Where has XH558 thread gone?

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Neverfuel
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Neverfuel »

Skymonster wrote:While I have been critical of the Trust, I am not anti-Vulcan in any way. However I see this development as 'no progress' because slow taxi has never been what VTTST has been aiming for - it has been about fast taxi runs and I don't think a slow taxi in any way is indicative of it being allowed on the runway to undertake the Trust's avowed intent. In any case it really doesn't matter. Maybe one day it will fast taxi down the runway. And maybe it will happen repetitively. But one day - maybe not soon, but eventually - I think there will be a loud bang, and if that causes Mr. TUI's or Mr. FlyBe aircraft to divert or be delayed and they have to pay compensation to their customers, it will be game over for good. In relality what I am trying to say is that a runway at a commercial airport is no place for volunteers to be playing with planes - and ultimately I believe there will be no getting away from that.


I’d say that you are talking absolute crap sir - the airport must have a great deal of trust in the people now Working on 558, to let them taxi in the first place. “Loud bang” - maybe you should explain yourself. I think the volunteers are doing a great job and I very much look forward to you having to eat your negative words.

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MicrolightDriver
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by MicrolightDriver »

Neverfuel wrote: I think the volunteers are doing a great job...


Well we certainly appear to have another event today where the aircraft has operated as expected and on cue.

That does rather fly in the face of those peddling the 'rotting hulk' storyline.

smiler
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by smiler »

Whatever you think I am proud of what we have achieved today with our volunteers, it has taken a year or so to get the respect of the airport in what we do and for that I am grateful. Long may the support of the airport continue.

Taff

IgnatiusJReilly
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by IgnatiusJReilly »

Oh Neverfuel, how we've missed you these past months...

Regarding the aircrafts movements... I note the liberal use of the term 'volunteers'... given that everything positive that the trust has achieved these past few years has been undertaken by volunteers... (and I include the planning permission in that as the companies that did the design work, did so for free, if my understanding is correct), it really makes you wonder quite why so much money is still being spent on 'management'

and computers.
Eccentric, idealistic, and creative, sometimes to the point of delusion..

Neverfuel
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Neverfuel »

IgnatiusJReilly wrote:Oh Neverfuel, how we've missed you these past months...

Regarding the aircrafts movements... I note the liberal use of the term 'volunteers'... given that everything positive that the trust has achieved these past few years has been undertaken by volunteers... (and I include the planning permission in that as the companies that did the design work, did so for free, if my understanding is correct), it really makes you wonder quite why so much money is still being spent on 'management'

and computers.


Don’t worry - I keep an eye on you - but I’m bored with all negative on here. I’m quite surprised that maybe a few more people are not coming forward to praise the progress of the volunteers, and the superb work Taff has done to get them to this stage in such a short space of time.I guess they don’t just do “engineering” for the ground runs but also carry out “fixing” of any snags that occur - to allow the ground runs to happen, possibly being questioned by the public on Vulcan history etc as well. You might have an issue with the management, but obviously-THEY DONT, or we have not heard it from any of them,(and I’m sure they might have let slip on some website, that we are all watching).

So why don’t you naysayers do this - keep your negative opinions to yourself, Doncaster seems to be working out, allowing taxi runs and obviously the new hangar moving forward. I get the feelin that FAST TAXI runs are not not too far away. So finish with the crap - I’m sure your blood pressure will be positively reduced.

Rgds

bernarde
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by bernarde »

Neverfuel wrote:
IgnatiusJReilly wrote:Oh Neverfuel, how we've missed you these past months...

Regarding the aircrafts movements... I note the liberal use of the term 'volunteers'... given that everything positive that the trust has achieved these past few years has been undertaken by volunteers... (and I include the planning permission in that as the companies that did the design work, did so for free, if my understanding is correct), it really makes you wonder quite why so much money is still being spent on 'management'

and computers.


Don’t worry - I keep an eye on you - but I’m bored with all negative on here. I’m quite surprised that maybe a few more people are not coming forward to praise the progress of the volunteers, and the superb work Taff has done to get them to this stage in such a short space of time.I guess they don’t just do “engineering” for the ground runs but also carry out “fixing” of any snags that occur - to allow the ground runs to happen, possibly being questioned by the public on Vulcan history etc as well. You might have an issue with the management, but obviously-THEY DONT, or we have not heard it from any of them,(and I’m sure they might have let slip on some website, that we are all watching).

So why don’t you naysayers do this - keep your negative opinions to yourself, Doncaster seems to be working out, allowing taxi runs and obviously the new hangar moving forward. I get the feelin that FAST TAXI runs are not not too far away. So finish with the crap - I’m sure your blood pressure will be positively reduced.

Rgds


Come on trotter, you can do better then this.. thumbs up however for public engagement. Love how you think you can control the negativity on here - so you've spoken, thats it, no more negativity and all the lambs will grow fluffy white coats and the unicorns will have nice shiny horns. Time to wake up and smell the coffee. Taff does it because he paid to do it.

One thing wrong with your statement, you say taxi runs? Not once has it taxxied on its own steam in the past 2 years. :clown: :clown:

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Abbo46
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Abbo46 »

Nice to see your paying attention.. :roll:

Neverfuel
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Neverfuel »

bernarde wrote:
Neverfuel wrote:
IgnatiusJReilly wrote:Oh Neverfuel, how we've missed you these past months...

Regarding the aircrafts movements... I note the liberal use of the term 'volunteers'... given that everything positive that the trust has achieved these past few years has been undertaken by volunteers... (and I include the planning permission in that as the companies that did the design work, did so for free, if my understanding is correct), it really makes you wonder quite why so much money is still being spent on 'management'

and computers.


Don’t worry - I keep an eye on you - but I’m bored with all negative on here. I’m quite surprised that maybe a few more people are not coming forward to praise the progress of the volunteers, and the superb work Taff has done to get them to this stage in such a short space of time.I guess they don’t just do “engineering” for the ground runs but also carry out “fixing” of any snags that occur - to allow the ground runs to happen, possibly being questioned by the public on Vulcan history etc as well. You might have an issue with the management, but obviously-THEY DONT, or we have not heard it from any of them,(and I’m sure they might have let slip on some website, that we are all watching).

So why don’t you naysayers do this - keep your negative opinions to yourself, Doncaster seems to be working out, allowing taxi runs and obviously the new hangar moving forward. I get the feelin that FAST TAXI runs are not not too far away. So finish with the crap - I’m sure your blood pressure will be positively reduced.

Rgds


Come on trotter, you can do better then this.. thumbs up however for public engagement. Love how you think you can control the negativity on here - so you've spoken, thats it, no more negativity and all the lambs will grow fluffy white coats and the unicorns will have nice shiny horns. Time to wake up and smell the coffee. Taff does it because he paid to do it.

One thing wrong with your statement, you say taxi runs? Not once has it taxxied on its own steam in the past 2 years. :clown: :clown:


Bernarde - best you check your facts - you are wrong on at least 6 points in your post - as usual you just blast out your incorrect opinion - just like DOh! Please find the facts out before you profess to know what you are talking about. And as for waking up and smelling the coffee - maybe you should start to smell the **** that you are shovelling buddy.

Rgds

Zd241
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Zd241 »

Neverfuel, nice to see you're back after being found out all those months back. Lets see how long it is before you start making contradictory statements again....

Anyway....

The volunteers should be praised for there hard work, after all volunteers are the backbone of historic aircraft preservation up and down the country. Places like Bruntingthorpe and Elvington wouldnt exsist without them. Taff does a good job, theres no doubt.

While I agree a short taxi is a step forward, its harldy a huge leep. Get yourself to Brunty next weekend and for 20 quid you'll get to see loads fast taxi..... imagine that! All on a shoestring budget to boot!

As for the negativity, maybe if the trust came out and started being more transparent and actually engaging with the public across all forums and platforms, people might start back from criticising. Instead they either ignore the questions and worse delete them!

Sadly the trust appears to make millions yet have nothing to show for it. Face facts, The aircraft is not accessible to the general public unless you have enough spare cash to go to a ground run and have no children.

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flashman8
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by flashman8 »

The trust never have been and never will be transparent, (remember the incident where she got diverted to Coningsby with an undercarriage problem, they refused to say what the issue was) they work best behind closed doors and only communicate when they need money for `the peoples airplane`.

As far as a fast taxi goes, it will never happen where she is now.
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ExVulcanGC
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by ExVulcanGC »

As far as a fast taxi goes, it will never happen where she is now.


I am now of the belief that as long as the hangar build goes to the stated plan, and the Airport management continue to support VTST, as it is stated they do, then it is entirely possible that a fast taxi will be permitted, how often, what times, what cost and who will get access is another matter, in other words, watch this space, they have managed to surprise in the past.


As for:


As for the negativity, maybe if the trust came out and started being more transparent and actually engaging with the public across all forums and platforms, people might start back from criticising. Instead they either ignore the questions and worse delete them!



I have also have a similar view, but again, despite this they still get money and do still get things done, but it still hurts the bottom line, and will possibly get worse under the current circumstances if it continues. Those on the inside who just come on here and make some of the comments they are making just prove the point and once again not doing themselves/VTST any favours, but if you think that methodology works now, when it was this approach/attitude, and worse, that drove me and lots of others away years ago then please do continue, bit like biting the hand that feeds you.

Skymonster
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Skymonster »

Neverfuel wrote:Don’t worry - I keep an eye on you - but I’m bored with all negative on here...
So why don’t you naysayers do this - keep your negative opinions to yourself

Oh here we go again - as soon as things are said that those with rose tinted glasses don't like, they immediately start trying to tell those with different views to go away, to stifle the debate. Last time I checked, UKAR was thankfully still a forum open to opinions from all sides of the spectrum, unlike some other channels where it would reputedly seem that views counter to 'the future is bright' are removed.

Like you I get bored - but I get bored with the regular 'things are going well' sentiments... It's three years since the aircraft was grounded and a fast taxi run hasn't happened yet. We're eight months into 2018 and to all intents and purposes not one spade has been put in the ground to actually build the hangar which the Trust originally said it hoped would be completed by the end of 2017 - so it is going to be at least 18 months behind the projections originally put forward. And as yet the financing of it appears not to be secure - something the Trust said was being worked on well before planning permission was granted at the end of last year. When do the happy-slappy folks accept that many statements made by the Trust since the aircraft was grounded have been proven to be hopelessly optimistic?

So no I - like a few others I hope - won't stop posting opinions that diverge from the optimistic. If you call that negativity and you're bored with it why don't you ignore this forum?

Neverfuel wrote: “Loud bang” - maybe you should explain yourself.

I thought I'd been most clear. I accept the team doing the work now has to play the hand it has been dealt, but I do not believe that activities such as running a preserved Vulcan up and down a runway mix well with the ongoing activities at a busy commercial airport. Partly because of the access limitations, but more importantly because of the impact that could be caused to airline operations if anything, even something minor, goes wrong. Maybe the fast taxi runs will start to happen. But I suspect that eventually, one day, there will be a hitch - maybe silica bags in the engine intakes, maybe something as trivial as a burst tyre. That day - the day the Vulcan is stuck on the runway and a commercial flight is delayed or has to divert - I believe it will be game over because the airlines will not tolerate the expense and inconvenience. For what it's worth, my observations are in no way a criticism of the volunteers or the quality work that they do, but rather a reflection on the realities of conducting non-essential activities on a strip of tarmac that businesses rely on to make money, and a most unfortunate but foreseeable ramification of the management decision to put XH558 at DSA in the first place.

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CJS
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by CJS »

Crikey Neverfuel, you really only have one side of the bed don't you?

It's been said many a time, but one of the most positive things about this thread is (rather poetically) the negativity. It's not happening anywhere else and at least that means the, ahem, sterling and entirely without fault team at VTTS (see what I did there...) are being questioned on important matters, even if they're not bothering to reply.

Or would you rather no-one tried to query those who are in charge of the aircraft you so obviously adore? :dunno:
With just the slightest bit of finesse, I might have made a little less mess.

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richw_82
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by richw_82 »

In posting on this topic I haven't been free with praise, and I'm still not entirely confident in the Trustees and management. But thats my opinion, and pretty much irrelevant.

However I look at it though I can't ignore the fact the aircraft has been taxied; even though it was slowly. Fair play to the volunteers in getting that out of XH558, it is an achievement. We took a similar bunch of volunteers, again with a big aircraft, on an airport and did the same - and making the aeroplane move under power is the relatively easy bit. Its harder than it appears to get everybody letting you do what you know you can.

Satisfying those in charge that the aircraft is fit to do it after standing so long, that the work done by the volunteers is such a standard that it can be relied on, making sure any crew requirements are met, or safety and insurance requirements too - all a headache. Then carrying it out knowing that its going to be scrutinised closely and used as the initial benchmark to go further... effectively the first step in building new trust in what you're doing now.

Well done. Regroup, and do it again. Soon.

Rich
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Skymonster
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Skymonster »

richw_82 wrote:However I look at it though I can't ignore the fact the aircraft has been taxied; even though it was slowly. Fair play to the volunteers in getting that out of XH558, it is an achievement.


But it was done two years ago, and back then it was a fast taxi run not a slow one:
Vulcan to the Sky website wrote:On October 6th 2016, we towed XH558 out of her hangar, fired up her four Olympus jets and stretched her legs with a first run down the runway in just under a year, slowing down with a nose-up high drag attitude... Unfortunately, for pragmatic safety reasons, the airport asked us not to announce the taxi run in advance, as they felt the safety case required at least one trial run.

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by JetMan »

Skymonster wrote:
richw_82 wrote:However I look at it though I can't ignore the fact the aircraft has been taxied; even though it was slowly. Fair play to the volunteers in getting that out of XH558, it is an achievement.


But it was done two years ago, and back then it was a fast taxi run not a slow one:
Vulcan to the Sky website wrote:On October 6th 2016, we towed XH558 out of her hangar, fired up her four Olympus jets and stretched her legs with a first run down the runway in just under a year, slowing down with a nose-up high drag attitude... Unfortunately, for pragmatic safety reasons, the airport asked us not to announce the taxi run in advance, as they felt the safety case required at least one trial run.

But at that time, the aircraft was hangared and was still being maintained by the engineering team...

A lot has changed since then, and I’m pretty sure that the airport won’t have just said “pick up where you left off”... They will want assurances and proof that the volunteers have been trained in a way that allows them to operate the aircraft just as safely as the engineering team did, and as a result of yesterday’s slow taxi, I’m sure that a fast taxi won’t be far away now. It has proved to the airport that the aircraft is still being correctly maintained and if you were in charge of airfield operations, would you say to a volunteer team with relatively little experience that they can go straight into taxiing? No, you’d want assurances that it will be done correctly and safely, exactly as has been done by them over the past couple of years.

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ericbee123
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by ericbee123 »

If XH558 is a personal project for a few volunteers to have private engine runs and to taxy around, announcing they have successfully done them, after they have successfully done them, then say this is the purpose of XH558.

I’m also pretty confident they will do a fast taxy at some time and we will all hear about it after the fact. Well done.

That’s your “payment” for volunteering. To be one of the privileged to see it happen because you gave your time, for free, to make it happen.

I don’t have a problem with you volunteers having XH558 as a plaything you play with, you put the hours in, enjoy.

It’s not The People’s Vulcan in that case, it’s your private toy.

If the plan is that Doncaster will allow you to sell tickets and have thousands at a fast taxy that you advertise in advance - then this sounds more like The Peoples’s Vulcan.
Disclaimer-I have spell/grammar checked this post, it may still contain mistakes that might cause offence.

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richw_82
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by richw_82 »

I would expect the first couple of runs to be done without public knowledge or with very limited numbers. Our first attempt was shortly after the airport closed for the day so there was next to no-one about; and a good thing too as we lost brake pressure. The second time we got the public all out to see, and had to cancel after a fuel priming pump seal split and wouldn't stop dumping fuel. Third time was the charm. Would I rather have done that second one privately? Hell yes! - it was no fun apologising for the aircraft's disappointing performance to a couple of hundred people.

If they do a few tests then invite the public to watch, great stuff. If not, then I'll get a bit suspiscious.
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JetMan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by JetMan »

richw_82 wrote:I would expect the first couple of runs to be done without public knowledge or with very limited numbers. Our first attempt was shortly after the airport closed for the day so there was next to no-one about; and a good thing too as we lost brake pressure. The second time we got the public all out to see, and had to cancel after a fuel priming pump seal split and wouldn't stop dumping fuel. Third time was the charm. Would I rather have done that second one privately? Hell yes! - it was no fun apologising for the aircraft's disappointing performance to a couple of hundred people.

I think Rich has absolutely hit it on the head with this. Obviously he has an insight into what it takes to run and taxi a heritage aircraft (granted there are a few differences between a Shackleton and a Vulcan), but if we all think back to when the Vulcan was flying, the first ground run and first couple of flights of the year were always kept secret for the exact reasons rich has said above - in case something goes wrong! It was exactly the same when the volunteer crew took over for the engine runs. An idle run on the stand, followed by a full ground run in the running bay before opening them to the public. Why should they treat taxiing any differently? A couple of slow taxis, before one/two fast taxis before finally public taxi runs in addition to the ground runs... There’s no benefit in jumping into things, as Rich has said above, If something goes wrong, you’ve got a lot of disappointed viewers on your hands and egg on your face!

vulcan558
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by vulcan558 »

Positive that the volunteers have got to this stage.
Negative, 3 years from last flight and just starting to walk again is crap.

Would she being doing this 3years on had she been landed where the majority wanted her to go.
Of course not, she would be the star item in front of a big crowd at the open day next week. Giveing the public a great full day out,
This being The case from day one of last flight. EGR runs done at the weekends open to the public.

Im sure if Taff was honest, he would have preferred Brunti instead of the mess and uncertainty that bestows the present situation.

Xm657
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Xm657 »

Well great news, taking the EGR to the next level with a slow speed taxi run. So basically: the VttST volunteers are about at the same stage now as the VRT volunteers were at Southend around 2 to 3 years ago. The next milestone I think, as the VRT achieved last Christmas, would be a non-public medium speed run on the main runway.

But before the likes of Neverfuel, Mightlightdriver and XR219 congratulate themselves too much, lets remember it's volunteers who have done this, not the millions of pounds that have been through the books since 2015. Its not negative or naysaying to protest when something wrong seems to be happening, its called living in a free society where people are able to speak their mind. Well done to all involved in the taxi run, but lets remember the VRT do this for less than your annual IT budget! So don't come on here proclaiming that a slow speed taxi run of an aircraft that is in almost airworthy condition is justification for the paid staff and the lost £millions. Let it be a model for what the VttST should now be: a fully, or almost fully, volunteer organisation, dedicated to preserving and demostrating XH558 to future generations.

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by wezgulf3 »

I’m guessing a link to the webcam 4K, UHD 3D surround sound video of XH558 taxiing is available online, which of course would help explain the 30k IT bill?!?

Wes...

ExVulcanGC
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by ExVulcanGC »

I’m guessing a link to the webcam 4K, UHD 3D surround sound video of XH558 taxiing is available online, which of course would help explain the 30k IT bill?!?


I am surprised they have not recorded it, but if they have one would assume it will only be available at some exorbitant price, or to the entitled few, to enjoy the not quite yet again 'Peoples Aircraft' :shock:

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by ExVulcanGC »

Decided to have a check on YouTube to check if the latest engine run and taxi back had been posted and found these:

First taxi check a year ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CXKE17JzHI

Engine runs in no particular order:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXvo4Xdag2E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcI1Zl7cA-I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeVu_DEtmr0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3kFxEVXPfY

IgnatiusJReilly
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by IgnatiusJReilly »

ExVulcanGC wrote:Decided to have a check on YouTube to check if the latest engine run and taxi back had been posted and found these:
First taxi check a year ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CXKE17JzHI


My guess is that that video is closer to 2 years old. For a start, it's coming out of hangar (#3 I presume) and the video itself was only uploaded in Dec 16.
Interesting discussion regarding the significance of a private taxi... I know Steve Liddle, before he ran away, had said that regular taxi events wouldn't happen until they were established in the new built hangar. Which if true, does make fannying around with XH558 now seem more like an excuse for the boys to play with the toys than any serious progression towards regular, public, fast taxying

That all aside, as & when they do start taxi activities it'd be interesting to know what they think the market price would be for admission.
I don't think you can use the current engine run pricing as any kind of benchmark - which would suggest the price would need to be significantly lower. But that would mean the numbers attending would need to seriously increase (which is a good thing). But given the current operating model, how would they take a large number of people airside? and what about kids?
And what about fence huggers watching for free? The trust would need to advertise heavily to attract the punters but we know the airport is averse to large crowds of freeloaders descending upon the perimeter.
As always with VTTS, none of what they do makes a lot of sense and really, a bit of open dialogue would go a long, long way. Quite why their thinking and planning for fast taxying is a state secret is beyond my comprehension. Fair enough if they were a private organisation, but they're absolutely not.
Eccentric, idealistic, and creative, sometimes to the point of delusion..

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