Where has XH558 thread gone?

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IgnatiusJReilly
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by IgnatiusJReilly »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Where did you get those figures from? Staggering that anyone of lucid mind would give them a penny, when there's not a shred of clear progress on the hangar in the public domain for years.
Still, they're probably too busy counting all that money to bother answering the questions asked in this thread the best part of a week ago.


Really simple estimate. Looking at the photos on the VTTS page, based on approx. 7 names per row, 38 rows per sheet, 42 sheets + a few
Obviously that's a very rough & ready calculation but it gives a broad brush number.

Same method for the other appeal.
What was it, 30quid a pop? zero cost asides from some sheets of sticky and a printer cartridge... :dizzy:
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Xm657
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Xm657 »

iainpeden wrote:My daughter told me she was going to pay to have my name inscribed/painted/stuck on the Vulcan as a Father's Day (maybe that should be Fathers' Day) but they had sold out of space- thank goodness she didn't waste her money.


Funny you should say that but judging from the positive comments on the Facebook advertising for the names appeal, I would guess a large proportion of them have been bought as gifts by people with very little knowledge of the Vulcan but who know someone who is a Vulcan fan. Kind of explains how they still manage to sell so many, but pretty tragic if you are the "lucky" receiver of one. I'd have been gutted if my other half had bought one with all good intentions, as its a totally worthless gift unless I want to spend £100 to see it!

It's such a shame all this money is being wasted on pointless peoples' wages, when it could go toward securing some sort of future for 558.

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MicrolightDriver
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by MicrolightDriver »

Good to see an update on the hangar situation in today's newsletter...

vulcan558
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by vulcan558 »

MicrolightDriver wrote:Good to see an update on the hangar situation in today's newsletter...

Nothing new really, just the same, still not got the money for the hangar then.
Begging bowls will be out soon.

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Southendnick
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Southendnick »

vulcan558 wrote:
MicrolightDriver wrote:Good to see an update on the hangar situation in today's newsletter...

Nothing new really, just the same, still not got the money for the hangar then.
Begging bowls will be out soon.



So what did it say?
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vulcan558
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by vulcan558 »

Southendnick wrote:
vulcan558 wrote:
MicrolightDriver wrote:Good to see an update on the hangar situation in today's newsletter...

Nothing new really, just the same, still not got the money for the hangar then.
Begging bowls will be out soon.



So what did it say?

Someone is intrested that did not want to be named to maybe stump up the majority of the funding for the hangar.
What majority is another question.

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MicrolightDriver
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by MicrolightDriver »

Southendnick wrote:
vulcan558 wrote:
MicrolightDriver wrote:Good to see an update on the hangar situation in today's newsletter...

Nothing new really, just the same, still not got the money for the hangar then.
Begging bowls will be out soon.



So what did it say?


Public statement from today's VTTS Newsletter:-

IMPORTANT TRUST NEWS UPDATE

Ahead of the Royal International Air Tattoo - a Statement to Supporters from the Vulcan to the Sky Trust - July 12th 2018

For the past six months, since full planning approval was obtained late in December, the Trust has been in discussions with an investor - who does not wish to be named at this stage - who has offered to fund the majority of the costs of constructing the Trust's New Hangar at Doncaster Sheffield Airport on land that has now been purchased by the Airport.

In parallel, building contractors have provided costs for the build, and a small amount of preparatory work at the site has been carried out. Having agreed in principle the terms of the investment, our discussions have now moved on to detailed negotiations between sets of solicitors.

When this process is completed, we will be able to make further announcements including our planned timescale. We do however hope that the hangar will open and have access to XH558 available in 2019. In addition, we are in discussions with others for the remainder of the funding required to turn the new hangar into an exciting visitor attraction for South Yorkshire.

We are very grateful for the patience of our supporters during this long and involved process, on which by its nature has meant we have been unable to offer frequent, detailed updates. We are confident that this plan will allow us to fulfil our aspirations of honouring the past and inspiring the future, while giving XH558 a fitting, relevant and secure home in the very long term.


bernarde
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by bernarde »

Probably Eddie F bailing them out again.. :clown:

Xm657
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Xm657 »

Its good to see that the dream of the hangar is still alive, but this statement is not really an update, really just a holding pattern. I think the last we heard was that they were "looking" for an investor so maybe positive that they have found one.

How any investor can carry out due diligence and still conclude they can make a return on their investment on this folly, is beyond me, I can only imagine the hangar must revert to general airport use when/if the VTTS can't afford the rent. Or perhaps they have found someone like Eddie Forrester who is willing to just build it for them and not worry too much about getting their money back. If they have, fair play to them and all the best for the future.

Marathon Milkshake
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Marathon Milkshake »

Having never read one of these "news" thingys before this is how I enterprate what they say.....

the Trust has been in discussions with an investor - who does not wish to be named at this stage - who has offered to fund the majority of the costs of constructing the Trust's New Hangar at Doncaster Sheffield Airport


They have all the money then, plus wages etc etc

on land that has now been purchased by the Airport.


Does the land not belong to the airport?

a small amount of preparatory work at the site has been carried out.


The grass has been cut

our discussions have now moved on to detailed negotiations between sets of solicitors.


Thats where the money is realy going, and why its taking so long!

We do however hope that the hangar will open and have access to XH558 available in 2019.


Utter clap trap, no chance before 2021!

we are in discussions with others for the remainder of the funding required to turn the new hangar into an exciting visitor attraction for South Yorkshire.


So they do have all the money! even after solicitors fees and the purchase of a mower?

We are very grateful for the patience of our supporters during this long and involved process,


Again clap trap, or that stuff that comes out of bulls backsides

We are confident that this plan will allow us to fulfil our aspirations of honouring the past and inspiring the future, while giving XH558 a fitting, relevant and secure home in the very long term.


Pure and utter baloney, straight out of the Goebbels propaganda play book.

I really am begining to wonder how they have fooled so many people for so long.

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ExVulcanGC
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by ExVulcanGC »

In addition, we are in discussions with others for the remainder of the funding required to turn the new hangar into an exciting visitor attraction for South Yorkshire.



So from this it would appear that the answer to a lot of the questions posted earlier are - yes we are making money but none, or very little, is available for the three aircraft themselves, so assume there will soon be another fund raising push along the lines of: "give us more money, or else the aircraft will sit outside and rot, or we will sell to an American company", they cannot use the other favourite one that the engineers will be laid off, as that has already happened.

Xm657
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Xm657 »

Marathon Milkshake wrote:
on land that has now been purchased by the Airport.


Does the land not belong to the airport?



It was owned by the water board for possible extension of the sewage treatment works next door. The airport has bought it back, allegedly on behalf of VTST, though my guess is having got planning permission off the back of the VTST charity the airport know fine well if/when VTST fails they will inherit a lucrative hangar for other tenants. Why the VTST wouldn't have used some of the £millions they have raised to buy the land themselves needs explanation. If they had bought it themselves, if the hangar plan goes wrong, at least they would own somewhere to park 558 rather than relying on the airport for free parking.

GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

The cynic in me can’t help but congratulate them on the impeccable timing of releasing this just before the two biggest aviation events of the year. I’ll believe it when I see it. After all, it was on Dan’s interview that Dr P stated it would have been built by now.

They’re very good a PR, but only time will tell whether this is more “hot air”.

DeltaPapa
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by DeltaPapa »

Where does this opinion that the VTTS have 'raised millions' come from.

Yes over the years they have, but that was spent year on year on running cost to keep 558 in the air. I can't see they have raised millions over the last 3 yrs or so, or have I missed something? They may have managed tens of thousands but I would be surprised if it's more than that.

vulcan558
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by vulcan558 »

DeltaPapa wrote:Where does this opinion that the VTTS have 'raised millions' come from.

Yes over the years they have, but that was spent year on year on running cost to keep 558 in the air. I can't see they have raised millions over the last 3 yrs or so, or have I missed something? They may have managed tens of thousands but I would be surprised if it's more than that.

Then spend your tens of thousands each month on the wage bill.

IgnatiusJReilly
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by IgnatiusJReilly »

I suppose rule 1 applies... don't believe a word VTTS say.
A quick scan through their statement suggests to me that the key bit we should look at would be when they say, "the majority of the costs of constructing the Trust's New Hangar"
Which could mean anything from 51% of the material cost of building the hangar, minus fitting it out, all the way up to 95% of all the funding they could possibly need. I suspect its closer to the former that to the latter.

Otherwise, that VTTS have been bailed out by someone else's unbelievable generosity says everything about that particular patron and nothing about the way VTTS have conducted themselves, these past 3 years.
It also raises the question of why VTTS doesn't have a reserve built up to cover the shortfall - however much that may be. The aircraft has had next to naff all spent on it since retirement. VTTS have just raised the best part of a third of a million pounds just this last month - roughly speaking. Reading that Press Release doesn't suggest to me that there's a lot left in the pot.
Still. I don't suppose anyone they respect will be asking the trustees where all the cash has gone, so stand by for the begging appeal..
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Xm657
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Xm657 »

DeltaPapa wrote:Where does this opinion that the VTTS have 'raised millions' come from.


From the publically available published annual accounts. The last one up to financial year end 2016 revealed 2.2 million raised (this is after flying had finished), of which £750K was spent on wages alone. Figures are from memory but pretty sure it was these amounts give or take a 100K or so. 2016-2017 and 2017-2018 financial years are likely going to me much lower but should still be in the £100Ks.

It's a shame that they managed to get the public to part with millions even after flying had ceased, but it was all consumed by wages and expenses, with nothing going towards the aircraft's future. If they have found a benefactor, its great news, but he/she must be the most gullible person in the world to trust these people with his/her money!!

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MicrolightDriver
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by MicrolightDriver »

Xm657 wrote:..It's a shame that they managed to get the public to part with millions even after flying had ceased, but it was all consumed by wages and expenses, with nothing going towards the aircraft's future. If they have found a benefactor, its great news, but he/she must be the most gullible person in the world to trust these people with his/her money!!


Are we sure about those things? Nothing spent 'towards the aircraft's future'? hmm. Also, to call someone 'gullible' you presumably know the ins and outs of the proposed hangar arrangements currently subject to solicitors' activity?

bernarde
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by bernarde »

More 'gullibles' at DSA today, engine runs.

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sooty655
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by sooty655 »

ExVulcanGC wrote:
In addition, we are in discussions with others for the remainder of the funding required to turn the new hangar into an exciting visitor attraction for South Yorkshire.



So from this it would appear that the answer to a lot of the questions posted earlier are - yes we are making money but none, or very little, is available for the three aircraft themselves, so assume there will soon be another fund raising push along the lines of: "give us more money, or else the aircraft will sit outside and rot, or we will sell to an American company", they cannot use the other favourite one that the engineers will be laid off, as that has already happened.

They could always threaten to lay off the Engineering Director, but no-one would believe it because then they'd have nobody to promote the raffle.

IgnatiusJReilly
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by IgnatiusJReilly »

sooty655 wrote:They could always threaten to lay off the Engineering Director, but no-one would believe it because then they'd have nobody to promote the raffle.

They easily could... they could make him redundant, give him a nice fat severance package, then hire him again as a consultant. Is a win-win for everyone, especially as it helps reduce the headline figure in the accounts for salaries...
I'm not an expert but I'm sure there would also be tax advantages to this approach.
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Brevet Cable
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Brevet Cable »

bernarde wrote:More 'gullibles' at DSA today, engine runs.

Image
Tôi chỉ đặt cái này ở đây để giữ cho người điều hành bận rộn
아직도 숨어있다

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

ExVulcanGC wrote:Beside these un-answered questions:

1. As of this morning, how many people are employed by VTST (or whatever they're called now)?
2. How many of those are full-time, part-time, freelance or on retainers?
3. How many contractors and consultants are currently being used by VTST?
4. If there are contractors/consultants on-board, are any of them directly linked to current/former VTST staff or their families?

I think there are a few more that would be of interest to a lot of people:

1. Have the runs to date proved profitable after costs and wages (for those that still get paid) have been removed?
2. Have the sales of spares and goods proved profitable after costs and wages (for those that still get paid) have been removed?
3. From the profits, if any, how much money is now is available to help house and build a valuable future for XH558?
4. What money is coming in for returning the Canberra to the sky and how much is left in the existing pot, to achieve that aim, if there is still money around for this project how is it being used and who will do the work and where?
5. What is happening to the Swift, is there any financial responsibilities for VTST, if so where is the money coming from and how is it being used?


Still no answers to these perfectly valid and fair questions.

#transparency

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MicrolightDriver
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by MicrolightDriver »

bernarde wrote:More 'gullibles' at DSA today, engine runs.


Were there any serviceability problems with the aircraft / ground equipment?

Xm657
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Xm657 »

MicrolightDriver wrote:
Xm657 wrote:..It's a shame that they managed to get the public to part with millions even after flying had ceased, but it was all consumed by wages and expenses, with nothing going towards the aircraft's future. If they have found a benefactor, its great news, but he/she must be the most gullible person in the world to trust these people with his/her money!!


Are we sure about those things? Nothing spent 'towards the aircraft's future'? hmm. Also, to call someone 'gullible' you presumably know the ins and outs of the proposed hangar arrangements currently subject to solicitors' activity?


Well I would love to be proven wrong MLD, I'm just saying what I see! If VTST have put money aside to guarantee 558 is safe, even if visitor numbers in the coming decades don't meet the costs of a rented hangar, then fair play to them. I can't help feel that the current model of raising cash from a charity called "Vulcan to the Sky" mainly by selling off David Walton's spare parts, sticking names to the aircraft and selling gift shop tatt, is unsustainable; and a two/three aircraft museum at a sewage farm making enough cash to pay for a return on a £3 million hangar, just seems pie in the sky.

My suggestion to the VTST is to spend less on wages (and solicitors), and buy that piece of land themselves, so if nothing else, at least 558 has a home of her own.

Can something good be salvaged from the Doncaster Airport retirement home decision? I don't know, I wish I was gullible enough to believe it could, but I fear its a very uncertain future.

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