Where has XH558 thread gone?

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aviodromefriend
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by aviodromefriend »

Marka1967 wrote:I very much doubt the airframe would be fit for anything other than static display if its dismantled and moved by road. Take a look at Vulcans in camera and look at XL318 being dismantled for road transport you have to split the main fuselage section which would compromise the structural integrity without doubt.
During construction all Vulcans were moved in big bits by road, then assembled and even came out of that assembly in an airworthy condition. In newsletters from the Trust during the flying days there were a few pictures related to these transports.
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speedbird2639
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by speedbird2639 »

I suspect the 'pretentious and daft' legacy idea was a box ticking exercise to get the money from the National Lottery - I very much doubt they would have received the original HLF funding if that hadn't been in place. I don't doubt that having been coerced into doing it they did then later buy into the idea that it would extend their involvement with and the public's interest in XH558.

I think the bit they over estimated was how many people would be interested in a grounded Vulcan with limited public access. They obviously thought the figure would be much higher but when you can go to places like Wellesbourne every Saturday and have cockpit tours for the price of a donation then its difficult to see what the USP would be at Doncaster.

Undoubtedly more should have been done whilst XH558 was still flying to get the 2nd stage of the project up and running so there was as seamless a transition from flying to grounded as possible. If people had been able to visit XH558 in the weeks and months after flying ceased then they may have maintained more engagement with the public but I suspect that moment is largely passed now. Keeping such a large payroll after flying ceased was clearly unnecessary when at least two operations have proved you can maintain a ground running Vulcan with a small group of enthusiastic volunteers.

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

aviodromefriend wrote:
Marka1967 wrote:I very much doubt the airframe would be fit for anything other than static display if its dismantled and moved by road. Take a look at Vulcans in camera and look at XL318 being dismantled for road transport you have to split the main fuselage section which would compromise the structural integrity without doubt.
During construction all Vulcans were moved in big bits by road, then assembled and even came out of that assembly in an airworthy condition. In newsletters from the Trust during the flying days there were a few pictures related to these transports.


Roads were quite different in the 1950s and 1960s, as was the available, specialised transportation and expertise. A road move, keeping it in even taxiable condition would surely be prohibitively expensive.

The thing should never have been grounded at Doncaster. It was quite plain to anyone with half a brain that landing there, with no hope of leaving was signing the airframe's death warrant. It should have been flown out, while it was still able to be. It's been festering in the middle of a sh*t-farm for the past year, so even the remotest possibility of that has long gone.

Pleming and Edmondson should hang their heads for what they have done.

What was, until 2015, a great example of what CAN be achieved in the face of all hurdles, the actions of VTTS since have been a stain on the preservation movement.

I don't especially care what becomes of 558 now, I think that fate is sealed, but the potentially airworthy Canberra and the on-loan rare Swift need saving from those imbeciles.

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Spotty_Jag
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Spotty_Jag »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:I don't especially care what becomes of 558 now, I think that fate is sealed, but the potentially airworthy Canberra and the on-loan rare Swift need saving from those imbeciles.

From the grapevine I hear the owner of the Swift isn't too happy with the despicable manner in which VTTS have treated their aircraft. :snack:

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Marka1967 »

aviodromefriend wrote:
Marka1967 wrote:I very much doubt the airframe would be fit for anything other than static display if its dismantled and moved by road. Take a look at Vulcans in camera and look at XL318 being dismantled for road transport you have to split the main fuselage section which would compromise the structural integrity without doubt.
During construction all Vulcans were moved in big bits by road, then assembled and even came out of that assembly in an airworthy condition. In newsletters from the Trust during the flying days there were a few pictures related to these transports.

Indeed big chunks were moved between Chadderton and Woodford and the route had folding lamp posts and removable road signs etc and of course the aircraft's construction was of national importance at the time of the cold war so things got done. They moved the main fuselage as one unit I don't think you could do it now with all the road furniture we have on our roads the cost would be huge.

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aviodromefriend
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by aviodromefriend »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Roads were quite different in the 1950s and 1960s, as was the available, specialised transportation and expertise. A road move, keeping it in even taxiable condition would surely be prohibitively expensive.
I would say the roads might be a bit wider than in the 50s or 60s, so not less space to move. "All" you need is to close the roads during the time the transport is moving over a certain section, and temporarily remove traffic lights and signs that are blocking the space you need. These guys have done it in the quite recently past with 747s (including one of the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft) so I wouldn't rule out to quickly they can manage a much smaller Vulcan. And about costs, one of these was crowdfunded by the (far less aviation-minded) Dutch public, so a rescue action for this Vulcan could be pulled off by the British public, all needed is that VTTS came to the conclusion themselves that the aircraft is better off now without Pleming/Edmondson cs than with them.
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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Amid all this, what remains truly astounding and unfathomable is that there are STILL people earning money from an aeroplane that's not flown for three years and has spent the last year rotting out in the middle of a sewage farm.

I'm not sure what's worse, the fact that there are still people taking a salary (reduced, part-time or whatever), or the idiocy of those who continue to donate?

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Xm657 »

On the subject of taxi runs. Didn't someone win a competition for a taxi run with Martin Withers, it was part of a big fund raising lottery back in 2015 I think? I presume the lucky winner is still waiting. To run a lottery where the prize cannot be delivered bears on the fraudulent I'd say.

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Xm657 wrote:On the subject of taxi runs. Didn't someone win a competition for a taxi run with Martin Withers, it was part of a big fund raising lottery back in 2015 I think? I presume the lucky winner is still waiting. To run a lottery where the prize cannot be delivered bears on the fraudulent I'd say.


Didn't this get changed to a flight in a Spitfire?

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sooty655
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by sooty655 »

I see we are getting lots of posts again regarding Vulcans being moved around by road in bits and then assembled. Yes, it happened. But there are a few details that seem to be forgotten. Each major assembly was built in a jig, and moved in that jig. The jigs no longer exist. Un-jigged airframe sections distort as they are lifted and moved about, and I dread to think how much distortion would occur trying to transport un-jigged sections of an old airframe.

Add to that the fact that none of the systems which were installed on final assembly respected the break joints between the major sections, and you would be looking at a project bigger than the original restoration to flight. I doubt whether even the 558 faithful would be up for the level of fundraising required, just to produce at best a taxiable airframe when other examples already exist.

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by NAM Updater »

With all due respect un-jigged airframes are moved around almost every day of the week by the services, private collectors and countless museums across the UK - that includes Nimrod & VC10 airframes to RAF Cosford here's a link to the VC10 move:
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/galleries/ ... ford-2015/

Yes it would be costly, but IMHO not impossible!
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Xm657 »

Thanks for the sooty655. May I ask, is moving 655 by road transport something 655Maps has ever looked into seriously, with the trouble at Wellesbourne?

I think to disassemble, move and assemble something that could move slowly under her own power would be possible but very expensive. The frustration is VttST let each opportunity pass them by. They could have easily have made the last flight to Bruntingthorpe, when Doncaster didn't turn out as planned, a ferry flight might have been possible, and while there was still massive public interest funding for road transport might be achievable. But they will wait until all avenues are closed, so she will sadly end her days at Doncaster.

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Brevet Cable »

Oh, goody......'VTST bingo' again.....so that's the 'B' place, moving it, 'rotting' & wages -- what's left for a full house? :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed:

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by IgnatiusJReilly »

NAM Updater wrote:With all due respect un-jigged airframes are moved around almost every day of the week by the services, private collectors and countless museums across the UK......
Yes it would be costly, but IMHO not impossible!


Especially if we're only going to bother moving the nose section.....
Dan's prediction looking more likely as each (pay) day passes.


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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by IgnatiusJReilly »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:I'm not sure what's worse, the fact that there are still people taking a salary (reduced, part-time or whatever), or the idiocy of those who continue to donate?


What I found more disturbing was the sheer effort and determination involved in making a complaint to the Charity Commission.
I've seen other charities suspended for taking less money and doing more work to further their objectives and yet the hoops you have to jump through to submit a complaint look designed to make it as difficult as possible to shine a torch on charities failing to deliver their promises.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Xm657 »

Brevet Cable wrote:Oh, goody......'VTST bingo' again.....so that's the 'B' place, moving it, 'rotting' & wages -- what's left for a full house? :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed: :tumbleweed:



And someone pointing out the futility and repetition of this thread. HOUSE!!

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by vulcan558 »

Found this on twitter, the Victor in the Hangar at Bruntingthorpes, looks better then the sewage works.
https://mobile.twitter.com/vulcantothes ... 40/video/1

What is hard to get one's head around is this was a xh558 celebration etc,
Why was this not held at Doncaster.

Why have a 558 day with a Victor at Bruntingthorpes.
Last edited by vulcan558 on Sun 25 Mar 2018, 9:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

Marka1967 wrote:I very much doubt the airframe would be fit for anything other than static display if its dismantled and moved by road.


I don't believe that is true (despite what has been said from Doncaster). Also, in its current predicament and situation, the scenario you describe is actually an improvement.

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

NAM Updater wrote:With all due respect un-jigged airframes are moved around almost every day of the week by the services, private collectors and countless museums across the UK - that includes Nimrod & VC10 airframes to RAF Cosford here's a link to the VC10 move:
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/galleries/ ... ford-2015/

Yes it would be costly, but IMHO not impossible!


Where exactly did they move that VC10 from?

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by NAM Updater »

As I recall Bruntingthorpe & as confirmed here https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/cosford/wh ... o-cosford/

From memory the Nimrod moved to Cosford from Kemble.

I was personally involved in planning the possible road move of a Nimrod R1 from Waddington to Newark, which we eventually pulled out of and which was widely discussed and reported about these parts!
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by XR219 »

vulcan558 wrote:How did the Bruntingthorpes event go today.


It went well as far as I could tell - lots of interest and engagement, long after the speakers had finished talking. I enjoyed it anyway! The Victor did look great in the hangar, but was due to go back outside afterwards. A good reminder of how imposing and impressive a V-bomber can be.
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sooty655
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by sooty655 »

NAM Updater wrote:With all due respect un-jigged airframes are moved around almost every day of the week by the services, private collectors and countless museums across the UK - that includes Nimrod & VC10 airframes to RAF Cosford here's a link to the VC10 move:
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/galleries/ ... ford-2015/

Yes it would be costly, but IMHO not impossible!

I'm not suggesting it wouldn't be possible, Howard. It has been done with a Vulcan many years ago when XL318 was moved to Hendon. My point is that the return doesn't justify the cost. The dreamers seem to think a fast-taxiable airframe could be achieved. My view is that at the very best it would be slow-taxiable and much more likely static, so the effort and expenditure would simply replicate what already exists elsewhere. Fundraising at the level required for the move to achieve another museum exhibit or gate guardian is unlikely to succeed IMHO.

Xm657 wrote:Thanks for the sooty655. May I ask, is moving 655 by road transport something 655Maps has ever looked into seriously, with the trouble at Wellesbourne?

No, we haven't looked at it. We remain confident of Wellesbourne's future, but in any event we don't own the airframe.

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aviodromefriend
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by aviodromefriend »

XR219 wrote:The Victor did look great in the hangar, but was due to go back outside afterwards.
Don't remember from which account it came, but I've seen a clip on Twitter from the Victor being pulled out of the hanger indeed.

Edit: the hanger changed into hangar bit at UKAR is still working as advertised, I see. What if we ever have a thread about hotels and someone asks if one provides that handy things to hang your clothes on?
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

sooty655 wrote:My point is that the return doesn't justify the cost. The dreamers seem to think a fast-taxiable airframe could be achieved. My view is that at the very best it would be slow-taxiable and much more likely static, so the effort and expenditure would simply replicate what already exists elsewhere. Fundraising at the level required for the move to achieve another museum exhibit or gate guardian is unlikely to succeed IMHO.


I fear you are entirely correct.

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by HeyfordDave111 »

But even as a static example at Brunty or Elvington it would allow people to go and see her everyday the respective museums were open at a realistic price per person, and include way more than 2 other airframes.
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