Where has XH558 thread gone?

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

XR219 wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:To take on an historic airframe, without public consultation, using funds donated in good faith for XH558's upkeep.....


Dan,

Towards the end if the previous thread I responded to your question on this topic in some detail and explained why these statements were untrue.

If you know that funds donated for the specific purpose of XH558's upkeep were used for WK163, then please report this to the Charity Commission and they will doubtless investigate. Otherwise, grateful if you would withdraw these words as they have been comprehensively addressed. In the unlikely event that you didn't read them (you responded to something else two posts later), then I'm sure the mods could dig my post out for you.

Everything else that you said is of course your opinion and you are entitled to express it.

Cheers
Steve
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IF my words are untrue, then I withdraw the remarks. However, could you please point out where the public were told that their donations would be used to buy a Canberra, before they in fact bought a Canberra?

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tankbuster81
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by tankbuster81 »

I for one am pleased the thread has now gone, it was very tired. A bit like the airframe, had it's day in the skies, and now simply a museum piece, that resides on an airport, far away from the general population.Let her rest in peace now.
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IgnatiusJReilly
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by IgnatiusJReilly »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:IF my words are untrue, then I withdraw the remarks. However, could you please point out where the public were told that their donations would be used to buy a Canberra, before they in fact bought a Canberra?


To be fair, in the Survival Q&A, Dr Bob says, "...After some negotiation, we concluded that to purchase the whole fleet was beyond our capabilities, but agreed to purchase Canberra WK163"
I think I read elsewhere that the Canberra was actually bought for very little, but to my mind whether it was £1 or £1000, that would suggest that trust money was indeed paid for it and as far as I recall, this was done before any announcement was made to the supporters.

So, prior to any Canberra announcement, surely, any donation to the trust could only have been given with the intention of supporting XH558 exclusively?...
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Xm657
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Xm657 »

I'm not sure if VttST used funds donated to 558 to buy the Canberra, I seem to recall it was a separate appeal, hopefully they did keep the money separate.

The Canberra purchase was a reasonable idea if it had worked. The point was to carry on with a new project at Doncaster, keeping all the engineers together with the skills they had built up, and have another cold war bomber in the air. It would have been great if it had worked and made Doncaster a viable and reasonable place to be especially if they could have added further fliers to their fleet in due course.

The fact it hasn't worked: no where near enough money was raised and the engineers have had to be let go, should have been the signal that the idea wasn't going to work. I really cant see how it can ever work in future, it will be only be more difficult now that all the engineers have gone their separate ways.

It was a noble idea, and logical to try and not waste the talent they had, but they should really have played it safe, landed at Bruntingthorpe and restored a Canberra there, where 558 would have been in good hands. They would also have had the help of other Canberra people at Bruntingthorpe as well as the groups that look after all the other airframes.

XR219
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by XR219 »

Chaps,

I consider that these concerns were addressed in my post on the previous thread. I don't have the text, but should a Mod wish to repost here then feel free.
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Vampire 1973
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Vampire 1973 »

I for one am glad that the previous 558 thread has been shut down and hope that this one dies soon also.

I'm finding it very hard to not only take this thread but UK airshows review in general seriously as a whole any more.

XH558 has been discussed to death and I feel it is time to move on and concentrate on rebuilding our airshows

DonaldGrump
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by DonaldGrump »

Vampire 1973 wrote:I for one am glad that the previous 558 thread has been shut down and hope that this one dies soon also.

I'm finding it very hard to not only take this thread but UK airshows review in general seriously as a whole any more.

XH558 has been discussed to death and I feel it is time to move on and concentrate on rebuilding our airshows


Dont read the thread then? Surely that makes sense or are you saying the thread should be closed and people not allowed to discuss this subject if they wish to because you dont like it? Really?

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CJS
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by CJS »

But clearly it wasn't the fact that 558 was being discussed that was the issue - people can discuss whatever aircraft they want on here - it was the infantile nature of some (at times much) of the discussion, culminating in what sounds like people (or person at the very least) having a go at UKAR staff, which is pretty dumb really.

I don't imagine for a second that if the thread had remained about the aircraft, and hadn't descended so frequently into playground drivel, it would have been taken down.

It became almost impossible to sift through the bickering and BS to find those who actually still wanted to discuss the Vulcan and it's future, which was a shame because it's clearly still a very emotive aeroplane that perhaps deserves continued (grown up) discussion.

But I don't blame Dan one bit for getting rid of it, at least for now.
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vulcan558
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by vulcan558 »

The problem with the build a plane idea, also lets buy a Canberra and restore it too flight.
Plus take on the swift.
They where all doomed as was 558. Why because the trust did not have a proper home for any of them.

The priority before last flight was to have a proper home for 558 nothing else, this they did not have.
If this temporary hangar gets built it will be temporary, they will not own it, so can be in the same situation in a year or 2s time.

Doncaster was the wrong place like most people knew it was.
Was the fact of at the time cheap rent in hangar 3, while she was a flyer. somehow they thought it would be forever.
Where did the money for the build a plane come from or the Canberra I do not know,
I would say mr Edmondson paid for the build a plane with him being registered has builder or claiming ownership of it.
Who owns the Canberra is another question.

Saleemrama
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Saleemrama »

Is the 558 info thread coming back? This just seems to be a Thread about an ex-thread, which seems a bit weird to me?

Somebody started a new topic but it seems to have gone dead, you can find it here: http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78545

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Saleemrama
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Saleemrama »

I promised my father that I would take him to see the Vulcan in Doncaster, unfortunately he passed away just before new year. He used to work on them at Scampton, I think. He never talked much about them, but the one story I heard several times was about a big hole filled with water and a tin bath also filled with water, near where they used to put the aircraft - can anyone give anymore information on what it might mean please? I am trying to compile a bit of a history about the aircraft. I am not writing a book, or anything - it is just for me.

I have lots of questions, if people would tolerate them?
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911T
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by 911T »

vulcan558 wrote:Who owns the Canberra is another question.



VTTS own it https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalappli ... gmark=CTTS

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Brevet Cable »

vulcan558 wrote:Where did the money for the build a plane come from or the Canberra I do not know,
I would say mr Edmondson paid for the build a plane with him being registered has builder or claiming ownership of it.
Who owns the Canberra is another question.

The 'Build a plane' funding came from a mixture of sponsorship & donations, completely separate from the funding of XH558 and WK163.
Sam was the Project Manager for the 'Build a Plane' scheme until he was made redundant.
No, Edmundson has no claim on the airframe whatsoever....and the 'registered builder' title is merely an administrative one.

WK163 is owned by VTST.
They were looking at raising £100k ( if I recall correctly ) to return it to flight primarily from appeals ( separate from XH558 ) but I think they were also considering applying for a HLF Grant as well.

The information is pretty much all in the various newsletters which are on the VTTS forum ( if anyone can be bothered searching through them )

And on a different note.....no, Bruntingthorpe wouldn't have been a good place for either the 'Build a Plane' project or RtoF of the Canberra....with WK163 they'd have been far better off looking to Horizon at St Athan or one of the other Companies & locations specialising in restoring & servicing classic jets.
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Xm657
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Xm657 »

Brevet Cable wrote:And on a different note.....no, Bruntingthorpe wouldn't have been a good place for either the 'Build a Plane' project or RtoF of the Canberra....with WK163 they'd have been far better off looking to Horizon at St Athan or one of the other Companies & locations specialising in restoring & servicing classic jets.


Bruntingthorpe wouldn't have been a completely bad place to at least start the Canberra restoration though, they could have operated from somewhere else when it was airworthy. Don't forget it was GJD of Bruntingthorpe who dismantled 163 and moved it to Doncaster for them. 163 was also operated out of Bruntingthorpe as a flyer for a few years in the late 90s early 00s. Whether David Walton would have welcomed them all back I'm not sure though, but we do know he would have liked 558 to return and all the money that has been wasted since 2015 probably would have been enough to build her a hanger there by now.

Interesting what you say about other locations and companies that would have made the Canberra restoration easier. Canberra to the Sky seems more like a job creation scheme for the Trust as using resources in these places, and indeed just buying a near airworthy PR9 would have given a much quicker route to flying. I think they wanted to have a longer term project that would keep their engineers busy and justify the base at Doncaster. All madness in hindsight really.

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by f4phixeruk »

Saleemrama wrote:I promised my father that I would take him to see the Vulcan in Doncaster, unfortunately he passed away just before new year. He used to work on them at Scampton, I think. He never talked much about them, but the one story I heard several times was about a big hole filled with water and a tin bath also filled with water, near where they used to put the aircraft - can anyone give anymore information on what it might mean please? I am trying to compile a bit of a history about the aircraft. I am not writing a book, or anything - it is just for me.

I have lots of questions, if people would tolerate them?

Believe the bath / big pool of water was for when fuelling the Blue steel missile with High test peroxide. According to Tim Lamings "The Vulcan Story 1952 - 2002" p71

"Handling HTP was dangerous, because unless it was treated with almost surgical standards of care and cleanliness, it would de-compose, giving off oxygen in a violent and explosive fashion. This capacity to produce oxygen enabled the kerosene fuel to burn efficiently at any alttitude, but of course the opportuunity for accidents during ground handling meant that the fuel system was treated with as much care as the nuclear warhead. On hand alongside every Blue Steel was a supply of water, ready to saturate anyone who might come into contact with HTP, and run the risk of instantly bursting into flames"
Last edited by f4phixeruk on Mon 14 Aug 2017, 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Saleemrama
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Saleemrama »

f4phixeruk wrote:
Saleemrama wrote:I promised my father that I would take him to see the Vulcan in Doncaster, unfortunately he passed away just before new year. He used to work on them at Scampton, I think. He never talked much about them, but the one story I heard several times was about a big hole filled with water and a tin bath also filled with water, near where they used to put the aircraft - can anyone give anymore information on what it might mean please? I am trying to compile a bit of a history about the aircraft. I am not writing a book, or anything - it is just for me.

I have lots of questions, if people would tolerate them?

Believe the bath / big pool of water was for when fuelling the Blue steel missile with High test peroxide. According to Tim Lamings "The Vulcan Story" p71

"Handling HTP was dangerous, because unless it was treated with almost surgical standards of care and cleanliness, it would de-compose, giving off oxygen in a violent and explosive fashion. This capacity to produce oxygen enabled the kerosene fuel to burn efficiently at any alttitude, but of course the opportuunity for accidents during ground handling meant that the fuel system was treated with as much care as the nuclear warhead. On hand alongside every Blue Steel was a supply of water, ready to saturate anyone who might come into contact with HTP, and run the risk of instantly bursting into flames"


Thank you for that - I will try and find the book, was Blue Steel the big missile that had to be housed outside the bomb bay? Think they had one of those at Cosford - enormous thing.
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f4phixeruk
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by f4phixeruk »

Yep it was, and your right about them having one at Cosford
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by RAF4EVER »

No posts from Neverfuel, or Microlight Driver yet?? :smile: :grin: :lol:

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Georgeconna »

There hardly any point of them posting with the way the majority of you lot on here. I would not blame them if they threw in the towel , Probably more constructive things to do with their time than playing post ping pong here.
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Brevet Cable
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Brevet Cable »

RAF4EVER wrote:No posts from Neverfuel, or Microlight Driver yet?? :smile: :grin: :lol:

Granted it's a whole 4 pages long, but presumably you didn't bothered reading through this topic before posting, then ?? :whistle: :lol:
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Brevet Cable
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Brevet Cable »

So........
Anyone want to buy another XH558 fleece to go with all the other XH558 fleeces ( and t-shirts ) they've already got ?
http://www.vulcantotheskystore.co.uk/navy-fleece---10th-anniversary-of-return-to-flight-3811-p.asp
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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Brevet Cable wrote:So........
Anyone want to buy another XH558 fleece to go with all the other XH558 fleeces ( and t-shirts ) they've already got ?
http://www.vulcantotheskystore.co.uk/navy-fleece---10th-anniversary-of-return-to-flight-3811-p.asp


NINETY quid?

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Brevet Cable »

Ah, but that includes a free mini rugby ball......bargain !! :lol:
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jalfrezi
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by jalfrezi »

I especially liked this bit:

EB Umbrella, the company that are fully funding the production of this detailed fleece under licence from Vulcan to the Sky Trust, along with the free mini rugby ball, are making a donation in support of XH558 from every fleece sold.


No, they're overcharging for a fleece and then splitting the profit with VTTS.

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Brevet Cable »

As you'll notice, there's with no mention of what that donation will be.
Having a quick look, the same company does fleeces for the RAFBF which sell for £80 ( but they don't get the free ball :whistle: :wink: ) from which the RAFBF get £20
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