CAA Charges

[yakdave]

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP ... 0NOV16.pdf

Worth a read, Go to Chapter 6, And locate the General Aviation Scheme and you will see the proposed charges to be implemented from the 1st April 2017, All Displays will need your support it may kill some of the smaller display off and gate prices will escalate.........Write to your MPS etc and any good contacts with the media do the same

[boff180]

Headlines are pretty damning....

50% increase in post event charges for flying displays for 2017

The document reports administering flying displays made a £253,000 loss for the 2016 season.
They want to reduce this to a £177,000 loss for the 2017 season.

Yet the CAA made a profit of £1,221,000 for 2016 and will increase this to £1,459,000 for 2017.

This will kill many shows.

[stickshaker]

This is not another increase, but the second phase of the original increase, which was changed from the original planned single hike, to become a phased increase over 3 years. It was phased so as to reduce the impact of a single large rise.

So actually, the benefit was that this year's charges were not as great as originally planned. Para i, on pages 22 and 23 describes it.

[boff180]

A phased increase is still an increase. Whether planned or not.

The effect of the smaller 2016 fee had a damaging effect on a number of events, a significant enough effect that would justify a complete review of that policy.

[boff180]

This document (yet another consultation), has more detail....

http://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/CAA/ ... losure.pdf


New additions this year - permission required/charge for model aircraft displays (perhaps in response to the Shuttleworth model aircraft crash?) plus an an ex-military aircraft type rating.

[john001]

Headlines are pretty damning....

The document reports administering flying displays made a £253,000 loss for the 2016 season.
They want to reduce this to a £177,000 loss for the 2017 season.

Yet the CAA made a profit of £1,221,000 for 2016 and will increase this to £1,459,000 for 2017.

This will kill many shows.

No it does not - the cost you quote are not just for administering air displays but for the GA scheme overall.

And here we go again going over the same arguments as last time - the users pays - airlines and other operations are no longer prepared to subsidise the GA sector so the GA sector has to pay for itself. Airshows needs to look at what they provide, how they market, what will get people though the door so to speak and step up to it. Some have already, some do not have the expertise and will die just like any other business. Some will need to look at if it realistic to have tens of thousands of people at shows who pay nothing. Then there is the issue of shows like RIAT and Scampton not charging for under 16s as the charity which runs them wants to encourage the air minded youth - that's all very well for those shows but creates an expectation that can't be good for other small shows that have to charge under 16s. The airshow industry needs to think about radically changing how it operates as a whole, both mil and civil, increased charges are not going away. Maybe a BADA type organisation pays the CAA bill and the airshow industry (including RIAT and Scampton) cross subsidise some small events that are shown to be promoting the ideals of the charity. Maybe the BADA type organisation handles UK wide sponsorship for example BAe gets coverage at every affiliated event not just RIAT and local shows chase local sponsors - there is no easy answer and of course this has flaws in it but the industry does need to think differently.

PS don't bother to pick holes in the ideas above I know there are a lot but the message is the industry with the CAA needs to think differently on how it funds itself in a more cohesive way for a stable future.

[Brevet Cable]

I can see the point of some of the introductions , such as the one for 'model aircraft' ( heck , a +20Kg lump isn't exactly the same thing as the remote-controlled stuff many of us will have flown ! )
The charge for the Ex-Military Aircraft Type Rating Exemption isn't exactly going to break the bank , is it ( £134 initial ; £54 renewal )

[boff180]

[

No it does not - the cost you quote are not just for administering air displays but for the GA scheme overall.

Yes it does. The GA Scheme costs are split by section, I quoted the specific Flying Display only costs together with the overall results for the regulatory results for the CAA.

Page 33 4th row from bottom.... figures in thousands

Flying Displays
2016/17 Income = 217
2016/17 Costs = 470
2016/17 Profit = (253)
2017/18 Income = 296
2017/18 Costs = 473
2017/18 Profit = (177)

In comparison, the Overall GA Scheme Figures that you claim I have posted are:-
2016/17 Income = 679
2016/17 Costs = 885
2016/17 Profit = (206)
2017/18 Income = 834
2017/18 Costs = 986
2017/18 Profit = (152)

[john001]

Ok Boff my error

[john001]

One other thing to point out yet again is that the CAA is required by Government to make a profit and return a percentage of that profit to the Government.

[TomG]

One other thing to point out yet again is that the CAA is required by Government to make a profit and return a percentage of that profit to the Government.

I think the phrase I heard used was along the lines of "the CAA are mandated by government to recover costs" something which, by their own admission they have previously been poor at.

[Brevet Cable]

And going by the predictions posted above , they'll still not achieve the aim of recovering costs.

[Thoughtful_Flyer]

I can see the point of some of the introductions , such as the one for 'model aircraft' ( heck , a +20Kg lump isn't exactly the same thing as the remote-controlled stuff many of us will have flown ! )
The charge for the Ex-Military Aircraft Type Rating Exemption isn't exactly going to break the bank , is it ( £134 initial ; £54 renewal )

Over 20kg models are already heavily regulated by the Large Model Association under delegated powers from the CAA. They require a formal exemption from having a certificate of airworthiness (which is in effect a C of A by another name). To gain an exemption requires detailed inspection, by one of a small list of approved inspectors, during the building process followed by an extensive program of witnessed test flights. It can then only be flown by the pilots listed on the exemption. Further inspection is required after any modifications or significant repairs.

Tighter requirements still apply above 75 kg and the maximum possible model weight in the UK is 150kg.

[Brevet Cable]

Model Aircraft Public Display Permission
On making an application for the grant of a Permission to organise a flying display of unmanned, model aircraft having a mass greater than 20 kg without its fuel (Zero Fuel Weight (ZFW)) as required under Article 86 of the Order, the applicant shall pay to the CAA a charge as specified in Table A.
Table A :
Ref Application Charge
a) For the first public display date on the application £114
b) For all subsequent consecutive dates, per day £57

Exemption to fly a Model Aircraft >20kg ZFW
On making an application for the grant or renewal of an exemption under Article 266 of the Order to fly an unmanned model aircraft having a mass greater than 20 kg ZFW, the applicant shall pay to the CAA a charge of £57.

How does this differ from what already exists ?

[Thoughtful_Flyer]

Model Aircraft Public Display Permission
On making an application for the grant of a Permission to organise a flying display of unmanned, model aircraft having a mass greater than 20 kg without its fuel (Zero Fuel Weight (ZFW)) as required under Article 86 of the Order, the applicant shall pay to the CAA a charge as specified in Table A.
Table A :
Ref Application Charge
a) For the first public display date on the application £114
b) For all subsequent consecutive dates, per day £57

Exemption to fly a Model Aircraft >20kg ZFW
On making an application for the grant or renewal of an exemption under Article 266 of the Order to fly an unmanned model aircraft having a mass greater than 20 kg ZFW, the applicant shall pay to the CAA a charge of £57.

How does this differ from what already exists ?

As far as I am aware there is currently no fee for obtaining permission to organise a model display. There was certainly no charge last time I obtained a CAA height exemption for a model flying event.

Equally there was no fee for the over 20 kg exemption in the past (although that may possibly have changed in recent years). The LMA charged non-members for their inspector's expenses. However as it costs so little to join the LMA I can't imagine that situation cropped up often!

[parsley]

One other thing to point out yet again is that the CAA is required by Government to make a profit and return a percentage of that profit to the Government.

Also that despite being the UK statutory body for civil aviation it receives no direct government funding and as said above is bound by government to make a profit from it's charges and give a percentage of them to the Exchequer