Where has XH558 thread gone?

[ExVulcanGC]

XR219: Thanks for the info regarding the Canberra, just an additional question or two, what care and maintenance is being done since the engineers were made redundant, if any who has been doing, or is that Taff and the volunteers. Additionally, what aircraft engineers are you going to use and will they be volunteers or paid staff again.


Look forward to the answers to the other questions when you have the time, permission and information required.

[Skymonster]

I can’t respond to everything that has been asked over the last month immediately, but it looks like the most recent questions have been about the Canberra. I’ll have a go with those for now and do my best to respond to the rest in due course.

Steve

Nice going with the Canberra response Steve, thank you. I think going with the more historically important aircraft was the right choice and I hope progress will be made on its restoration in due course.

Not wishing to let VTST off the hook entirely though I think other concerns expressed here (hangar progress etc) are much more pressing right now.

[Xm657]

Indeed thanks for taking the time to answer regarding the Canberra. I note that you hope the hangar will be ready in 2019 as clearly the aim to open in 2018 is not going to happen now. Is there any concern over how long the Canberra can remain stored outside before it reaches a point uneconomic or impossible to return to flight? I assume, unlike 558, that it is completely dormant: not having power applied or being moved at all? Do the volunteers do anything with it, or is it just a case of leaving it under the tarpaulin and hoping it doesn't corrode too much? If it adds to the motivation, I'll happily join DanO in the naked street run, I'd like to see WK163 in the air one day!

[Seahornet]

... If it adds to the motivation, I'll happily join DanO in the naked street run...

Bare in mind ( ) that a good few folks might be willing to pay NOT to see that...!

[IgnatiusJReilly]

Without wishing to rain on anyones parade, but let's not forget that rather than answer the simple and straightforward questions that were asked weeks ago, we got a thousand words on the Canberra story. Whilst I welcome clarity and an explanation of what happened there, the truth of the matter is that the Trust allowed themselves to be distracted away from what should have been their prime focus, which was to secure the long term future of XH558.
Deflecting the discussion onto the Canberra conveniently distracts attention away from the awkward questions that have been ducked for so long.

For what it's worth, given that the engineering expertise that VTTS had acquired has now been scattered to the winds and no immediate prospect of any restorative work taking place on the Canberra, I'm not sure that airframe is any safer today than it was before the trust bought it. Not so much 'out of the frying pan & into the fire', but more a case of 'one step closer to being a pan'.

[Xm657]

Very true IgnatiusJReilly. While it's good to know the aim is still to restore WK163 to flight, a hangar and a HLF grant need to be secured first which will clearly take time, then there is the small matter of public interest being much less than in the Vulcan, so will funds to operate ever be forthcoming? While capitalising on the expertise gained in restoring and operating 558 by getting another classic bomber into the air was a good idea back in early 2016, it now seems nothing more than an excuse to keep the VttST in existence.

Is the future of 558 best secured by continuing to employ 10 people and raising enough money to pay them, with the assumption that the original plan can be resurrected? The operation is basically on hold until the hangar is built, why not cut back to say Mr Pleming alone, as was the case when the project initially started in the late 90s? If the hangar is built and its not possible to run it with volunteers, no harm employing people in the future as and when they are needed. After all, certified engineers will need to be re-employed if the Canberra is to be restored, and they are harder to come by than people to man the gift shop. Its a weird argument that the developer wont take them seriously unless they already have a large number of paid employees. It should just be a CEO/Project Manager now, sufficient to secure the hangar and oversee it being built over the course of the next year or two. We know from this http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/959/ ... teers.html that there are plenty of volunteers who appear to do all the work anyway.

[Skymonster]

The operation is basically on hold until the hangar is built, why not cut back to say Mr Pleming alone, as was the case when the project initially started in the late 90s?

In my opinion Mr Plumming is part of the problem at the moment, not the solution!

[MicrolightDriver]

Seems to be going relatively well at present : EGRs sold out so far this year, same again for August and already selling well for September's events too.

Just hoping the hangar news is positive ( and in the near future ) so that proper construction work can begin soon.

[Xm657]

The operation is basically on hold until the hangar is built, why not cut back to say Mr Pleming alone, as was the case when the project initially started in the late 90s?

In my opinion Mr Plumming is part of the problem at the moment, not the solution!

Really? I would have thought if they are to secure a hangar he's the most likely person to make it happen, after all he pulled together all the pieces to get her flying. I don't agree with his decision making over the retirement, but since we are stuck with her at Doncaster I can't see anyone else in the management team having the persuasive talents and leadership qualities, to make it happen. Having said that, I don't really know what the others really do or much about them, but they don't seem of the same calibre as Pleming.

[Brevet Cable]

In my opinion Mr Plumming is part of the problem at the moment, not the solution!

Damn right....sack him !!
What about Dr Pleming, though?

[Spiny Norman]

... If it adds to the motivation, I'll happily join DanO in the naked street run...

Bare in mind ( ) that a good few folks might be willing to pay NOT to see that...!

Yes. Perhaps we should start a Canberra To Stay Out of the Skies Trust?

[MiG_Eater]

Dr Pleming and his lot have surprised lots of people before. Admittedly, they really do need to come forward and answer the questions that keep being asked about the Vulcan - but it wouldn't surprise me if the HLF get involved and the Canberra does fly again.

I'm certainly not willing to donate any money until they get seriously transparent about what's going on, and I would *only* donate to a Canberra only appeal... but stranger things have happened.

One wonders if the doom mongers who said the Vulcan would never fly again, instilled such self belief that they will never ever stop; even when all rational hope is gone.

[IgnatiusJReilly]

Seems to be going relatively well at present : EGRs sold out so far this year,

If the success of this project is being measured in terms of static engine runs for small groups of well healed punters, then we need to take a long hard look at ourselves.
No fast taxi events, no kids able to even come and look at the thing, no restoration work now or in the foreseeable future... Care and maintenance limited to activities that can be completed out on the side of the airfield.
That's all before anyone thinks about how the engine runs, staffed & run by volunteers, as far as we can tell, are just paying the salaries of the managers...

[MicrolightDriver]

Seems to be going relatively well at present : EGRs sold out so far this year,

If the success of this project is being measured in terms of static engine runs for small groups of well healed punters, then we need to take a long hard look at ourselves...

I used the word 'relatively' and compared with the much peddled narrative of rotting hulks, sewage farms and general lack of interest then yes, I'd say it's going relatively well.

I realise there are some for whom the cup is always half empty, but we're seeing successful premium events, regular care and maintenance, aircraft serviceability and above all, that people are still interested in visiting XH558. If there's progress with the hangar, the potential is there for a safe and long term future for the aeroplane(s).

[XR219]

ExVulcanGC and XM657,

As per the statement of July 12th, we do indeed hope to have the hangar open in 2019: http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/969/82/Important-Trust-News.html

The aircraft are looked after by Taff and his team of volunteers as required. The Canberra is stored pending restoration, so the only work at the moment is to ensure it remains protected. We are content that in the timescale we are considering before back in a hangar, there should not be any significant impact on the return to flight from being outside. Obviously the Vulcan is kept serviceable. There is a description of an example of some of the work the team do on it here: http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/945/82/Latest-XH558-service-work.html

The restoration of the Canberra will follow the Vulcan model of a professional engineering core, but there is greater scope to use volunteers than with XH558 too, which can happen where possible and desirable.

Steve

[bernarde]

ExVulcanGC and XM657,

The restoration of the Canberra will follow the Vulcan model of a professional engineering core, but there is greater scope to use volunteers than with XH558 too, which can happen where possible and desirable.

Steve

You think the best men in the job, and those who we're suitable who you lot made redundant will want to return to the circus, highly unlikely. I'm surprised Taff has held on as long as he has.

Why can't you answer the questions outlined Steve about VTTS.. someone from VTTS grow some balls and talk to the public who are asking questions and stop hiding from it. Until you do, VTTS don't deserve a penny from the public.

[IgnatiusJReilly]

Why can't you answer the questions outlined Steve about VTTS.. someone from VTTS grow some balls and talk to the public who are asking questions and stop hiding from it.

Getting a straight answer out of VTTS reminds me of the phrase, '.....Like trying to push cooked spaghetti up a cats arse'

[Alanko]

Not so much 'out of the frying pan & into the fire', but more a case of 'one step closer to being a pan'.

Out of the frying pan, into the wok.

VTTST's acquisition of the Canberra was scatterbrained and regrettable. However the Twin Pin that was likewise loitering at Coventry has become a glamping attraction in rural Scotland, so who knows where the Canberra might have ended up. And, for all the bellyaching, the clock has just started on these airframes as they've only just been stored outside for the last year or so. Many Vulcans are probably marking their 30th (if not more) year outdoors in everything the British climate can throw at them. I'm way more worred about East Fortune's Vulcan than 558.

[Seahornet]

ExVulcanGC and XM657,

As per the statement of July 12th, we do indeed hope to have the hangar open in 2019: http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/969/82/Important-Trust-News.html ....

Steve

My inner optimist hopes that both your post and the VTTS statement have suffered from a clumsy and imprecise use of language, and that by 'hope to' you actually mean 'have a vaguely realistic prospect of'.

However, my inner cynic suggests that, rather like Pandora after her disastrous error, it may be that 'hope' is all that remains in your box...

After all, I hope that I'll win the Lottery this week, but I'm not raising the expectations of my friends and family on the strength of it...!

[Skymonster]

As per the statement of July 12th, we do indeed hope to have the hangar open in 2019

That's as maybe but in late 2016 when it became apparent that 558 was to be kicked out of Hangar 3, an update clearly stated that the "hope" was to have a purpose built hangar completed and the public visiting it again by the end of 2017. Given where we are now, I suspect that optimistic projections point to the original target being missed by at least 18 months - and indeed even now there seems to be no firm date for completion of the hangar. Is there any wonder why many people don't have any faith in the "hopes" of the VTTST anymore?

Aircraft to be placed in storage while a new hangar is constructed
The first phase of the plan is to move the Trust’s aircraft and other assets that are currently in Hangar 3 to a temporary storage facility that the airport is providing free-of-charge until the end of April. During that time, the Trust hopes to conclude an agreement to build a new hangar at Doncaster Sheffield Airport, allowing resumption of tours, events, educational visits and engineering activities by the end of 2017. These businesses will then fund the lease of the hangar from the developers until the larger, more ambitious ETNA facility is ready.

[ExVulcanGC]

Another question that has not been answered, although still awaiting full answers to the list of questions asked earlier, is what are the plans for the ETNA programme/building, or is this what the new hangar is now going to be.

http://www.vulcantothesky.org/history/post-flight.html

The way I see it is the plans appear to have gone a tad awry, and the inspiring words in the link above seem to be a bit optimistic in hindsight and possibly un-attainable.

Forgot to add: Are all those companies listed still on board, or have some/any decided to stay out of it now.

[HeyfordDave111]

'free of charge until the end of April'

so are they now paying for the parking of the 1 aircraft and 1 partially built airfix kit on what looks like a pending fire dump?

[Xm657]

I expect the airport is still letting them park for free. It's so frustrating that companys and individuals are so generous giving them facilities, their time and money, but instead of capitalising on that, 10 people sit there taking a wage for doing pretty much nothing.

They are making the same mistake as they did before: keeping people employed they don't currently need but assume they will need in the future. Put the Trust into hibernation and cut the wage bill or by the time the hangar is ready the money will all be gone. There's plenty of volunteers keeping things ticking over in the meantime.

[HeyfordDave111]

Quote........................... "XH558 will be cared for at an adjacent heritage centre from where she will continue to delight visitors of all ages as she does today, with the added excitement of regular fast taxi runs."

[Dan O'Hagan]

Quote.......... "XH558 will be cared for at an adjacent heritage centre from where she will continue to delight visitors of all ages as she does today, with the added excitement of regular fast taxi runs."

These being the "regular fast taxi runs" that the airport had never agreed to?

Once again the politburo answering only the questions they wish to.