat Murphy wrote:Great move from the Turks. Poke the bear with a stick and expect it not to bite :roll: The Russians may well have "pushed things" with an overfly but at 18000ft plus does any pilot really know if he's over a line on a map??. Were the Russians monitoring the frequency the Turks were supposed to be broadcasting on? So many questions and unfortunately, it would appear that both the Russian crew are no longer able to comment :sad: We are entering a very dangerous phase of this conflict and I don't like the way any of this is heading.

It has to be said that the Russians complicated matters with their forces involved and something along these lines was almost bound to happen, but surely the Turks should have only fired as a last resort. What about a close up pass to warn them off? I would hope that the RAF would have different Rules of Engagement when intercepting QRA targets from the Russians.


Is NATO still obliged to help a member state even when they do something as provocative as this? Hopefully it won't escalate but either way it's not going to be good for Turkey.

User avatar
CJS
Posts: 7611
Joined: Thu 15 Jul 2010, 3:30 pm
Location: Hogwarts

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by CJS »

Pat Murphy wrote:Great move from the Turks. Poke the bear with a stick and expect it not to bite :roll: The Russians may well have "pushed things" with an overfly but at 18000ft plus does any pilot really know if he's over a line on a map??. Were the Russians monitoring the frequency the Turks were supposed to be broadcasting on? So many questions and unfortunately, it would appear that both the Russian crew are no longer able to comment :sad: We are entering a very dangerous phase of this conflict and I don't like the way any of this is heading.

It has to be said that the Russians complicated matters with their forces involved and something along these lines was almost bound to happen, but surely the Turks should have only fired as a last resort. What about a close up pass to warn them off? I would hope that the RAF would have different Rules of Engagement when intercepting QRA targets from the Russians.


I'm not sure they rely too much on maps any more, or that that would be an excuse.

I don't like this. I don't like it one little bit. :down:
With just the slightest bit of finesse, I might have made a little less mess.

Tangoringo.
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun 03 May 2015, 4:23 pm

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by Tangoringo. »

For anyone who may be confused by what's going on in Syria and the wider Middle East...... :biggrin:

President Assad (who is bad) is a nasty guy who got so nasty his people rebelled and the Rebels (who are good) started winning (Hurrah!). But then some of the rebels turned a bit nasty and are now called Islamic State ( who are definitely bad!) and some continued to support democracy (who are still good.)
So the Americans (who are good) started bombing Islamic State (who are bad) and giving arms to the Syrian Rebels (who are good) so they could fight Assad (who is still bad) which was good.

By the way, there is a breakaway state in the north run by the Kurds who want to fight IS ( which is a good thing ) but the Turkish authorities think they are bad, so we have to say they are bad whilst secretly thinking they're good and giving them guns to fight IS (which is good) but that is another matter.

Getting back to Syria.

So President Putin ( who is bad, cos he invaded Crimea and the Ukraine and killed lots of folks including that nice Russian man in London with polonium poisoned sushi ) has decided to back Assad (who is still bad) by attacking IS (who are also bad) which is sort of a good thing?
But Putin ( still bad ) thinks the Syrian Rebels (who are good) are also bad, and so he bombs them too, much to the annoyance of the Americans (who are good) who are busy backing and arming the rebels (who are also good).
Now Iran (who used to be bad, but now they have agreed not to build any nuclear weapons and bomb Israel are now good) are going to provide ground troops to support Assad (still bad) as are the Russians (bad) who now have ground troops and aircraft in Syria.

So a Coalition of Assad (still bad) Putin (extra bad) and the Iranians (good, but in a bad sort of way) are going to attack IS (who are bad) which is a good thing, but also the Syrian Rebels (who are good) which is bad.

Now the British (obviously good, except some freak called Corbyn who, incidentally wears a corduroy jacket, which is dead give away as that's never good) and the Americans (also good) cannot attack Assad (still bad) for fear of upsetting Putin (bad) and Iran (good / bad) and now they have to accept that Assad might not be that bad after all compared to IS (who are super bad).

So Assad (bad) is now probably good, being better than IS (but let’s face it, drinking your own wee is better than IS so no real choice there) and since Putin and Iran are also fighting IS that may now make them Good. America (still Good) will find it hard to arm a group of rebels being attacked by the Russians for fear of upsetting Mr Putin (now good) and that nice mad Ayatollah in Iran (also Good) and so they may be forced to say that the Rebels are now Bad, or at the very least abandon them to their fate. This will lead most of them to flee to Turkey and on to Europe or join IS (still the only constantly bad group).
To Sunni Muslims, an attack by Shia Muslims (Assad and Iran) backed by Russians will be seen as something of a Holy War, and the ranks of IS will now be seen by the Sunnis as the only Jihadis fighting in the Holy War and hence many Muslims will now see IS as Good (Doh!)

Sunni Muslims will also see the lack of action by Britain and America in support of their Sunni rebel brothers as something of a betrayal (mmmm... might have a point) and hence we will be seen as Bad.

So now we have America (now bad) and Britain (also bad) providing limited support to Sunni Rebels (bad) many of whom are looking to IS (Good / bad) for support against Assad (now good) who, along with Iran (also Good) and Putin (also, now, unbelievably, Good) are attempting to retake the country Assad used to run before all this started?

I hope this makes things a little clearer.

Gregg
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon 27 Jun 2011, 10:55 am

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by Gregg »

Except the Russians aren't bombing isil/Isis. They're hitting the FSA, among others, in the north of the country. These fine fellows are ethnic Turks. The Turks, our friends, are buying oil off Isis. Isis are laughing their heads off at the total mess we've made of this.

User avatar
Pat Murphy
Posts: 2292
Joined: Tue 02 Sep 2008, 11:37 pm
Location: St Asaph, North Wales
Contact:

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by Pat Murphy »

Tangoringo. wrote:For anyone who may be confused by what's going on in Syria and the wider Middle East...... :biggrin:

President Assad (who is bad) is a nasty guy who got so nasty his people rebelled and the Rebels (who are good) started winning (Hurrah!). But then some of the rebels turned a bit nasty and are now called Islamic State ( who are definitely bad!) and some continued to support democracy (who are still good.)
So the Americans (who are good) started bombing Islamic State (who are bad) and giving arms to the Syrian Rebels (who are good) so they could fight Assad (who is still bad) which was good.

By the way, there is a breakaway state in the north run by the Kurds who want to fight IS ( which is a good thing ) but the Turkish authorities think they are bad, so we have to say they are bad whilst secretly thinking they're good and giving them guns to fight IS (which is good) but that is another matter.

Getting back to Syria.

So President Putin ( who is bad, cos he invaded Crimea and the Ukraine and killed lots of folks including that nice Russian man in London with polonium poisoned sushi ) has decided to back Assad (who is still bad) by attacking IS (who are also bad) which is sort of a good thing?
But Putin ( still bad ) thinks the Syrian Rebels (who are good) are also bad, and so he bombs them too, much to the annoyance of the Americans (who are good) who are busy backing and arming the rebels (who are also good).
Now Iran (who used to be bad, but now they have agreed not to build any nuclear weapons and bomb Israel are now good) are going to provide ground troops to support Assad (still bad) as are the Russians (bad) who now have ground troops and aircraft in Syria.

So a Coalition of Assad (still bad) Putin (extra bad) and the Iranians (good, but in a bad sort of way) are going to attack IS (who are bad) which is a good thing, but also the Syrian Rebels (who are good) which is bad.

Now the British (obviously good, except some freak called Corbyn who, incidentally wears a corduroy jacket, which is dead give away as that's never good) and the Americans (also good) cannot attack Assad (still bad) for fear of upsetting Putin (bad) and Iran (good / bad) and now they have to accept that Assad might not be that bad after all compared to IS (who are super bad).

So Assad (bad) is now probably good, being better than IS (but let’s face it, drinking your own wee is better than IS so no real choice there) and since Putin and Iran are also fighting IS that may now make them Good. America (still Good) will find it hard to arm a group of rebels being attacked by the Russians for fear of upsetting Mr Putin (now good) and that nice mad Ayatollah in Iran (also Good) and so they may be forced to say that the Rebels are now Bad, or at the very least abandon them to their fate. This will lead most of them to flee to Turkey and on to Europe or join IS (still the only constantly bad group).
To Sunni Muslims, an attack by Shia Muslims (Assad and Iran) backed by Russians will be seen as something of a Holy War, and the ranks of IS will now be seen by the Sunnis as the only Jihadis fighting in the Holy War and hence many Muslims will now see IS as Good (Doh!)

Sunni Muslims will also see the lack of action by Britain and America in support of their Sunni rebel brothers as something of a betrayal (mmmm... might have a point) and hence we will be seen as Bad.

So now we have America (now bad) and Britain (also bad) providing limited support to Sunni Rebels (bad) many of whom are looking to IS (Good / bad) for support against Assad (now good) who, along with Iran (also Good) and Putin (also, now, unbelievably, Good) are attempting to retake the country Assad used to run before all this started?

I hope this makes things a little clearer.


Thanks for that Tangoringo :hypno: . All makes perfect sense to me. If it wasn't so serious I would laugh. :sad:

canard67
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 7:05 pm

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by canard67 »

Assad always came across as reasonable when interviewed perhaps he needed to have a bit more of the Sadam about him to keep the lid on Syria. We did not help by pushing all that "arab spring" rubbish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiC4w7Erz8I

User avatar
boff180
UKAR Staff
Posts: 9039
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 2:28 pm
Location: Solihull
Contact:

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by boff180 »

Reports that US believe the incursion lasted for seconds not minutes....

User avatar
Brevet Cable
Posts: 13190
Joined: Tue 05 Mar 2013, 12:13 pm

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by Brevet Cable »

If anyone's interested.....
18:00hrs - NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg will give a statement to the press following the meeting of the North Atlantic Council requested by Turkey.

Live straming here :
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/events_67375.htm
Tôi chỉ đặt cái này ở đây để giữ cho người điều hành bận rộn
아직도 숨어있다

User avatar
harkins
Posts: 1091
Joined: Tue 11 Jun 2013, 9:17 pm
Location: Stockport

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by harkins »

The yanks are in a tricky position because on the one hand they must know the Turks have been complete morons today and yet they have to side with them and also oppose the Russians.

Personally I'd turf the Turks out of NATO. It's great having a pact to back up your mates when they get in a fight, but if one of those mates is a nutter who's prone to kicking off over the slightest thing then it's not good. And worse still when that nutter mate is secretly fraternising with your worst enemy.

I'm also aggravated by the West continually referring to 'moderate rebels' when they aren't. Ok, they might not be nearly as bad as IS and they might share a hatred of Assad, but they're still lunatics. They've committed a war crime today shooting those pilots while parachuting. And I bet the average person in Damascus today can't wait for that lot, with the blessing of the US, to be running the country! But I guess the Yanks are expecting it not to end up anything like Libya after they helped back those charming moderate rebel fighters. Anyone planning a holiday to post Western intervention Libya?

User avatar
Brevet Cable
Posts: 13190
Joined: Tue 05 Mar 2013, 12:13 pm

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by Brevet Cable »

Posted originally on Wikileaks today .... Turkey's letter to the UN :

Image
Tôi chỉ đặt cái này ở đây để giữ cho người điều hành bận rộn
아직도 숨어있다

farnboroughrob
Posts: 1882
Joined: Fri 05 Jun 2009, 8:31 am

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by farnboroughrob »

It is a total over reaction, these aircraft are no threat to Turkey. I think Turkey have been looking to shhot something down since the Syrians shot down the Turkish F-4 a couple of years ago. What needs to happen is for the Russians to at least let the NATO command and control system know where and who they are. Are we to assume that the Syrians themselves no longer have any fast jets active that are a threat to NATO?

User avatar
CJS
Posts: 7611
Joined: Thu 15 Jul 2010, 3:30 pm
Location: Hogwarts

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by CJS »

I too think the Turks have over reacted. Remember though that these Russian aircraft are fully armed and - rightly or wrongly - have ignored multiple warnings and breached a country's airspace.
One of them changed course, one does have to ask why, following repeated warnings and knowing the possible consequences, the other one didn't follow suit.
With just the slightest bit of finesse, I might have made a little less mess.

User avatar
T_J
Posts: 2856
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 6:57 pm
Location: Lincs

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by T_J »

farnboroughrob wrote:I think Turkey have been looking to shoot something down since the Syrians shot down the Turkish F-4 a couple of years ago.


Since the Turkish RF-4 shoot down Turkish F-16s have shot down the following Syrian aircraft.

23rd March 2014 - MiG-23

http://theaviationist.com/2015/05/08/tu ... -markings/

16th September 2013 - Mi-17

http://theaviationist.com/2015/05/07/mi ... k-on-f-16/

Timc
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat 13 Sep 2008, 6:32 pm
Location: Somewhere very close to Cosford!
Contact:

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by Timc »

Although I don't condone the actions of Turkey I do find it somewhat hypocritical that they make regular airspace incursions into Greece which after all is a fellow NATO partner.

Interesting times.

User avatar
toom317
UKAR Supporter
Posts: 1852
Joined: Tue 02 Sep 2008, 11:02 am

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by toom317 »

Tangoringo. wrote:For anyone who may be confused by what's going on in Syria and the wider Middle East...... :biggrin:

President Assad (who is bad) is a nasty guy who got so nasty his people rebelled and the Rebels (who are good) started winning (Hurrah!). But then some of the rebels turned a bit nasty and are now called Islamic State ( who are definitely bad!) and some continued to support democracy (who are still good.)
So the Americans (who are good) started bombing Islamic State (who are bad) and giving arms to the Syrian Rebels (who are good) so they could fight Assad (who is still bad) which was good.

By the way, there is a breakaway state in the north run by the Kurds who want to fight IS ( which is a good thing ) but the Turkish authorities think they are bad, so we have to say they are bad whilst secretly thinking they're good and giving them guns to fight IS (which is good) but that is another matter.

Getting back to Syria.

So President Putin ( who is bad, cos he invaded Crimea and the Ukraine and killed lots of folks including that nice Russian man in London with polonium poisoned sushi ) has decided to back Assad (who is still bad) by attacking IS (who are also bad) which is sort of a good thing?
But Putin ( still bad ) thinks the Syrian Rebels (who are good) are also bad, and so he bombs them too, much to the annoyance of the Americans (who are good) who are busy backing and arming the rebels (who are also good).
Now Iran (who used to be bad, but now they have agreed not to build any nuclear weapons and bomb Israel are now good) are going to provide ground troops to support Assad (still bad) as are the Russians (bad) who now have ground troops and aircraft in Syria.

So a Coalition of Assad (still bad) Putin (extra bad) and the Iranians (good, but in a bad sort of way) are going to attack IS (who are bad) which is a good thing, but also the Syrian Rebels (who are good) which is bad.

Now the British (obviously good, except some freak called Corbyn who, incidentally wears a corduroy jacket, which is dead give away as that's never good) and the Americans (also good) cannot attack Assad (still bad) for fear of upsetting Putin (bad) and Iran (good / bad) and now they have to accept that Assad might not be that bad after all compared to IS (who are super bad).

So Assad (bad) is now probably good, being better than IS (but let’s face it, drinking your own wee is better than IS so no real choice there) and since Putin and Iran are also fighting IS that may now make them Good. America (still Good) will find it hard to arm a group of rebels being attacked by the Russians for fear of upsetting Mr Putin (now good) and that nice mad Ayatollah in Iran (also Good) and so they may be forced to say that the Rebels are now Bad, or at the very least abandon them to their fate. This will lead most of them to flee to Turkey and on to Europe or join IS (still the only constantly bad group).
To Sunni Muslims, an attack by Shia Muslims (Assad and Iran) backed by Russians will be seen as something of a Holy War, and the ranks of IS will now be seen by the Sunnis as the only Jihadis fighting in the Holy War and hence many Muslims will now see IS as Good (Doh!)

Sunni Muslims will also see the lack of action by Britain and America in support of their Sunni rebel brothers as something of a betrayal (mmmm... might have a point) and hence we will be seen as Bad.

So now we have America (now bad) and Britain (also bad) providing limited support to Sunni Rebels (bad) many of whom are looking to IS (Good / bad) for support against Assad (now good) who, along with Iran (also Good) and Putin (also, now, unbelievably, Good) are attempting to retake the country Assad used to run before all this started?

I hope this makes things a little clearer.


It's so much better in the original Pprune

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/570411- ... -then.html
"Nice pics mate" comments only! No criticism please.

Equipment: Camera, Lens, Goretex Y fronts.

User avatar
Mooshie1956
Posts: 1493
Joined: Wed 01 Jun 2011, 11:46 am
Location: Manchester

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by Mooshie1956 »

harkins wrote: They've committed a war crime today shooting those pilots while parachuting.


Please tell what war crime they have committed. If that's the case then we should start looking at nearly every German over a certain age because that's what they did to our boys during WW2. You only need read about the case of the bomber crew that jumped to supposed safety during WW2 and were beaten to death by the populace of the town.
Also with what your saying then it's alright to fire rockets drop bomb from a height knowing full well that they can't shoot back, but as soon as you come in range of there guns then that's a war crime, you can't have it one way only.At the end of the day he's a pilot in the military and should know the risk involved if he's going to drop bombs on helpless people.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mooshie1956/
Panny G80 12-60 Lens
Panny 100-400 Lens
Olympus 60 Macro Lens

Tangoringo.
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun 03 May 2015, 4:23 pm

Re: Jet shot down in Turkish air space

Post by Tangoringo. »

toom317 wrote:
Tangoringo. wrote:For anyone who may be confused by what's going on in Syria and the wider Middle East...... :biggrin:

President Assad (who is bad) is a nasty guy who got so nasty his people rebelled and the Rebels (who are good) started winning (Hurrah!). But then some of the rebels turned a bit nasty and are now called Islamic State ( who are definitely bad!) and some continued to support democracy (who are still good.)
So the Americans (who are good) started bombing Islamic State (who are bad) and giving arms to the Syrian Rebels (who are good) so they could fight Assad (who is still bad) which was good.

By the way, there is a breakaway state in the north run by the Kurds who want to fight IS ( which is a good thing ) but the Turkish authorities think they are bad, so we have to say they are bad whilst secretly thinking they're good and giving them guns to fight IS (which is good) but that is another matter.

Getting back to Syria.

So President Putin ( who is bad, cos he invaded Crimea and the Ukraine and killed lots of folks including that nice Russian man in London with polonium poisoned sushi ) has decided to back Assad (who is still bad) by attacking IS (who are also bad) which is sort of a good thing?
But Putin ( still bad ) thinks the Syrian Rebels (who are good) are also bad, and so he bombs them too, much to the annoyance of the Americans (who are good) who are busy backing and arming the rebels (who are also good).
Now Iran (who used to be bad, but now they have agreed not to build any nuclear weapons and bomb Israel are now good) are going to provide ground troops to support Assad (still bad) as are the Russians (bad) who now have ground troops and aircraft in Syria.

So a Coalition of Assad (still bad) Putin (extra bad) and the Iranians (good, but in a bad sort of way) are going to attack IS (who are bad) which is a good thing, but also the Syrian Rebels (who are good) which is bad.

Now the British (obviously good, except some freak called Corbyn who, incidentally wears a corduroy jacket, which is dead give away as that's never good) and the Americans (also good) cannot attack Assad (still bad) for fear of upsetting Putin (bad) and Iran (good / bad) and now they have to accept that Assad might not be that bad after all compared to IS (who are super bad).

So Assad (bad) is now probably good, being better than IS (but let’s face it, drinking your own wee is better than IS so no real choice there) and since Putin and Iran are also fighting IS that may now make them Good. America (still Good) will find it hard to arm a group of rebels being attacked by the Russians for fear of upsetting Mr Putin (now good) and that nice mad Ayatollah in Iran (also Good) and so they may be forced to say that the Rebels are now Bad, or at the very least abandon them to their fate. This will lead most of them to flee to Turkey and on to Europe or join IS (still the only constantly bad group).
To Sunni Muslims, an attack by Shia Muslims (Assad and Iran) backed by Russians will be seen as something of a Holy War, and the ranks of IS will now be seen by the Sunnis as the only Jihadis fighting in the Holy War and hence many Muslims will now see IS as Good (Doh!)

Sunni Muslims will also see the lack of action by Britain and America in support of their Sunni rebel brothers as something of a betrayal (mmmm... might have a point) and hence we will be seen as Bad.

So now we have America (now bad) and Britain (also bad) providing limited support to Sunni Rebels (bad) many of whom are looking to IS (Good / bad) for support against Assad (now good) who, along with Iran (also Good) and Putin (also, now, unbelievably, Good) are attempting to retake the country Assad used to run before all this started?

I hope this makes things a little clearer.


It's so much better in the original Pprune

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/570411- ... -then.html



Your point being? :confused: